Where are the American tourists?

Aug 12th, 2007, 10:05 AM
  #21  
 
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We didn't feel unsafe at all in Turkey. It's a fascinating country, definitely worth a visit, although I might suggest skipping the south coast (except for Ephesus) which reminded me of downtown Aruba when the cruise ships come in.
Weadles is offline  
Aug 12th, 2007, 10:22 AM
  #22  
 
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"what an ugly and untrue ( in my experience) thing to say."

Please don't misread my post as even suggesting that I'm talking about ALL Italians or ALL French. Sorry it's an ugly thing to say, but having just returned from two weeks in Italy and 10 days in Paris and moving about a dozen times in the metro or on busses to get away from people with unbelievably bad body odor, I'm afraid it WAS my experience. And always has been in the summer.

We sat at lunch one day next to two very well dressed women probably in their 50s having a nice lunch. All of a sudden one of the women raised her arm to scratch her head and I nearly fell off my chair. It is NOT an unusual thing in France in July. Sorry. Surely I'm not the only one to have run into this.
NeoPatrick is offline  
Aug 12th, 2007, 10:45 AM
  #23  
 
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There surely can't be two Erik Lacitis' in Seattle. Erik - I miss reading your columns in the Times. Nice to see you pop up here.
lennyba is offline  
Aug 12th, 2007, 10:45 AM
  #24  
 
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Have been on the subway in Rome in July and we thought we would die from the smell of body odor. It is true.
DinPa is offline  
Aug 12th, 2007, 10:51 AM
  #25  
 
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Have you seen the movie "Midnight Express"? Lots of Americans have, enough said.

But seriously, I think it's a mix of a lot of things. Turkey is farther and more expensive to get to than most of Europe from the US and there are just so many places of interest to see for less money and hassle. It's on my list of places to go but I admit there are many other destinations that will come before it. There is not a lot of information, "buzz" or a tradition of tourism in Turkey in the American mind. And yes, some Americans may be unsettled by, or uncomfortable with, visiting a country with a Muslim majority these days, even one as secularized as Turkey, for fear of hostility or even terrorism.

In today's climate of anti-Americanism some people try and stand out less whenever travelling overseas, and in a more "exotic" place and with less opportunity for "safety in numbers" with few other Americans around it is that much more difficult. Personally, I don't agree with this and feel Turkey would make a wonderful destination but I'd never suggest someone vacation anywhere they would worry, whether that worry is grounded in perception or reality. Vacation time and resources are just too valuable to be tainted by such concerns.

Danon, I have to go with NeoPatrick on this one-his experience mirrors my own.

svicious22 is offline  
Aug 12th, 2007, 11:13 AM
  #26  
 
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"Danon, I have to go with NeoPatrick on this one-his experience mirrors my own.'

Fine, we have all had some "smelly" experiences with groups of people ( or individuals)in hot places where there are very few air-conditioned buildings, buses, subways and apartments .
What I objected to ( and Neo corrected it), was the blanket statement.
It just reminded me of the attitude many North Americans had in the past about dirty, unwashed, hairy (women) Europeans.
danon is offline  
Aug 12th, 2007, 11:29 AM
  #27  
 
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Danon, please REread my post. It was not a BLANKET statement and I'm sorry you took it as such. And I did NOT "correct" my statement, I merely tried to explain it as I first made it.

As I've already stated -- nowhere did I suggest that ALL Italians are unwashed masses -- nor that ALL Parisians believe in only bathing twice a year.

I merely suggested from personal experience that it is NOT an ususual thing in Italy or France to run into a LOT of body odor on public transportation. And I was pointing out that there was a surprising lack of such in Istanbul.

The only reason I can see for someone to interpret remarks the way you did is that they somehow perceived them to be true themselves and were offended at someone "pointing it out". Not unlike someone saying "a teenager robbed us" and some overly defensive teenager instantly protesting that not all teenagers are robbers! Of course not!
NeoPatrick is offline  
Aug 12th, 2007, 11:40 AM
  #28  
 
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Sorry Neo, if I misunderstood ;I said you corrected it.
The reason it bothered me is just the oposite of what you insinuated -
"The only reason I can see for someone to interpret remarks the way you have is that they somehow perceived that to be true themselves'
- my background is European.
danon is offline  
Aug 12th, 2007, 12:43 PM
  #29  
 
