Lovejoy

I just received a notice from Wells ,that as of March 1 They are upping their fee on foreign transactions to 3% on top of the MasterCard 1% .This 3% fee is nothing but pure profit for Wells as they incur no expense on foreign transactions.Thankfully there are alternatives to paying this charge from other financial institutions which I will use instead.

Kelbert

Hi Lovejoy--

I got the same "terms update" yesterday. I will be using my MBNA credit card while in Paris, as they only charge the 1% VISA rate. May cancel my Wells Fargo VISA...that 3% is ridiculous. Do you know what they charge for ATM withdrawals? My checking/savings accounts are with WF...and I will be using my check/ATM card for the occasional ATM withdrawals.

Huitres

On a slightly similar note.....I received some interesting mail last week re: my AMEX credit card. Apparently, AMEX is being sued by a LiPuma party for having charged inconsistent/irregular conversion fees for foreign currencies (purchases, ATM withdrawals, etc). This is a huge case (30 million) that, pending the outcome, will ultimately reimburse all its AMEX card holders that used their card overseas between 1999 and 2004. I registered my information with the case's counsel, concurring that I was indeed in that very grouping. I hope to recoup some of the monies AMEX took when arbitrarily changing the limits up and down (between 1-4%) during that time period.

I think this is worth further investigation into Wells Fargo's increase. Perhaps if you have more info on the LiPuma case, you might get them to back down on the increase? Just some food for thought....

Castleton

Is this new fee going to be charged on ATM withdrawals (ATM only type cards, already at $3 per withdrawal) or only on credit cards thru WFB?

Lovejoy

Regarding Debit cards, I just spoke with the Wells Foreign Transaction Office and they told me the exchange rate is determined by the foreign bank and that they don't add any extra percentage rate on top .This only pertains to PIN based ATM withdrawls.
Right now Wells charges a $3.00 per witdrawal flat fee.But I was informed that will rise to $5.00 on April 1.

Kelbert

I just spoke to Wells Fargo and they informed me that to use your ATM/Debit/Check card at an ATM machine, the following charges will be incurred:

-fee charged by European bank you are using

-a $3.00 surcharge from Wells Fargo

-a 2% "conversion" fee from Wells Fargo

Sounds fishy....why do some banks charge and others don't??

Robespierre

I said <i>ave atque vale</i> to Wells Fargo about three years ago, and never looked back.

Charles Schwab and Salomon Smith Barney both charge <b>ZERO</b> percent, give me bank rate on the exchange, and charge me a dollar for the transaction.

So tell Wells Fargo that you have a &quot;Terms Update&quot; for them, too.

Lovejoy

Kelbert it appears we talked to two different people,and got two different answers.Perhaps if a thid person checks with them we could add a third opinion!

Kelbert

Looks that way Lovejoy! I may call back tomorrow and see what they say!
Anyone else hear anything different from WF???

Robespierre

American Express charges something called Foreign Exchange Conversion Factor to give them some leeway on fluctuations in the foreign currency between the time the transaction is posted and when it is cleared at end-of-day. If the currency goes down since they paid you your drachmas, they're covered by the FXCF. If it goes up, they pocket the difference.

Amex's defense (which will prevail, IMO) will be that the FXCF they charge is pegged to the volatility of the currency market. If the excursions have been large recently, they'll crank up the FX in anticipation of beating it.

The reason I know all this internal stuff is that I designed and wrote the currency conversion portion of their foreign transaction switch in the '80s.

TexasAggie

We used Wells Fargo last June. We were told we would be charged $3 for ATM withdrawals... curiously, any withdrawal from &quot;Banca di Roma&quot; only charged $2. The others did indeed charge $3.
We have since switched to a credit union. They charge no fees over the bank rate, and $1-$3 charge for withdrawals from out of network ATMs.
I don't believe European ATMs charge fees either... someone correct me on this if I am wrong!

Giovanna

Unless things have changed, it is my understanding that European banks do not charge a fee for ATM usage, and that certainly has been our personal experience.

It seems most banks are upping their profits with raises in fees, raising interest rates, etc. Have had notices to that effect from several we use. I was most disappointed that MBNA tried to raise our interest rate (an adamant phone call got that reversed in our case), but they are now adding a percentage to ATM usage in Europe. Haven't fought with them yet over that outrage, but will when trip plans for this year progress. We always took MBNA to Europe because they didn't charge and more recently Capital One for the same reason.

And people complain about government regulations. If some sort of cap isn't placed on these greedy banks where will it end?

Robespierre

Giovanna, let the market decide. It's called <b>capitalism</b>, and it's the best economic system in the world, which we defended against all comers for fifty years during the Cold War.

If you don't like your bank's policies, procedures, or rates, find another bank. Posting on Fodor's will not affect their greed significantly.

Huitres

Thanks for the insight, Robespierre. I don't want AMEX to win for obvious reasons. Alas, it does look like they covered their backs with this FXCF to allow for such fluctuations in the economic market. But again, what is the range that they can &quot;crank up&quot; the FX if these are the inconsistencies that result in price/conversion differentials? Isn't there a limit on this range (or a cap?)

Robespierre

Every day, corporations make a cynical business calculation that goes like this:

Let A = the amount of money we will lose because customers would rather quit us than pay [fill in the blank with the name of some type of gouging]

Let B = the amount of money we will make if our remaining customers will accede to [same]

<b>If B &gt; A</b>, then implement the gouging.

jsmith

Wells Fargo will put it all in writing and give enough lead time for you to change your banking and credit card affiliation before it goes in effect. The nice thing about the capitalist system is we have choice.

Now if we only had the same with out eduation system.

jbee

We were in Venice last Sept. and withdrew money regularly using our Wells Fargo ATM card. We received the bank conversion rate on any money we withdrew and were charged $3.00/transaction by Wells Fargo. We were never charged a fee by any of the Italian banks.

If we would have used our ATM/Debit card as a cc, we would have gotten the bank rate conversion and been charged 4% of the purchase in fees (1% Visa, 3% Wells Fargo).

I did a ton of research into cc's before going and MBNA was the only one I could find with no annual fee that did not charge an extra % for conversion.

bettyo70

Robespierre,

Is it difficult to get a Charles Schwab or Salomon Barney card?

Do you use them as credit cards AND as ATM cards?

Thanks!

mikemo

Check out USAA Federal Savings Bank: No annual fee CCs with the 1% V and MC currency conversion fees offset by the 1% MC and 1 1/2% V rebates and 15 free (actually rebated fee) out of service ATM w/d's a month.
The Banks obviously know that 40% of the US adult population cannot balance a check book, lol.
Also, be aware that many overseas banks will convert CC charges from local currency to USDs at a very unfavorable exchange rate - simply refuse the conversion and demand to pay in local currency.
M

TexasAggie

When I was describing the $2 and $3 fees we were charged, I should have been more clear.
The fees were charged by Wells Fargo, not a European bank.

On our bank statement, it listed the banks where the ATM withdrawals occured next to the charge.

&quot;Banco di Firenze ATM Withdrawal Fee&quot;...$3

What we noticed was that Wells Fargo only imposed a $2 fee on all of the withdrawals we made at &quot;Banco di Roma&quot;.

So, if you are a WF customer in Rome, try to use those ATMs!