Where to buy a really GOOD roadmap of France
#41
I doubt paper maps show places which digital maps don't show.
There are few if any "off the beaten track" places left which hasn't been discovered by anyone and everyone, especially through online sources. In fact there are whole travel books written about these lesser known places.
That's another thing, some have moved on from travel guide books, able to find comparable info. online.
There are few if any "off the beaten track" places left which hasn't been discovered by anyone and everyone, especially through online sources. In fact there are whole travel books written about these lesser known places.
That's another thing, some have moved on from travel guide books, able to find comparable info. online.
If you say so, but if it were true we who write for travel websites would have nothing unique to write about, but in fact there's plenty.
#42
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First, paper maps, digital maps, and GPS are not mutually exclusive.
One quick glance on a paper map can show me if I am passing by a dolmen or other noteworthy site. Or perhaps a notable viewpoint is slightly out of my way. You can do both: advance planning and make spur of the moment decisions. When I rely solely on GPS as I drive, I am less likely to be aware of my relationship to what is not on the screen.
One quick glance on a paper map can show me if I am passing by a dolmen or other noteworthy site. Or perhaps a notable viewpoint is slightly out of my way. You can do both: advance planning and make spur of the moment decisions. When I rely solely on GPS as I drive, I am less likely to be aware of my relationship to what is not on the screen.
#43
"First, paper maps, digital maps, and GPS are not mutually exclusive."
True.
"When I rely solely on GPS as I drive, I am less likely to be aware of my relationship to what is not on the screen."
Also true. And seems an obvious conclusion but I guess not to everyone.
Adding to that, I've been thinking during this thread that if people only knew those off the GPS sights were there they'd want to go. It occurs to me now, so obvious but I get all tunnel-visioned, that just because I want to know about all the possibilities doesn't mean everyone does and that planning to visit the usual suspects is as legitimate a way to travel as seeking out the lesser known spots. Just because I like a thing doesn't mean everyone should. That's a good thing for all of us.
True.
"When I rely solely on GPS as I drive, I am less likely to be aware of my relationship to what is not on the screen."
Also true. And seems an obvious conclusion but I guess not to everyone.
Adding to that, I've been thinking during this thread that if people only knew those off the GPS sights were there they'd want to go. It occurs to me now, so obvious but I get all tunnel-visioned, that just because I want to know about all the possibilities doesn't mean everyone does and that planning to visit the usual suspects is as legitimate a way to travel as seeking out the lesser known spots. Just because I like a thing doesn't mean everyone should. That's a good thing for all of us.
Last edited by MmePerdu; Oct 12th, 2022 at 11:59 AM.
#44
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OK, maybe I don't know how much more information road atlases have.
I've mostly used AAA maps which show the streets and highways but not so much POIs.
Google Maps have really improved almost every year with POIs. You get reviews of millions and you have to sort through the noise but you have that and forums like this all over the web for discovery of places.
Again it's doubtful some paper maps or road atlases are better for discovery especially when a lot of the people who use them are sharing discoveries on forums like this one.
I've mostly used AAA maps which show the streets and highways but not so much POIs.
Google Maps have really improved almost every year with POIs. You get reviews of millions and you have to sort through the noise but you have that and forums like this all over the web for discovery of places.
Again it's doubtful some paper maps or road atlases are better for discovery especially when a lot of the people who use them are sharing discoveries on forums like this one.
#45
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A detailed Michelin map of France or any part of thereof will show monasteries, religious buildings, wooden churches, castles, rock carvings, dolmens, ruins, historic homes, dams, caves, windmills, open air museums, other antiquities, viewpoints, especially scenic routes, lighthouses, long distance footpaths, mountain huts, cycle paths, tourist trains, even "other curiosities" that are none of the above. There is also road gradation and mountain passes with altitude.
All of ye olde internet is wonderful for planning purposes, but when you are actually on the road having a detailed map opens up your understanding of what's around you in the moment. It did save me while driving in Armenia last year, for which Google Maps and internet advice sometimes got us in serious trouble.
All of ye olde internet is wonderful for planning purposes, but when you are actually on the road having a detailed map opens up your understanding of what's around you in the moment. It did save me while driving in Armenia last year, for which Google Maps and internet advice sometimes got us in serious trouble.
Last edited by shelemm; Oct 13th, 2022 at 05:49 AM.
#46
GPS (built into the rental car) in France was essential, but it had quirks. It wanted us to go the wrong way on a one way street, advised driving at times on narrow farm roads, led us once onto a bike trail, once wanted us to turn where there was no road at all, and suggested we take an urban "street" that had a few flights of stairs in the middle. And once it kept sending us into a pedestrian only town center. Beware!
