Yes, it's kind of dizzying, which is often how we roll.

Travelers are myself (59 ), DH (60), DS (30). I have minor mobility issues (can climb moderate stairs and walk fairly long distances, can't use escalators, have a cane), DS is quirky with minor delays but is a functional adult, and DH is kind of a giant wiggle, even in late middle age.

I can kind of read Italian, and can understand a little spoken, but can't produce any. DH can also understand a little spoken Italian, and knows some written words. We are trying to brush up on it a little. DS has rudimentary German and has been told to brush up on that and not worry about Italian or French. I can read French reasonably, but don't speak or understand spoken very well.

I should probably add that we started with the idea of Rome at Christmas, and somewhere along the way it got dropped and turned into this. We will do more Italy another time.

So far what we have is this--fly out of Philadelphia on December 13th, change at Dublin, fly into Milan Linate, arriving on the 14th. 14th, 15th, and 16th is at the IH Hotels Milano Ambasciatori, Milan itinerary is largely roaming around the historic parts by the Duomo, visiting the Christmas market, going to the Galleria Victor Emmanuel, and ogling shop windows.

On the 17th, we are taking a train to Tirano, staying at the Hotel Bernina, and taking the Bernina Express to Chur on the 18th.

I don't have this booked, but was thinking we'd spend the night of the 18th in Chur. It has a Christmas market, but only seems to run on Friday and Saturday, sadly. I was wondering if it might just make sense to go on to Zurich from there on the 18th, but we'll just have gotten off a train, and while we LOVE trains, there are limits, and Chur looks cool.

Don't have this booked yet either, but was thinking to spend the night of the 19th in Zurich, with Christmas markets as the goal.

On the 20th, it should be TGV Lyria to Paris. In Paris, we'll be at Paris Marriott Rive Gauche for the 20th and 21st, which a relative is booking for us on points. We're going to try to make the big Christmas market in the Tuileries, and want to get to Galleries Lafayette .plus things we may randomly wander into.

On the 22nd it's Eurostar to London, where we are at Residence Inn by Marriott Tower Bridge for the 22nd, 23rd, 24th, and 25th, checking out on the 26th. We are planning to spend the night of the 26th out at Heathrow, which I'm hoping to book on Avios. There will certainly be a fair amount of wandering along the Thames (Borough Market, Hayes Galleria, Southbank, etc.), probably on the afternoon and evening of the 22nd, and at other odd moments. Morning of the 23rd will be at the Imperial War Museum in Lambeth, which is a life goal of DS, afternoon of the 23d is undecided, but may be at various West End stores or Covent Garden (or possibly random wandering around Westminster). We are at the Residence Inn because it has a full kitchen, and at some point I will acquire groceries, possibly delivered, for Christmas, since it's my understanding that virtually nothing will be open from about 6pm on the 24th until about 8am on the 26th. I'm probably going to see if I can get Sky Garden tickets for relatively early on the 26th.

We are flying back to Philadelphia on the 27th. None of the trains or attractions are booked yet. We are keeping museums to a minimum, since they often don't work well for DH, Outside or outside-ish attractions are always better, although trains and boats are also good for him. Golden Tours has a Christmas Day Thames Boat cruise and I was kind of thinking about it. We are also trying to keep this budget oriented, but it is a bit of a bucket list trip.

In cities we'll mostly walk or do surface transportation. Unfamiliar subway systems can be difficult for me. We might try the Metro, since I think it's a lot more like New York's system, but the Tube is very difficult, and I avoid it.

None of the trains are booked yet and don't think any of them are yet available to book.

Suggestions?

Just an FYI - the Christmas Market in Chur is small and nothing to get excited about. I've spent many Christmases in Switzerland and have found the markets a shadow of what one finds in other countries (Basel the exception). Having said that, I have not yet visited the Christmas markets in Zurich.

