5alive

I did an an exchange during my junior year of college -- to England.

At the beginning we were with other students on the program and I can see what people mean about how Americans would tend to stick together. We were broken up though, first for homestays and then to our different colleges around England.

My family hosted a German student when we were in high school because my brother was taking German.It was funny hearing his views on what he thought America would be like. My brother spoke to him sometimes in German.

Also, I don't see why the host families have to also travel. This allows people who can't afford the trip to Russia to still be part of the program as hosts.

Finally you should not be paying for your flight, lodgings or basic meal costs!

rex

I apologize in advance, for not having read this enire thred, and I am surprised that I did not see it earlier this weekend.

I am in the "in favor" camp on virtually every kind of school-connected overseas travel, and I have a variety of experiences - - though curiously, none that is a dead match for high-school-based "spring break"-style trips.

My experience:

1969: my first trip to Europe, six weeks (summer) on a "course/study trip" called "Western Civilization" by a big national company that formed (loosely) groups of geographically-related students, about 10-20 in a group with one teacher-chaperone; the students ranged from high school through 1st and 2nd year college students. I remember my chaperone well; she was a teacher of art (seemed more like art appreciation than studio art), and she had two of her own kids on the trip (senior in HS and freshman in college?). She was a bit grandmotherly; I don't think there were any serious discipline problems on the trip. I was one of two kids from my high school (the other was my girfriend, loosely speaking, at the beginning of the trip), and we didn't know any of the other kids in our group ahead of time. Ther were hundrds of other kids at the beginning of the trip (Rome), but then the groups generally split up, following different itineraries for the different courses. The academic work was _extremely_ light; I got no credit for it per se; maybe some college kids did. We went to Rome, Pompeii, Brindisi, Athens, Delphi, Thessalonika, Yugoslavia, Venice, Milan, Geneva, Paris and London (Reading). It is just about the most important trip in my life.

1992-1996: My wife and I enrolled each of our three daughters (about 10 years old at the time, in each case) in the French "Back-to-Back" program of the organization AFAC. It involves a near year-long program of preparation... for French kids coming, in a group, to live with a dozen or two American families (typically in March), for three weeks... followed by the American kids going to France for three weeks to live with those same families. One teacher and one "accompagnateur" (translater/escort). I think it was a good experience in each of our three years. I was virtually evanglical about it back then. I served as the accompagnateur (not a year our own kids went) in 1997. My zeal, for how good this program is, has mellowed over the years, but I still believe it was very, very good. My best travels in France were my three weeks as the "extra dad" to those 11 kids, in 1997.

1998: Took our three daughters, plus six cousins and two boyfriends (ages 14-22) to Europe for 17 days: London, Venice, Tuscany (villa), south of France, Paris and back to (outside) London. Phenomenally good, and established my insatiable appetite for small group trips.

2000: repeated a smaller version, only 8 days, only five kids (two ours) for spring break; all seniors in high school except for our younger (sophomore) daughter. Bavaria, Salzburg, Venice and back. Very whirlwind, but still very good. Shoestring budget, which made it all the better.

2001: youngest daughter (who paricipates here, occasionally) went for a two week choir trip to England, as a rising senior in high school. No problems that I know of.

2002: repeat family-type trip, just our three daughters (college graduation for oldest). Vienna, Prague, Poland, Scotland. Problem-free. Still very good.

2004: youngest daughter went to University of Stirling for a semester; good experience from a travel perspective; she did a week on hr own exploring the Hebrides in October, and from a practical standpoint, there was the awkward problem of her needing to come home for oldest daughter's wedding in early November.

So, I have a broad spectrum of experiences, and I have never seen the bad side (drunkenness or other age-inappropriate behavior). Can I recall some less-than-perfect moments or maybe even the occasional bad day? Of course.

But I developed life-long wanderlust when I was 15, and further infected my own kids before they were 11, and I believe that we are all the richer for it. I would travel with any group of kids, at any age, to any destination (in Europe), and start working on the trip tomorrow. It's in my blood. For what it's worth, I did train in pediatrics, though my career is specialized in newborn intensive care, so I do not really engage with children (above babies) on any regular basis. (Wife does have a big family, though, our daughters have 31 first cousins; five on my side)

I suspect that some or all of our daughters will have good experiences with their own kids engaged in overseas travel also.

