PatrickLondon

In my understanding of the current Italian government, that was presumably the point of the exercise. But of course the Commission will be on the alert for certain third parties trying to pick off individual countries one by one.

flanneruk

Bilbo:
Interesting to note that Italy has illegally just agreed a deal with China which has got Brussels in a tis, "what to do, oh my hairs and whiskers".

I think you've got this subtly wrong on two counts:
- it's not illegal for us to agree new trade deals before Brexit: they simply can't be implemented till then. We DO have limited new deals (effective the minute we leave) with Switzerland, the Faeroes and (it appears from this week's announcements), Chile . The reason we've got next to no deals so far is partly that no-one but us is in a hurry to sign with us, but mostly because deals just take forever to agree - and every potential partner wants their pound of flesh. Some (like Australia) just want to offer us less than they offer the EU: others (like the US and India) are interested only in signing deals on terms that only a nutcase (as Fox is, but his boss isn't) would accept and others (like China) are as lukewarm about us as we are about them.
- Italy's not agreed anything illegal: the China Belt and Road stuff doesn't really break EU rules, it's just at odds with the policies of the rest of the EU. Dealing with "difficult" member states is routine for the EU (at least since we joined): accepting investments from a problematic partner doesn't threaten the EU's existence in the way "independent" free trade deals would.

But Italy IS pissing the rest of the EU off, much as Greece did. That, I think, is why they're being so patient with us. Our obsession with obeying the rules actually a great deal easier to deal with.

flanneruk

Patrick
"To get to that point she'd have to go back on all the "red lines" she proclaimed at the outset"

Something Mrs May seems very relaxed about contemplating. Why else do you think she's so keen to keep "No Deal" on the agenda - especially after the hash Fox and Grayling have made in creating a post-No Deal world?

F&G are clearly stupid enough to screw things up so massively. Do you really think she's stupid enough to let them - unless she actually wants them to screw up?

tailsock

I, for one, can't wait for a post Brexit visit to the UK. A cheaper pound is definitely attractive.....I'll probably wait til the Elizabeth Tower (Big Ben) at the Houses of Parliament is fully restored first.

JamilaZ

Massive protest going on in central London right now. I am hours from departing for London.

thursdaysd

Pity, you'll miss it.

JamilaZ

Looks like there will be another one on Friday, March 29. I'll be around.

flanneruk

"Looks like there will be another one on Friday, March 29. I'll be around"

I'm afraid you're confused.

The March 23 demo was one of those million-plus, generation-defining, arrivals of Middle England on the streets of Central London to demonstrate its distaste for a perceived fundamental government mistake. I can remember just two on the same scale in the past 20 years: the September 2002 Countryside March, protesting against government apathy to rural issues and the February 2003 protests against the Iraq War.

They take months to organise and can only happen at weekends: Middle England has businesses, local councils and hospitals to run and children and aged parents to look after (or bring on the march): our light-touch policing needs trained professionals to mange the crowds. Failed, unemployment-ridden, states like France may have enough idlers to bring out on endless, pointless, demos at a second's notice, and enough thugs in their army to stand over them with machine guns: our real protests need space and organisation..

On March 29, a small group of Leavers will arrive in Parliament Square after a two week March through Depressed England: a stunt originally designed to celebrate Britain's intended leaving the EU that day. Though they've had three years to organise that departure, their deranged non-leaders have lost the plot,and failed. We've no idea what will happen that day: but we certainly won't be leaving. Though they'd been told about the sunny uplands leaving the EU would bring, and the queue of countries keen to replace the EU, they're finding virtually no-one's taking responsibility for the Leavers' catastrophe.

So the event has turned into a "We insist we leave" affair. The deluded fools really don't understand what's happened, but are convinced they've somehow been betrayed. Which is true: their ring-leaders are now reduced to bluster - and to blaming uncooperative foreigners for not following their lunatic predictions.

If you really want to take pleasure in their tragedy. you can book at https://www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/29th-...ts-57650448042

The rest of London will be to busy playing its part in a thriving, safe, society to take part in a small minority's last rites..

Tulips

The comment from one of the demonstrators yesterday; 'i'm fed up with hearing May talk about those who voted to leave'.
As if the 48% who voted to remain have no further say whatsoever in what happens.

Thanks for the link Flanneruk, I will be in London next week. Will bring my EU flag...

greytop13

Flanneruk--Another brilliant post. Thank you.

bilboburgler

bilbo, subtle, burgler that's me

jc_uk

Belittle all you like but it's a democratic process. The result of the referendum was to leave, agree with it or not, that was the result of a free and democratic vote. This is what happens in a democracy, there will always be those who are upset by the result but hey, that's what happens.

chartley

Yes, J.C.. That's what the majority side always say. It's noticeable that Brexiters have stopped arguing for the advantages of their side of the argument, and now simply say "We won - so there it is".

I might have written "their plan" instead of "their side of the argument", but it has become clear that they have no plan, and that all the promises are coming to nothing. But hey, ho, that's the way it is.

jc_uk

Because it's true. What right has anyone got in attempting to subvert a democratic vote simply because it didn't go the way they'd have liked it to?

I believe wholeheartedly in democracy. On occasions votes haven't gone the way I'd have liked them to but I accept the result nonetheless because what's the alternative?

thursdaysd

Doing the vote over, just like they did with May's plan in the Commons. And while a slim majority of the people voting voted for Brexit (or, rather, the false image promulgated by its supporters), a majority of the voting age population did not. And the voting age population has changed since then.

jc_uk

So what if the voting age population has changed. People have become eligible to vote since the last general election, should we call another one simply because some of them don't like the current elected representatives? Notwithstanidng that the youngest band of voters during the referendum were the one's with the lowest turnout, appears they want their cake and to eat it.

A slim majority or not, it was a majority and in a democracy the will of the majority wins, like it or not. You simply cannot subvert a democratic vote because it didn't go in your favour.

Barbara

The vote was non-binding, an advisory vote only. The government was totally wrong to accept it as the "will of the people' when it was not advertised as such before the vote. The government lied. How many people didn't bother to vote because of the "advisory" status? Who would expect the government to pay any attention? After all, Cameron only threw the party to keep his backbenchers happy, not because of any desire to do what was good for the country.

Many of the people who did vote believed the lies they were told by those Tory backbenchers and the Russians via social media. Some of them may have realised what fools they were to believe all that hype, some are even more determined than ever to Leave. If people voted now, they would know what the real consequences of their vote would be and that's a far cry from the lies they based their votes on two years ago.

thursdaysd

"One man, one vote, one time".

jc_uk

Oh come on, not that old chestnut. The vote was simple, in or out of the EU? There was nothing about non-binding or advisory, people voted on the simple notion that what they voted for would be enacted, not something for the government to ponder over and decide their next move. This non-binding, advisory B******* is nothing more than some desperate attempt by some to try and weasel out of the result.

There were lies on both sides, there was misinformation and disinformation and fearmongering all round, no-one came out of it smelling of roses. It is the biggest cock up in recent history however what I take exception to is the behaviour of the EU with their threats and sabre rattling, a complete reluctance to approach the divorce with any semblance of sensibilty or a will to conclude a fair arrangement for all. Punsihment has been the fully admitted approach and one that I find entirely disgraceful.

Heimdall