Thanks! At least online, the Zurich ones look good. We'd been a little unsure about whether the on in Chur was worth rearranging things, and sounds like it's not.

IMO it doesn't make much sense to stay half a day at Tirano. There is neither much to do nor much to see.
On December 18th, half of the Bernina Expres ride, namely the leg from Pontresina to Chur will be more or less in the darkness, becuse it will get night around 5pm.

ALTERNATIVES:
If it MUST be a Express rain with panoramic windows and compulsory seat reservation:
Leave Milan Centrale at 9.20 or 10.20, have lunch at Tirano and go then by Benina Express to Pontresina. Sleep at Pontresina, Celerina, Samedan or St. Moritz.
Leave St. Moritz at 8.39 by Glacier Express to Chur ar 10.45

or travel by STANDARD TRAINS, may be like this:
Milan C dp 8.20 - Tirano ar 10.52, dp 11.00 - Alp Grum ar 12.10 Have lunch in the panoramic railway station restaurant of Alp Grum. Alp Grum dp 13.08 - Chur ar 16.04, change at Pontresina and Samedan (small stations with short ways).

FWIW, I don't think it's necessary to take the Bernina express -- the standard trains are fine.

If Christmas markets are the primary reason for these cities, you may be disappointed. None of them are known for Christmas markets. For that you would need to go to Germany, Austria and Alsace region in France. Basel is pretty good too as another poster mentioned.

Just quick -- Unfortunately none of the three Residence Inns in London are in great locations. Two near each other are your Tower Bridge and nearby London Bridge. Both are close to half a mile walk to London Bridge Station and almost a mile to Borough Market. The other one is out west a fair walk from Earl's Court. However -- there are other ApartmentHotels in better/more central locations -- Fraser Suites in Queens Gate; several Citadines in good locations (Holborn, Trafalgar Square, South Kens.); Wilde Aparthotels in Covent Garden and Aldgate; and other brands.

As to Paris at Christmas (we just did), Montmartre is jam packed with crowds eliminating my wish to get back to Place du Tertre for a small piece of art. The small but lovely Musee du Montmartre (down the hill behind) was great for an hour. Sainte-Chappelle has concerts that wk, we went day after Christmas, buy tix online before Fall. Also the Christmas Mkt at the ET is two sided with many stalls BUT it too was jam packed, like elbow to elbow, so after about 10' of it, we left & quickly crossed over to the Right Bank. The Mkt at the end of the Tuileries in Place de la Concorde is lovely. Further down toward the Louvre is a carnival with rides and food stalls, again to be avoided. If you have favorite restaurants to visit, book them as son as possible. We didnt reserve at Cafe Angelina (always a must for us) and on a lovely sunny Sunday morning, waited over half an hour to be seated, but worth every minute and bite of food. Also G-L now has three venues: women, men, and home. Again, totally mobbed with crowds,pushing, shoving, they even closed the upper terrace. Lines outside waiting to charge in upon opening. Would not recommend even trying. Rather, visit Printemps a block to the west, or even better, the oldest and the BEST of les grand magasins: Le Bon Marche in the 7th, with a visit to their Epicerie at rear across street -- divine. Grab a bite there or across the street at Hotel Lutetia, again historical and magnificent. G7 is an Uber-like car service in Paris that worked fabulous for us. Put the app on your phone w a credit card, delete when you leave town - was well recommended on this Forum. No metros to worry about. Sounds like an exciting (but exhausting) trip -- enjoy!!!

We'll be staying in Tirano the night of the 17th, so we should be able to be on a nice early Bernina express on the 18th (hopefully either 7:41 or 9:00), and have pretty much the whole thing in daylight.

I'm sure the standard trains are fine (and probably wonderful by American standards) but It MUST be Bernina Express. It's a massive, pining for years, arrange a bunch of trip around, bucket list item for DH. You can't imagine how many videos he's watched. He is aware of the Glacier Express, but he really wants Bernina, so Bernina it is.