Best wishes,

Rex

CotswoldScouser

I'm puzzled about this.

When I was 15, I just sold records every Saturday, bought my plane ticket to France and exchanged for a month with a boy from a similar background.

Clearly, the schools (or rather the Modern Language Association) did the homework on matchmaking. But no-one would have dreamt of anyone needing chaperones, or getting anyone other than me to raise the money. And the last thing anyone wanted was for teachers, or other Britons, to create a comfort blanket. Total immersion was what we wanted - and got.

These days it CAN get more complicated: my neighbourhood school obviously needs to raise the money if third-world children come here on exchanges. But the local kids are just as able to pay their own way as I was: our supermarkets would be a lot shorter of checkout operators if they weren't. And it's even easier now than 40 years ago for them to book their own flight.

So why on earth do these people need all this palaver with organised trips, nannying teachers and group fundraising to go to somewhere basic, like France or Germany? Can't they just get a bus to their nearest airport?

katya_NY

Thank you to EVERYONE for the continuation of this thread. I love hearing about how such avid travelers developed a love from a young age.

Let me attempt to answer some questions now...

We always solicit kids for feedback, right after the trip and then a while later. Right after is interesting, as some are still able to recall all of the specifics- but later they seem to have more of a general feeling of "once-in-a-lifetime" experience.

I'm not sure which way to interpret either- but I do agree that the exchange part of the trip is the most important aspect. We could certainly cut our trip down to bare bones, and stay with the school for 2 weeks, no excursions. I just feel that it is such a rare chance to see these places- without a trip to Moscow, Russia is incomplete. So this is my own hang up about the exchange- I feel that until my kids stand on Red Square, feel that energy and hear the chimes from the Kremlin... they haven't "felt" Russia.

As far as the suburban aspect of our hosting very worldly, urban Russkis- I think this is one of the reasons the school in Piter likes us. There are many fewer possibilities for temptation and issues to arise (in their perspective) because we aren't in the center of NYC, for example. We still have access to other important places, but the trick is balancing a school exchange with traveling in homogeneous groups. As our exchange is arranged, when the Russians are with us, they travel without even their American siblings during the day (God forbid they miss classes)- and vice cersa while we are in Piter. It isn't ideal, but our schools can't see the value of the kids traveling together to form those bonds.

As far as travel trips vs. volunteer trips, there is no doubt which would be more fulfilling in the long term. I actually looked into Habitat for Humanity for myself, though- there was something (maybe on Oprah- where I always get the news) about building houses in Siberia. I was really excited to volunteer, and on the website they specifically requested Russian-speaking people. I sent for further info. and received an e-mail back that the cost for my "volunteering" would be about $4000. I wish I could donate that much $$ and give my time, but it is just not a possibility. (To be clear-I am in no way denying that this is a reasonable fee for this type of project- it just isn't realistic for a teacher.)

We do have students who volunteer every summer in different parts of the globe, mainly affiliated with their churches. These kids have fabulous experiences, and I would love to bring a group like that to Russia- if anyone knows how...?

laclaire: thanks again for your info. I think it does make perfectly good sense to explain to parents that there is a cost for these trips, outside of the plane tickets, etc. Unfortunately, my department is all over the board with this- one language gets $$ for single hotel rooms in a famed city (P----) in addition to food $$, etc. I don't need that much luxury, but I do feel there should be something.

I would love to switch to Odessa- if anyone knows a good school there??? It would be an easier way to set something else up with reciprocation in one year.

Most of our students do some form of work for their trip expenses (in our group of 19, I think only probably... 6-7 had a check for a full amount in hand the first time we met). I do think that the students should work to earn at least part of the trip, as it is more meaningful that way.

Rex- I hope that I will be able to give my (currently nonexistent) children such a wonderful, mind-expanding childhood. I think that would be a fabulous way to experience travel- from a young age, with no preconceived notions.

Finally to Cotswold- I have to assume that you are not a Yank. Americans shelter our children to no end. I cannot say I'm a good American in that regard, as I feel that children should see the truth in the world around them, and not be so sheltered. But as these are not my children, but rather the students to whom I first introduced Russian- this is a different deal. I do hope that after this experience shows them that the rest of the world isn't such a scary place, they will go out & try on their own. A lot of them do continue on to study abroad (not always in Russia- but many do).

