thursdaysd

"I can understand your POV, but I like people around. I think it generally discourages vandalism and burglary."

You're assuming the parade of strangers aren't liable to commit vandalism and burglary. Not to mention late parties and littering.

iris1745

It seems to me that the NEW regulations are now in affect.

So, they work. What's the problem?

In the past, before the new regulations, scare tactics were prevalent.

Fine, I just objected with all the diengenious comments by a few.

Happy Days for the city of Paris.

I only wish I could return.

Envierges

Again. These are not NEW regulations. The only changes are the fines for violations becoming more stringent going from a slap on the wrist to an amount almost requiring the sale of the apartment in order to pay the fine. The next blow will most probably be the reduction of allowed composite rental time to 90 days instead of 120. Paris is already lobbying for this.

Envierges

What is new is the requiring of registration of legal apartments. No registration number=not legal.

NewbE

<I know many people don’t agree, but I would rather live next to a vacation home that has temporary tenants most of the year, than a vacation home that is empty and devoid of life most of the year. Which would be the case for many of the Airbnb owners I know, and I’d imagine the case for little studios like the one hpeabody rented. If they can’t rent when they’re not there, they’re not going to sell either, and it’s unlikely they would sell to a full time local resident anyway because of the property value.>
I agree 100%, marvelousmouse.

NewbE

<the usual suspects who attack every time we warn about the issues re renting apartments in Paris, >
janisj, please stop using the word "attack" to describe a disagreement. There is no need to start a personal fight here.

As mm pointed out, the renter wasn't stranded, nor driven out of his apartment by cops--which was one of the things I recall being warned could happen, lol.

I have had VRBO's cancelled because the owners sold the place; this is more like that.

marvelousmouse

Envierges- curious- given that you mentioned they’re already lobbying for a reduction, what’s the end game for Paris? I would have thought they’d go straight to no short term rentals at all. How did 120 Days come into the equation? Compromise?

Agreed, Newbe. 6 months is a long time and when you reserve that far in advance, I think you’re aware anything could happen. I’ve had hotels shut down or change ownership (and therefore change policies), and I’ve even had a rental apartment sold on me, luckily right before I signed a new year long lease, because the new owners were not people I would have wanted to deal with.

Leely2

I am sorry, hpeabody! I hope you find something you like.

Like iBobi, I live in a heavily touristed city with extremely high rents and extremely high property values. Short-term rentals are forbidden in our building (six units, five owner-occupied, one rented to long-term tenants). One unit is owned by people who live full-time elsewhere and are only here about 20% of the year. They are my upstairs neighbors and it is awesome!!! They are quiet and respectful anyway (older people in their 60s), but they are also almost never here. I love it.

Would absolutely not want a stream of tourists in my building. Nothing against tourists, but that's what hotels are for.

Envierges

"How did 120 Days come into the equation?"

The city fathers of Paris about the time of the financial crisis wanted to give people the option of making a bit of money on the sly by renting out their apts during the times these owners were out of town. Sort of a win win situation or a financial aid package given to residents in a tough time. Parisians leave during the summer. Why not turn those apts. into tourist housing during the tourist filled Paris summers? No one foresaw the enormity this decision would have. Foreigners buying up property to rent out because the return on investment in property was greater than the return on other kinds of investment. The increasing of property prices . . . .all of that that you've read about in Barcelona, Venice, London, New York and many other tourist destinations.

Who knew?

Paris, to my knowledge, was the only place that allowed a 120 day exception to the no short term rental laws common in other places. Consequently, the short term rental situation has been more of a problem in Paris because there was no way to differentiate between legal and illegal rentals except by patrolling in person areas involved. This became impossible considering that the number of short term rental apartments according to various sources varies between 40,000 and 80,000. As the number of short term illegal rental apartments increased so did the complaints by other building residents. Something had to be done.

dreamon

Does anybody know whether it is possible to check whether the registration number quoted is legitimate or not (i.e. not just a fake made up number)? A website lookup?

marvelousmouse

Thanks for explaining that. Makes sense, I wasn’t aware that Parisians commonly left during the summers.

Sarastro

I am not aware of any method for a potential renter to verify the authenticity of a displayed city registration number. The numbers are issued subsequent to a request submitted on line by the tax owner of record.