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"In today's climate of anti-Americanism"

ZZZZZZZZZZ
waring is offline  
Aug 12th, 2007, 12:52 PM
  #30  
 
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ZZZZZZZZZZ...
It may be true but on a recent trip to England we were surprised at a number of unfriendly comments made about Americans
by people we talk to in pubs ( once they learned we were not American).
danon is offline  
Aug 12th, 2007, 01:02 PM
  #31  
 
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There are not smelly Americans, only Europeans, I guess.....!!!
Maybe that's why they LOVE to come to Europe so much... because Europeans are smelly!
Tere is offline  
Aug 12th, 2007, 01:07 PM
  #32  
 
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Reminds me of a great song by Tom Leher in the 60's called "The Merry Minuet."

"The whole world is festering
with unhappy souls,
the French hate the Germans,
the Germans hate the Poles,
Italians hate Yugoslavs,
South Africans hate the Dutch...
and I don't like anybody very much."

I don't think Europeans like each other very much, so I'm not going to worry if someone doesn't like me because I'm an American.

Seriously, my fellow Americans (you know who you are!), I suspect we're doing too much gazing at our navels.
Pegontheroad is offline  
Aug 12th, 2007, 01:08 PM
  #33  
 
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and maybe Europeans don't use caps and white socks because they are smelly.

I guess americans who keep asking how to dress while in Europe should also ask how many baths a week they should take while in Europe so they can look like Europeans...
Tere is offline  
Aug 12th, 2007, 01:11 PM
  #34  
 
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In Rome!!
dorie is offline  
Aug 12th, 2007, 01:13 PM
  #35  
 
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"There are not smelly Americans, only Europeans, I guess.....!!!
Maybe that's why they LOVE to come to Europe so much... because Europeans are smelly!"

What was the meaning of that post? Surely no one could be so naive as to think that it is some sort of logical proof that there can't be any "smelly" Europeans or Americans wouldn't go vacation there? If not then, what was its meaning?
NeoPatrick is offline  
Aug 12th, 2007, 01:29 PM
  #36  
 
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"I nearly gag all the time on public transportation in much of Europe -- the unwashed masses on Italian busses, or the horrific summer armpit smells from the Parisians who believe in only bathing twice a year."

And I wonder what was the meaning of this post? FYI I am not French or Italian, and didn't like it, it was of very bad taste .
Tere is offline  
Aug 12th, 2007, 01:42 PM
  #37  
 
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Let me guess. If someone posted about a trip to the US and mentioned the unwashed masses in the New York subway and the New Yorkers who only bathe twice a year -- that wouldn't have bothered you at all? Oh, right -- that's probably OK because it would be about Americans. But the bottom line is that anyone who has every ridden the New York subway would understand.

This is like the person who says it is just plain "bigoted" to say that a large Japanese group of tourists were all flashing pictures. Anyone who disagrees has obviously never encountered a large group of Japanese tourists. It's not a slam against the Japanese, just a fact of life that it is not unusual to see them taking a lot of pictures. By the same token anyone who doesn't know what I mean about the Paris Metro in summer has apparently never ridden a Paris Metro in the summer. Sorry it offends you, but it is a fact of life.

And once again, please don't misinterpret to think I have said that the French are ALL "smelly" (your term, not mine). I have said nothing even remotely like that.
NeoPatrick is offline  
Aug 12th, 2007, 01:45 PM
  #38  
 
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I have to disagree with svicious22. I think Turkey has become a very popular destination in recent years, and there's certainly been a lot of press on it in nearly every other magazine and newspaper. Turkey is more than ready for tourism, and a much cheaper destination than most European countries, since it's not on the Euro. I think the main reason Americans aren't going there is the same reason they're not traveling as much to Europe in general- the horrible exchange rate.
Weadles is offline  
Aug 12th, 2007, 01:48 PM
  #39  
 
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And now I need to correct myself- while Turkey IS cheaper than other European destinations, prices have slowly crept up in the last few years, and hotel rates are often cited in Euros.
Weadles is offline  
Aug 12th, 2007, 01:50 PM
  #40  
 
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Pegontheroad

Thanks for posting the words to that song. I have been trying for months to remember them!

What is rest of the part about, "they're rioting in Africa, there's strife in Iran............what nature doesn't do to us, will be done by our fellowman". Not bad predicting for a 40-year old song!
Jane

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