At least I can say I have brought a few kids across the ocean for the first time! (Or on a plane for the first time, train for the first time...)




Any other suggestions? I am taking notes for our next dept. meeting.

KT

FWIW, here is my sad tale.

Back in the Dark Ages when travel was expensive and I was a high school sophomore or junior, my high school offered students the chance to go to summer language schools in Europe. I really, really wanted to go, and I was getting very good grades in French, but my parents didn't have that kind of cash and scholarships were extremely paltry. So I stayed home.

Almost without exception, the kids who went were the ones with more money, not more academic or cultural interests. This was quite obvious in my school, which was in a large consolidated school district that encompassed blue-collar towns and more upscale bedroom communities.

My friends who went had a great time. Their foreign language skills did not increase noticeably. But they sure had great stories about drinking, sex, and cliques.

katya_NY

KT- sorry to hear your sad tale. I assume that you have since recovered, as you probably travel now, and can use French should you venture to France(or their former colonies).

I have to wonder if these trips had any teacher-chaperones involved at all, as it was the summer. I think that summer travel would alleviate some of the problems we run into with planning, but Russian schools are not open June-July-August, so an "exchange" would be out of the question.

amp322

As a high school teacher, I would have to say that trips of this nature must be limited to only the MOST mature & responsible students. I went to Italy when I was 15, with a group of music students & my teacher (who turned out to be less mature than we were!!). I was a shy child, but, nonetheless, took advantage of the opportunity to drink every night! (Of course I was going to -it wasn't illegal over there!!) These days, almost all teens drink & experiment with drugs. They see any kind of overnight trip as carte blanche to try anything & everything. Yes - even the "good" kids. Believe me - I KNOW from experience, having taught high school for 13 years. Parents think their kids are angels, but,in reality, will do and are doing all kinds of things that would make you faint if you knew. I do not want to be the chaperone for any kind of trip abroad, especially with laws that are different from the ones here in the US.

The local high school in the town where I live sends their music students to Vienna & Prague every other year... and I mean the WHOLE orchestra!! That music department must be nuts!! In the system where I work,which is lower middle class, not one kid would be able to afford going, without fundraising every dime, and I will not and cannot spend all my energy on that. I hope that most of them do get to travel abroad, but taking them on a bus to the next town on the freeway exit is about the only thing I can handle!!

rex

This seems to be the only thing we know from amp322...

<< I do not want to be the chaperone for any kind of trip abroad >>

Fine. So don't.

I don't understand such low and fatalist opinions of young people. And I don't know why you choose to be a teacher.

<< I was a shy child, but, nonetheless, took advantage of the opportunity to drink every night! >>

<< These days, almost all teens drink & experiment with drugs. >>

How can you not see the ludicrous hypocrisy of your statements? Everyone who grew up in the 20th century (every century since grapes were first picked and thrown into a vat to rot?) has gone through periods of youthful "vices". Did you turn out to be such a sociopath that the world would be better off without you? Would mass suicide of everyone who committed transgressions between the ages of 5 and 30 give us a better world?

I'm in a ranting mood today over doomsayers - - some &quot;expert&quot; in Oregon wants to call attention to the &quot;greatest extinction of all time&quot; 247 million years ago (it's not fiction, nor an exaggeration)... <i><b>caused by global warming</b></i> - - as if that was a <i><b><u>bad</u><b></b></b></i> thing. You know what? It made life on earth today what it is, as a result of the genomic selection it required. So do forest fires. So will bird flu and tsunamis.

Maybe it's a stretch of a parallel - - but I have no time for people who focus on &quot;we've got to stop doing this&quot; or &quot;prevent that from happening&quot;. I say throw out the &quot;don't&quot;s and the &quot;shouldn't&quot;s and the &quot;can't&quot;s. Engage yourself and your child in things that might have risks... and consequences. Book flights with close connections. Take a seat on a bus beside someone who doesn't speak English. Go hear a concert, performed by students whose high school sends <i>its entire orchestra</i> overseas.

And whine less. (note to self: look in mirror and say this repeatedly, also).

amp322

Rex - I'm not saying DON'T go overseas, I'm saying TAKE YOUR CHILD YOURSELF!!!

