rhon

Adelaidean, lovely photos and just rubbing it in that scenes like that are out of reach at the moment. We are quite enjoying travelling within Queensland at the moment though. We did a 15 night trip a few weeks ago and now P has decided the time is right to set out again. Apparently we need to see Birdsville once in our lives!! Who am I to argue. We are now working on three week itinerary in the bush.
He has promised we will return to France when the world settles down and I will be holding him to that. ( Not at gunpoint though !! )

raincitygirl

Beautiful photos Leely!

love_travel_Aus

Hi Rhon - I realise that this is the Europe forum but you might like to check today's The Age (or similar) as there is an article about the new owners of the Birdsville Pub.
It got us thinking about possibilities but as we are not able to easily leave the state and cannot travel for a long trip just at the moment it was really just a dream.
I know you are self contained so might not be relevant.

Thanks for the tempting photos Leely!

Sue_xx_yy

Chesko what a great thread, and what a great series of comments. Kerouac, bilbo is right, you did your best.

I have been listening to an audio book of Mark Twain's 'The Innocents Abroad.' Published 1869, it details an epic journey to Europe and through the 'Holy Land' taken at a time when few people traveled. At times he is funny, at times he describes great beauty, at other times he speaks with irony but bluntness about the poverty he saw during his travels. He makes anything and everything the subject of his barbed wit, including travel guides, other travel writers, and himself. However I found myself wondering how much influence physical exhaustion had on his writing. Much of his travels were on horseback. By the time he reached Palestine he'd been traveling for months, and I wonder how much of an effect this had on his impressions.

I think bilbo that when you went to the US, you were on business and thus likely to be also tired, and this may have affected your observations, interesting though they were to read.

Melnq8

To add to what I've learned about travel: I don't do well explaining my travel preferences!

Coquelicot - you've done an exceptional job of explaining the differences between American and European travel, and I wholeheartedly agree. Traveling in the US doesn't really appeal to me as it all feels so very much the same - endless strip malls, parking lots and chain stores. I find it all rather depressing.

And I've seen what Bilbo refers to as well. The first time I saw an armed private citizen wander into a restaurant I turn tailed and got out of there.

And as much as I enjoyed my seven years living in Australia, I can certainly relate to what Adelaidean speaks of. There's only so much red dirt a person can take.

Although...the blue and green edges, the abundant birdlife, the flowers, the food, no complaints there!

suze

"Traveling in the US doesn't really appeal to me as it all feels so very much the same - endless strip malls, parking lots and chain stores. I find it all rather depressing."

OK - saying this just one more time than leaving this thread to you all.

If that is what you believe the entire USA is like, you haven't seen much of it. Or somehow have missed the many highlights. Maybe you need help in planning your trips so you can see the stunning natural beauty and diversity (not like we don't have it) and vibrant urban areas (yes we have those too). I do agree we are not as old/historic as Europe. That's true. We're younger.

Leely2

Beautiful photos, Melnq8 and Adelaidean. Adelaidean's pictures of the Dolomiti several years ago inspired me to take a trip there, which was absolutely one of my best* trips ever.

*Probably my very best trip was gorilla trekking in Rwanda, a totally different experience but I do seem to have a theme: hills and mountains.

Coquelicot

Some lovely photos, Adelaidean, Leely2, and Melnq8, in contrast to your bad examples!

Rhon, I couldn't get your link to work but I tracked down your TR. I know I'll enjoy reading it.

I guess I missed my chance to tell the earlier posters that I'm pretty aware, because of our travels, that there's outstanding beauty in many regions of the US. We live in our favorite landscape of the US, a quiet, green area in the mid-Atlantic, and we know it's our favorite because we've seen many other parts of the US (though not TX or OK or Louisiana). Within a day's drive from here there are some very pretty towns and quite a variety of scenic roads. There's also a lot of urban and suburban sprawl that detracts from the overall beauty.

A few words about visible guns. A man showed up at our place to pick strawberries with a handgun on his belt. One night we were at a high school basketball game when a guy working security shot himself in the foot. Google "Altoona Easter mass gun" and see what turns up. Armed protesters showed up at our state capital this spring. I saw an armed guy at a gas station not too long ago. If you live in the US and aren't aware there are guns on the street, you are lucky.

Sorry cheska, I didn't intend to turn your thought-provoking thread into US-bashing or a discussion of guns. But this thread has clarified for me why I love travel to France. Here's an example of what we might see on the back roads.

bon_voyage

Thank you, Adelaidean, Leely, and Melnq8, for those evocative photos.
i gravitate to the seaside but my memories of my time in the Dolomites are among my favorites.
For lessons learned, whenever possible adding a week/a country/a city/a something to every trip abroad.

geetika

I wholeheartedly second your thoughts bon_voyage...this is what my sister and I were saying when we spoke over the phone this afternoon.

Adelaidean, Leely and Melanq8, thanks for those gorgeous pictures. And cheska for this thread...

Melnq8

Actually, I've seen a fair bit of the US. The landscape is very diverse, no argument there, but there is a sameness that I find difficult to describe. Urban sprawl, fast food joints, store after store, cookie cutter communities, concessionaires in national parks, etc. Perhaps it's a similar sameness that Aussies feel about Australia or Kiwis feel about New Zealand, who knows.