#47
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GPS (built into the rental car) in France was essential, but it had quirks. It wanted us to go the wrong way on a one way street, advised driving at times on narrow farm roads, led us once onto a bike trail, once wanted us to turn where there was no road at all, and suggested we take an urban "street" that had a few flights of stairs in the middle. And once it kept sending us into a pedestrian only town center. Beware!
#48
I rarely use GPS in a car except for amusement when the rental car comes with it. You would not believe how often the GPS tells you to go down a tiny farm road when the main road is just 100 meters farther. My advice: whenever the road signs disagree with your GPS, follow the SIGNS!
#49
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GPS (built into the rental car) in France was essential, but it had quirks. It wanted us to go the wrong way on a one way street, advised driving at times on narrow farm roads, led us once onto a bike trail, once wanted us to turn where there was no road at all, and suggested we take an urban "street" that had a few flights of stairs in the middle. And once it kept sending us into a pedestrian only town center. Beware!
I rarely use GPS in a car except for amusement when the rental car comes with it. You would not believe how often the GPS tells you to go down a tiny farm road when the main road is just 100 meters farther. My advice: whenever the road signs disagree with your GPS, follow the SIGNS!
I got one in a car that I took out of Porto airport and it was giving me directions even though I didn't even set a destination. I had my iPhone with me and I was using that to go to Duoro Valley.
Got annoying and I found a way to turn off the big center screen.
As far as Michelin maps, that does sound useful but it's additional things to pack. In Google Maps, most of these attractions are also found and they have links to reviews, Wiki articles or the website which operates the attractions.
I used to print out these kinds of descriptions but stopped because I didn't want to use more paper than I needed to. Also stopped buying guide books, another thing to pack and carry around. Instead I make an itinerary in Tripit.com and then convert it to a PDF that I can view anytime on my phone or iPad. Some people here back in the day would make a spread sheet or a big Word document with their notes and summaries and hotel confirmation numbers and so on and take a printout with them on their trips. I just did it with Tripit. Kayak also lets you forward your booking emails and it will also build an itinerary as well.
I would even embed screen shots of maps with the places I was going saved, so you could see where they were in relation to each other.
Last edited by scrb11; Oct 13th, 2022 at 10:18 AM.
#50
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I am a nerd who loves looking maps. A few years ago we paid 10€ for a map of Germany for our trip. We bought it from the rental car company when we picked up the car. We never once opened it because Google maps worked perfectly.
At that time we were new to Google maps. Although it worked perfectly on that trip, we've had some bad luck since. The worst part is being sent on crazy back roads when it isn't necessary. On our recent trip to North Carolina, Google put us on the most scary road in the US. It was a narrow, unpaved, winding mountain road. It was hard to find a safe place to turn around but eventually we did. We got back on the paved road and we watched signs to find our destination. We didn't have a map with us and we were sorry.
So while GPS is great about 99% of the time, we do plan to buy a map for our trip to France next year. We are also going to the Loire Valley. Bon Voyage.
At that time we were new to Google maps. Although it worked perfectly on that trip, we've had some bad luck since. The worst part is being sent on crazy back roads when it isn't necessary. On our recent trip to North Carolina, Google put us on the most scary road in the US. It was a narrow, unpaved, winding mountain road. It was hard to find a safe place to turn around but eventually we did. We got back on the paved road and we watched signs to find our destination. We didn't have a map with us and we were sorry.
So while GPS is great about 99% of the time, we do plan to buy a map for our trip to France next year. We are also going to the Loire Valley. Bon Voyage.
Last edited by P_M; Oct 16th, 2022 at 04:17 AM.
#51
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We don’t use a map at hotels, but I love a big open map for planning trips and looking at the relationship of destinations. When new or first time travelers have a two or three week vacation and want to visit a dozen countries, I think it would be so helpful for them to look at paper maps to get a real picture of Europe.
We still have a huge, map from the 70s of Europe. While certainly outdated for roads, etc., it is great to unfold and look at the whole, big picture.
Early on, GPS led us astray often enough that I learned not to trust it, but Google maps are vastly improved over a few years ago, and we rely on them locally. I still like a map for planning and back up.
#52
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We fall into the use both maps and GPS camp. Most people seem recommend the Michelin road maps. We have a Michelin Road atlas - this is our second but not sure what year. We travel for longer than most people - our last three trips have been for ten weeks. The atlas suits us because if we were to take all the individual maps we would have excess baggage!! and I would have screwed it up in frustration because it never folds back easily. The spiral does not bother us, and for our first two trips, we relied solely on the atlas and my navigating skills (maybe). Anyway we are still married. I also find the atlas good when we are researching our trips. I open it up to the area we will be staying in and look up everything around it - towns, villages, natural features such as rivers, gorges, etc, chateaux. You can find out a lot more stuff than just relying on guides or even the departmental website.