I would love to take SOME of my kids overseas, but only the ones that I know would actually benefit &amp; understand how to reap the rewards of such a trip at a young age (when MOST kids are ready to party!!) That leaves about 12 kids!!lol!

I remember being in the wrong place at the wrong time on that trip to Italy when I was 15. The cops came into a park at night, where we were all admiring the river views. Little did we know it was a drug haven. Well, we were asked for ID (which we didn't have, because passports were in the hotel),
and questioned by them. Then we were told to get the hell out of the park &amp; never come back, because it was a dangerous place to be. Very scary. On the way out, we saw some guys who had been shooting up behind a tree get arrested.

You can't watch your kids 24/7, and sending them overseas at an age when they will do stupid things is risky. I really think that parents need to chaperone the kids, and, even better - just take a family vacation.

Let college age kids do an exchange. Even then, they will run hog wild through the streets of Europe, drinking with abandon, but at least they will be a little older &amp; wiser, and will be there to actually study for a semester.

By the way, I invite you to come see one of my orchestra concerts at school. You will see why I became a teacher - my group is excellent, and loves music. I love my students, and the majority of them love me. I share MY photos of my European adventures with them every fall, after I return from my annual summer trip. We just won a silver award at a festival last night. I will never grow old of teaching, and love sharing cultural experiences with my students.



However, I'm not an idealistic fool who thinks that taking 90 high school kids to Europe is a good idea ... MAYBE YOU'D LIKE TO GET BOARD APPROVAL (which will NEVER happen anyway,)FUNDRAISE $200,000,GET PASSPORTS, PLANE TIX, AIR TRANSFERS,IMMUNIZATION CERTIFICATES, PERMISSION FORMS, MEDICAL SLIPS,
FOREIGN CURRENCY, AND ARRANGE FOR DRUG SNIFFING DOGS (for the suitcases) FOR 100 PEOPLE? You are just way out of touch with reality &amp; all the work that a trip of that magnitude entails. In otherwords, you're a fool!!

kswl

I was a student at boarding school in Europe in the 70's. Our students were mostly American, but there were a fair number of Canadians, South Americans, Danes, Brits, etc. We were a pretty motley crew. We were not wealthy at all---in fact, we were dirt poor. Our <i>parents</i> were very wealthy, and just to make sure we realized it wasn't <i>our</i> achievement that bought that fur, we were limited to two duffle bags for an entire school year, and our spending cash was restricted to $45 per year. You were welcome to earn more, at a rate of 50 cents per hour. We did all the usual teenage no-no's, had a great time, got a great contextual education and are (mostly) all now fully-functioning adults.

Travel is good for kids, and I wish everybody could do it. But I have a problem with the &quot;fundraising&quot; letters we get soliciting donations for kids' trips through organizations like People to People. A 20-day trip to Australia with that outfit costs $5700. And that is with a fairly large group!

I will buy candy, cookies, gift wrap, pizzas, and magazines---even if I have to throw them all away. Some days I stop to have my car washed by eager fundraising kids twice in one day. I don't, however, write checks to kids whose idea of &quot;fundraising&quot; is to simply ask people for money. The technical term for that is begging.

rex

Okay, so maybe, deep down, we're in agreement on one thing:

Take your kid to Europe. Take your neighbor's kid to Europe. Take that crosstown kid, whose parent will never be able to afford two plane tickets, to Europe.

And do it the right way. The concerned-about-what-they-are-getting-out-of-it way, the proper-number-of-kids-to-adults way.

Just please don't do it the wrong way.

katya_NY

To be clear: I did not pose this question to make people who choose not to participate in exchanges &quot;feel our pain&quot;- I just wanted to know what other schools are doing in our ever-changing world.

amp322: For heaven's sake, stop your screaming and climb down off that cross. We need the wood.

amp322

Katya - go ahead &amp; take my cross. You can sell it for scrap wood and earn fundraising $$s. YOU asked what WE think, and I told you how I feel. Now it's your problem if you choose to take on the &quot;enormous amount of work &amp; energy for no extra $$s&quot;. (Your own words, by the way)... bon voyage

Guy18

Hi katya,

I only skimmed through the other posts, so sorry if I'm repeating anything that's been said.

