My husband and I want to travel to Rome-Venice-Florence sometime in 2005, we're pretty open to anytime of the year...we have a pretty small budget though and would like to save money wherever we can. When exactly is the off-season? Also, if anyone has any info or input regarding this trip it would be greatly appreciated. We're first time overseas travelers and I really want to plan this on my own rather than overpay a tour group.

Thanks!
chrissy

October-March/April, avoiding major holidays (Christmas, Easter). Don't go in July or August - hot, crowded and expensive.

I'm often tempted to say the "off season" for good rates is from 1 AM until 6 AM on the 11th of February.

Seriously, off season rates seem to become less and less available. But generally speaking you'll do the best costwise in January, February (except Carnivale in Venice) and November. Of course, there is a reason for that -- those tend to be the coldest and drabbest months of the year.

On the other hand, if you are lucky you will have clear, cool, pleasant weather and reduced crowds, although not nonexistent. You can read my trip report for my trip in late December and early January, although I haven't written up Rome yet. I was definitely budget-oriented. I'd go back to Italy in the winter anytime.

Keep in mind that the days can be very short, opening hours abbreviated, and some things actually closed in the "off season", therefore impacting your bang for the buck.

There is almost no off season for Italy, but the airlines seem to think that November and March are that. I would try late March or early Nov. for your best airline bang.

Country by country you can speak of a high season in summer and at Easter to cover days when schools close for holidays. In England that is roughly 20 July to 5 September, 20 December to 5 January, and two weeks for Easter, starting in late March or April and depending on the date of Easter that year, which Jews will know as related to Passover. You have to ask the nearest US church or school board for the date of western Easter and related holiday. If anybody knows where the date is on the net we shall all be grateful. I was using the site of our school board in the London Borough of Lewisham, http://ecs.lewisham.gov.uk/ictadvice/addresses.htm/. Strange place o look for Italian peak times.

I think Italian schools keep much the same dates as we for Christmas and Easter, but a longer summer, perhaps 13 July to 12 September, but that matters little, as the great cities of Italy receive visitors from across north America and Europe (and increasingly from Japan and China), and some families cut costs by taking children out of school to holiday in Italy. So I should say peak times are the Easter two weeks and in summer three months mid June to mid September, peaking 1 July to 31 August, and the off-season is any other dates. Mid December to early January presents a mix of off and on period. It is a peak time for travel within Europe by train, bus, and no-frills plane, but an off season for hotels and outdoor sightseeing.

If a the Pope, the Patriarch of Constantinople, and a representative chief rabbi chosen by the others would please sit down with a cup of coffee I am sure they could reach a helpful agreement, as the Celts and Romans did at Whitby in the year 664 AD.

You asked When exactly is the off-season? and I must needs say Sorry, there is no exactitude about it, but I hope this sketch will help.

You also asked for info or input regarding this trip. Good sites for opening ideas on travel in all Europe are these
http://www.ricksteves.com
http://www.eurotrip.com/
e-mag : http:// salonwanderlust.com-an
Personal pages about many countries: http://www.virtualtourist.com

Then you can look for links for Italy. A page for country by country sets of links is
http://www.efn.org/~rick/tour/.
Others are http://www.budgettravel.com/
http://www.footloosetravel.com/links.htm
http://www.travel-library.com/europe/index.html
http://www.excite.com/travel/countries/

Many Fodors forum readers praise two American sites
The San Francisco Examiner Sunday travel section:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...ive/1999/08/22
and the "Follow the Reader" column
http://www.examiner.com/follow/norcal.html
National Geographic European travel forum:
http://www.nationalgeographic.com/tr...p;x=17&y=7
As a Londoner I admire the similar http://travel.independent.co.uk/europe/western/.