What a boring world it would be if we all liked the same things.

Fra_Diavolo

I think familiarity has a lot to do with the idea of sameness. There are dreary stretches all over the world. I often wish I could stay as alert at home as I do abroad.

cheska15

Coquelicot no need to apologise. I haven’t taken any of the comments as US bashing. The wonderful side effect of travel is that we all experience different things. Also living in a place, people have different experiences. When posting on forums sometimes they take on a life of their own, and I always learn something. Suze I have appreciated your comments on your experiences on where you live.

Leely and Melanq8, thanks for the photos. Adelaidean you mentioned Andamooka and that’s enough to give me an anxiety attack.

Enjoy your trip rhon.

Sue_xx_yy

We may see what we expect to see sometimes.

Paris: visual scenery, or visual pollution?

https://www.istockphoto.com/photo/pa...96773-25827899

And actual pollution. The French state was successfully sued by a mother and daughter.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-48762911


Switzerland: open carry.

Note: rate of gun homicide lags the US by a huge margin, however, Switzerland still has 7.7 (gun) homicides per million compared to Canada's 5.2, Sweden's 4.1 and Australia's 1.4. The Swiss recently moved to tighten laws on gun ownership and while I think the legislation passed, there was considerable opposition.

Heidi Get Your Gun - TIME

nukesafe

A most interesting thread. I'd like to comment on a couple of areas.

First is the gun situation. I agree that it is a matter of local culture that controls open display of weapons in the US. I have seen guns hanging on people's belts in the South; Texas in particular. I, however, also live in an open-carry State, Washington, and have only once seen a handgun in the open, and that was on a shopkeeper who reached for something on a high shelf and his shirt hiked up enough to reveal his piece. Any citizen with a clean record can get a concealed carry permit, so there is really no need to broadcast you are armed. It is prudent to believe that a significant percentage men and woman in public have the ability to produce and use iron if necessary. A number of friends carry concealed all the time. I friend of about ten years recently told me he always left the house with a weapon. I had had no idea in all the times I have been with him. It is not really polite to advertise in our North West culture. I seldom carry, but if I had taken my dear Wife to Seattle recently I probably would have gone strapped.

The second area is the problem in the States of long stretches of nothingness interspersed by clusters of identical roadside businesses. To understand this phenomenon one needs to recall how communities developed in Europe and the States. In Europe a fellow would build a house. Then, as his family grew, he might build another one right next door. Pretty soon (we are talking centuries here) there would be enough houses so that it did not make sense for each to bake its own bread or make their own shoes, so one of the houses would open a boulangerie in one of the houses from which every other house could buy bread. Soon, as the community grew, others could offer other services that required special skills or equipment, or just made sense to centralize; blacksmiths, cobblers, dressmakers, candlestick makers, vegetable sellers, etc., would set up close to where the people lived; probably in a house just down the street. That was called a village. People could walk to get most of the necessities of life.

Contrast that with the States, which developed rural communities in a totally different way. People would build houses, whole developments in the last century, but they were mobile, having horses or carriages, or automobiles. They did not have to walk to get what they needed. The shops needed to serve their supply needs need not be next door or even in the town. In fact it made sense to place a group of suppliers in a place with cheap land that was within easy driving distance to two or more population centers. That's unfortunately not a recipe for a village, that's a strip mall. Since each community needs roughly the same things, those unattractive wide places on dull roads all contain essentially the same drab mix of businesses.

I wish we didn't have to go all the way to New England or the San Juan Islands to find some of the few villages we have in this country.

bilboburgler

The Swiss gun holding concept was driven by them having a true militia. That is everyone had to have a gun to protect the state. These used to be held at home but are now mainly held in central stations. Hence the ownership analogy is very different.

Coquelicot

nukesafe, Pennsylvania has villages, though not as you and I would use the term, for some place small and charming.

By definition in PA "village" refers to specific areas that don't have their own local government, that are part of some bigger governmental unit. I've never heard anybody in PA use the term village, even people who live in one and every day drive past road signs that say "Village of X." I never even noticed the "village" part of the signs till my husband worked for local government and I learned (and forgot) all kinds of stuff.

Fodorite018

I think one can find unique places in every area of the world, you may just need to look for it and get further from the larger cities.

nuke safe--That is my experience as well, that there are a lot of people that carry here, but most of the time you don't notice it. I have had the same experience where I didn't know someone was carrying until they moved just right and then I noticed. Not a big deal for me. We love to hike and backpack, and seeing people carry on a trail is normal. I don't, yet, but have considered.

Melnq8

Curious why someone would feel the need to carry a gun while hiking...or for any reason really.

Fodorite018

Melnq8--Often times it is for bears and cougars, which are plentiful here. But also just self protection. I know many women who do, especially if they are solo backpacking. A ranger at Mt Rainier told us one time when picking up our backcountry permit that we were allowed to carry, but not discharge, and he gave us a wink. Yes, not allowed in a national park, but if it comes down to a bear vs me, I'm going to do all I can to protect myself. We do carry bear spray, but that isn't always practical.