I'm also a high school teacher and from my observations, I think that teenagers would get a lot more from foreign travel if their parents were taking them. I honestly don't think that the typical 16 year old is going to get a lot out of being thrown into a foreign country with a bunch of other 16 year olds. I don't have children, but if I did, there is no way I would entrust them to a family I didn't know and the general lack of supervision that they'd be under. I could probably take them to Europe more cheaply myself, showing them the sights and giving them the experiences that I think they'd benefit from the most. Don't you think that a lot of these kids are just going in order to have a good time? They can do that in their own neighborhood. College, I believe, is a better time for such experiences as you mention. Sorry to seem like such a cynic.

katya_NY

Hi Guy- no, I don't think you are being cynical-

I think that if every family were a &quot;traveling&quot; family, it would be the ideal way for kids to see the world. Unfortunately for a lot of Americans, leaving the country is still a rarity. This is part of the reason why I do support the programs still, because I know many families cannot afford to all go overseas.

Actually in my groups that I have brought to Russia, about half the kids were the first in their (immediate)family to leave the country. It seems funny, but really we do isolate ourselves quite a bit. And my school is fairly affluent, too- it makes no difference to many people.

I do agree that kids want to have fun on the trip, but also I see the bonds that can form in these situations, and I'm glad that they had fun- even with their wacky teachers!

This may seem a stretch, but I also think that sometimes these teens are much more up for new experiences when it isn't mom that is suggesting them. I had students try all kinds of new foods in Russia, who eat nothing but chicken &amp; rice at home (this is directly from the mom, too). I think with their friends around, they are willing to try things. At least a little bit.

Guy18

Yikes! Just read through some of the more recent posts, and am almost embarrassed to share my opinion with amp...

amp, have you ever heard of having a difference of opinion? Do you scream at your students this way? Katya was soliciting opinions, it seems to me, and should be commended for not just doing what she's always done. She's QUESTIONING herself. People who do that are the last ones who should be attacked.

Guy18

katya--I also teach at a fairly affluent school. Do you really find intellectual and artistic growth to be among the most important values in upper middle class suburbia? Maybe I'm wrong to have such disdain for the values of the parents of the students I teach, but I find that what matters to them is the eventual paycheck, the college admissions letter, the latest status symbol--and sending your kid to Europe seems to be one of these. Maybe I'm wrong, but I see signs of this continually. If they were really sending their kids for the right reasons, wouldn't they be avid travellers themselves and forgo that Lexus? Just a thought...

laclaire

katya-

I was just thinking about this. . . you talk about you organizing it and that it is no extra money for you. Have you ever thought about proposing the idea and telling the students they need to organize it? If you have already done it, you have the basic guidelines, which makes their job considerably easier.

When I wanted to go abroad in high school I called AFS, got the catalogue, filled it out, paid the fee with babysitting money, then set everything up (interview and such) and told my parents when to be home. From the beginning to the end it was totally my experience and my problem.

When I got to orientation I was really surprised at how many kids had been spoonfed the process or had been forced into it by parents. Perhaps if they were more actively involved with the planning and execution, you could weed out the frivolous ones.

amp322

OK - let's lay the BS to rest. If someone wants to go abroad with kids, all the luck to them.

From MY OWN experiences, I think it could be very risky. I went to China with a large orchestra when I was 17, and one of the cellists broke her leg while attempting Tai Chi in the park one morning (no I'm NOT making this up, lol!!) Anyway, she had MAJOR surgery at a local hospital, and her parents were WAY upset.

My colleague at school took his kids to Greece last summer, and some college kids borrowed his cell phone to &quot;call home&quot;, and he is still fighting with his phone carrier, because the bill was over $1,000.00

Look, best of luck if you do it. I'm playing devil's advocate, and suggesting some food for thought. I traveled a lot as a teen, and watched others take advantage of the situation, and really give the chaperones one hell of a time. If anything, I'm looking out for the other teachers on here, and hoping they just cover their behinds when they try a trip or an exchange. Ciao.

Oh, and ps.. I only yell at my students in dire emergencies. I'm actually pretty mellow at work (since I like my job, and am trying to keep it that way!)

beachgirl86

I did a high school exchange when I was 16. I stayed in Paris and Auxerre, France, and it was one of the most incredible experiences of my life. It was an invaluable experience for so many reasons.

On the other hand, it's now 11 years later, and I am an English teacher at a high school in the Northeast.....and I can't imagine chaperoning my students in a foreign country!!