Specific to Italy the following were good sites five years ago, but I am afraid that I have not checked recently.
Links: http://www.netguide.com/Snapshot/Arc...vel&id=725
http://goitaly.about.com/travel/goitaly/mbody.htm
http://www.travel-library.com/europe/italy/
Italy tourist webring at: http://www.webring.org/cgi-bin/webri...=italtour;list
Long Travelogue by a middle aged American couple, with trip-planning tips: http://www.thetravelzine.com
Railways: http://www.fs-on-line.com/: http://www.trenitalia.it, then English (This still active, and is good)
Hotels: http://www.italyhotel.com
Rome: http://twenj.com/romeref.htm#Info/. I expect there are similar pages for other great cities
Venice: http://goeurope.miningco.com/mmore.htm

When others reply to you I shall be thankful, and use what they say to improve my advice in future. What a useful forum. Also, please tell me if you would like my note on how to book through agents for trains in Europe other than the expensive RailEurope. Meanwhile, with money short and time shorter, I suggest you book from Rome to Venice a slightly unusual way, in bed. You need berths in three berth second class single sex compartments. You board at Rome Tiburtina at 2253, sleep straight through Venice, reach Latisana at 0658, buy a coffee and sandwich, leave Latisana southbound at 0737, wash and shave in the bathroom at the end of the corridor, breakfast and snooze, and step out at Venice Santa Lucia at 0846, ready for a great day. As you walk out of the station please pause to enjoy the view, one of the best arrivals in all Europe. Welcome to the continent.

ben>[email protected]

Wow! Thanks everyone!! I'm off to scour the internet!

I thought the off-season months for the major cities were July and August? At least as far as the hotels go, not the airlines. I seem to remember when I was in Venice in August a few years back, the rates were cheaper then than the rest of the year. The logic being that people are flocking to the beaches during these months. Is this not the case?

After searching to book a hotel in March in Rome, I noticed that after 15th/20th the prices in many places seemed to jump and thus we're going 13 -16 March (because three nights were cheaper than two!) Weird..maybe preparing for Easter?

AP6380, yes, you're right -- that is NOT the case. Looking at hotel rates, there are few reductions in July and August in Rome or Venice, and I don't think in Florence. Those are prime tourist destinations in the summer regardless of the what the locals do.

I know the airlines like to extend summer prices until Oct 31. I've gone to Europe at the beginning of Nov for each of the last 3 years and the prices dropped by nearly half. As far as the weather goes, for me, it's been great. The fall is my favorite season in Europe. 7 of my 10 trips to Europe have been in the off season and the number of extremely lousy weather days I've had I can count on one hand. You'll have a great time. Enjoy your trip.

For Ben Haines (and anyone else needing the information): In 2005 Western Easter is March 27 and Orthodox Easter is May 1. While finding the date of Western Easter was as simple as looking at one of my 2005 calendars, it took a Google search to find the date for Orthodox Easter. Interestingly, I found several different dates listed. Apparently not all the sites used the same means to calculate the date. However, the one listed the most often is May 1.

chrissy, NWA shows until March 14th as one airfare to Europe and March 15 to May 19 as a higher fare. Then of course it will increase more.

Italy is so popular, that the "off season" rates are not as great as they use to be. Winter of course would be the cheapest unless you are going to ski areas etc. which you are not.

At the moment I'm leaning toward early November for our trip. That way we can save lots of spending money and it'll be a bit cheaper...I live in Florida, so any cold weather would be welcoming! Thanks again everyone!

Ben Haines asked about a web site showing holidays. This one:
http://www.vpcalendar.net/Holiday_Dates/2005_2010.html
shows US and Canadian holidays through 2010. Not too useful if you want to know national holidays in other countries, but you can at least look up the dates of Easter.

Chrissy, we found early November an excellent time to travel in Italy last year (2004). The plane fares, as others have said, dropped quite a bit in November, and as I have mentioned elsewhere, if you book early but keep monitoring the fares, you might even get a refund from the airline if the price drops again.

We didn't go to Venice or Florence on that trip (to Rome and the Amalfi Coast), but we did get good off-season rates at the Hotel Aberdeen in Rome. We had a little rain, but to me that was less annoying than huge crowds of tourists, which we did NOT have to put up with.

If you're interested, I have a trip report at:
http://www.rozault.com/italy2004