We use the GPS to get through larger centres, show the speed limit ( hopefully ), give an approximate arrival time etc. But we like to do our planning with a map and I, as the passenger, have the book handy. We like to detour off on a scenic road or to a village which has a star and find this easier with a map. For that reason we like to have some control over where we go rather than just punching in A to B and following directions. This has always worked well for us in the past.
I was interested by your comment that Peugeot etc lease cars come with a crit air sticker. We leased a Peugeot in 2018 and it did not come with one. We hope to lease again next year - the cars are not up yet - , so I will be interested to see if it comes with one.
We use the GPS to get through larger centres, show the speed limit ( hopefully ), give an approximate arrival time etc. But we like to do our planning with a map and I, as the passenger, have the book handy. We like to detour off on a scenic road or to a village which has a star and find this easier with a map. For that reason we like to have some control over where we go rather than just punching in A to B and following directions. This has always worked well for us in the past.
I was interested by your comment that Peugeot etc lease cars come with a crit air sticker. We leased a Peugeot in 2018 and it did not come with one. We hope to lease again next year - the cars are not up yet - , so I will be interested to see if it comes with one.
Re: Crit'air vignette/sticker. Well, I was getting conflicting info so I double checked. I am buying the car thru the "Auto TT" provider, and they "buy it back" at the end of the trip. This company is based in Madrid. It is they who initially told me that the sticker is provided. When I contacted the actual leasing location in Paris (CDG) I was told that the stickers are NOT provided. I believe the guys in France. Last time I used these guys in 2020, I picked up in Italy and didn't drive into France so it wasn't an issue. But apparently the stickers can be purchased at many auto shops and other retailers on the spot, so it's not necessary to go through the website. The website, from my research as well as comments from other users, is cumbersome, slow, and very poor response time with questions. My issue with ordering online is that they require vehicle docs (VIN, registration, etc.) which I won't have until the day I pick up the car. So, now that my search for a map is going to wait until I arrive in France, I now have another fun task as soon as I'm wheels down.
#54
Regarding the Crit'air stickers, it is also useful to know that they are only necessary Monday through Friday if you are driving between 08:00 and 20:00 in the pollution zones. On weekends and holidays, they are not required. And naturally any car that is parked during the day does not need one. On top of that, the authorities are really only looking for "old" cars. They are well aware that any car from 2021 or 2022 fully respects the pollution laws and they don't give new cars a second glance.
Of course, the stickers are very cheap (3.70€), so if they help to prevent a panic attack, feel free to go away and get one.
Of course, the stickers are very cheap (3.70€), so if they help to prevent a panic attack, feel free to go away and get one.
#55
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Regarding the Crit'air stickers, it is also useful to know that they are only necessary Monday through Friday if you are driving between 08:00 and 20:00 in the pollution zones. On weekends and holidays, they are not required. And naturally any car that is parked during the day does not need one. On top of that, the authorities are really only looking for "old" cars. They are well aware that any car from 2021 or 2022 fully respects the pollution laws and they don't give new cars a second glance.
Of course, the stickers are very cheap (3.70€), so if they help to prevent a panic attack, feel free to go away and get one.
Of course, the stickers are very cheap (3.70€), so if they help to prevent a panic attack, feel free to go away and get one.
#56
#59
It was one of the first words I learned after arriving for a job in Paris in '66. The very first words were savon & gants, taught to me by 2 lovely lady shopkeepers on a cold Jan. day trying to find gloves without the words. They 1st thought soap, 2nd try they got it.
#60
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I just wanted to comment that we are in France now driving a TT car and this year it has been kind of a roller coaster. First of all the car we ordered was not available at the last moment, so we ended up with a much smaller car than we really wanted. And when we arrived in Toulouse we were told that the car hadn't arrived so they rented us a car for almost three weeks although when we rented they weren't sure they could get us an automatic transmission. We can drive a stick but don't want to so we stood our ground at the Enterprise rental lot until they found an automatic. And of course the rental car process took around an hour between the lines, getting the car etc.(the rental car ended up being larger and nicer than the TT car lol). We finally got the TT car almost three weeks after we arrived. Luckily, we were staying at our family home so they could have someone drive the car to us since we were staying put for a month. Not sure what we would have done if we had been on the move. And finally they had trouble getting us the permanent car registration and they finally got it to us by DHL 2 days before we were starting our actual driving trip (just in time for the gas strikes!). So make sure you stay on the details of your car with the leasing company this year before you leave-I would call or email them within a few days to confirm you have a car! We have two other friends leasing as well and both of them have had similar issues. Normally we love the program but they are kind of struggling this year, so you don't want to end up arriving with no car!