Two possible traps:

1. The registration was issued to an owner of a property in which neither he, nor anyone else, is a full time resident. I have noticed a few airbnb listings with registration numbers which look an awful lot like pieds-a-terres.

2. Property owners could illegally exceed the 120 day annual rental cap.

In either case, there will now be a paper trail for investigators to follow and eventually fine an owner for illegal rental activity and/or revoke his registration number.

As a potential visitor looking for a vacation rental apartment, if you choose an apartment displaying a registration number in its listing, you have done all that you can do.

dreamon

Thanks, Sarastro

Envierges

Not all Parisians leave, but long summer vacations are still common. Someone has to stay to serve the aperos, make the sandwiches, dish out the ice cream and man the ticket booths. Paris in August has a very different feeling.

kerouac

The idea that Parisians leave the city in the summer is outdated. When the minimum paid vacation was raised to 5 weeks in 1982, things already began to change when many people decided to take 3 weeks in the summer + 2 weeks at another time of year, since there are 2-week school holidays every month and a half during the school year.

Many large companies give more than 5 weeks, with extra days for seniority, and then there is the matter of the 35-hour work week law, which started in 2002. Up until then the work week was 39 hours (since 1982). Most companies decided to keep a 39-hour schedule or an only slightly reduced week and give compensatory days (called RTT) in exchange, usually from 12 to 24 days.

When I stopped working, I had 55 days off a year. Most people are not that lucky, but people are now in the habit of taking a week off here and there, taking 4-day weekends often, etc. The thought of taking a month off at a time is completely obsolete. And factories no longer close for a month like they once did.

Anyway, going back to the original problem, people who bought an apartment thinking they could rent it as a vacation property most of the year are bound to be disappointed, but they <b>can</b> rent it on a 9-month lease to a student (and the government guarantees that the rent will be paid). This leaves the apartment available for their own use, basically from July to the end of September.

marvelousmouse

3 weeks may still be part of summer, but it is a lot less than 120 days. So I may be still a bit confused. If the modern Parisian gets 5 weeks off at most, that doesn’t explain 120 days. Even five weeks is less than half of 90 days.

But I would guess that if they can afford to take 5 weeks off, as well as own a desirable piece of real estate, you are probably talking about at very least upper middle class if not 1%ers. There must be a very large portion of the population that falls between that and the folks that “dish out the ice cream”.

fuzzbucket

It is possible that the property owner has a clause in which the lessee may not rent out the property. So, it is possible that there is no registration number.

Even if you can't find something in your preferred area, I suggest you find an AirBnB with a 13-digit registration number.

The worst thing would be having to take the Metro, which is very conveninent.

Envierges

Remember the 120 days is a composite total. Weekends here, long weekends there, weeks here . . . .to add up to a total of no more than 120 days. Some owners have slept at a friend's to take advantage of their chances to rent to visitors. Yes, this is a generous allowance and if an apartment can be rented for a time, it's a good supplementary income producer . . . almost allowing for a long vacation.

Among some of my friends long vacations are made possible by sharing vacation quarters.

kerouac

One of the French news channels (LCI) announced today that fines for illegal apartment rentals in Paris have totalled 490,000 euros for the first quarter of 2018. The grand total for the year of 2016 was 200,000 euros and the total for 2017 was 1.3 million euros. Those of you who have been taking the risk of having your apartment reservation yanked out from under you by not looking for the official registration numbers can consider themselves forewarned.

Macross

Exactly, those apartments would rent out monthly at such a high rate that the "normal" renter needing a house would not be able to afford. I also live in a tourist area and the snowbirds rent out while they are gone but not to locals. They can't afford to buy or rent.
Key West workers come in from Stock island or live ten to an apartment. They literally hot rack working shift hours. Stock island is now becoming gentrified so where are those people going to move? The rich get richer and bla bla bla. I rented last month and the apartment was owned by a professor in Arizona. She wants it available to herself when she can get away. No long term rental. It was a sweet apartment in the second but the neighbour downstairs was a pitb. He asked us not to run our fan at night. We love white noise as the street was loud. No washing machine after 5 or dishwasher after 6. No shoes. I was not happy and we are a good guest.