We had thought about stopping at St. Moritz, but while all Switzerland is obviously expensive, it looked particularly bad, and DH really wants to ride Bernina Express the whole way.

I have been wondering a little if we should stay in Chur, though.

You're absolutely right with the location being a bit out of the way (we considered the "Kensington" one too, and thought Tower Bridge was likely best).. I think we'll be getting our exercise! Fortunately I can do that kind of distance pretty comfortably still as city walking as long as I use my cane and don't do anything silly (like climbing medieval staircases). I had checked out some other brands, but a lot don't have a full kitchen, it's a kitchenette, and the third adult gets you into a substantially more expensive unit, Pricewise, the Residence Inn definitely seemed to be my best value for what we needed, and it's got an oven. Normally I might not be that insistent on having one, but over Christmas we're definitely going to need it.

Now I just need to figure how grocery deliveries work with the desk (must we be in the lobby waiting for it--will they take it and call up to us, etc,?). We'll probably do little bits of food shopping as we go around, but I don't think I want to burn a lot of time doing a big Christmas shop in person. I'm also thinking I want to set that delivery up as far out as I can (preferably from my very own computer in the US) so as to get a delivery slot when we need it, etc.

Thanks! Will definitely take the crowds under advisement.

It sounds like this may be a very short visit to Galeries Lafayette. We do want to at least nip in and see its big tree and the dome.

DH was actually very taken with the big carnival. At least on YouTube, it appears to be a bizarre Christmas fever dream, and he would very much like to see it in person. Hopefully it won't be too ridiculously crowded, or that may also be a short visit. We're figuring Sunday afternoon/evening, not the Saturday night, so hopefully not too bad.

G-7 might be a good idea. I keep hearing nutty things about taxis (and fake taxis). We'll walk as much as we can, but sometimes you just can't. Glad you had a wonderful time!

Sounds like you've considered most of the issues. Too bad Dolphin Square has changed their business model to corporate accommodations - it would have been perfect for you

You say you can walk the distances from the RI -- but what if it is raining sideways?

Maybe consider eating out on Christmas Day and making do with a kitchenette for the rest of your time?? Just a thought.

Hopefully not sideways. If it's really bad, it'll be a plan B of some kind (possibly a taxi), but we're fairly prepared for rain and will bring appropriate clothes. DS and I went in December a few years ago and we did get very wet one day while walking, but we were fairly philosophical about it.

I took a look at Christmas day options briefly, but DH doesn't do well with set menus, and what's available is expensive and limited (obviously). There are some cool Christmas day tours with traditional lunch, but those are of course VERY expensive, we're back to the set menu issue, and you're mostly just driving past stuff because it's obviously not open. Really just seemed easier to cook and relax. Take a nice walk if the weather's decent, everyone can have what they like to eat, and while I don't know how elaborate it's going to be, I definitely think there'll be something we want that needs the oven, even it's just part baked rolls or little appetizers..

I stayed not too far from there a couple of years ago (little closer to Tower Bridge) and was reasonably happy. Of course it was summer, but hopefully the weather is relatively cooperative on this trip.

I'm not familiar with Dolphin Square, but I think there was at least one other thing I'd seen mentioned on a thread here that seemed like it had changed its model. I was actually a little surprised by how few extended stay type things I was seeing, especially more oriented to family groups, rather than singles or couples. I don't know if there's not that much demand, or if something else is going on, but I was happy enough to get this at the price we're paying.

Response to post 9:
The trains leaving Tirano at 7.41 and 9.00 are just standard trains. The latter can easily be reached from Varenna the same morning.

I assume you know this, but thought I'd mention it anyway...the 'regular trains' mentioned above follow the same route as the Bernina Express trains, using the same tracks. They're less expensive, less crowded, run more frequently and offer the same views. They also provide commentary, but less so than the BE train. One can get on and off the regular trains, not so the BE tourist trains, unless it's a scheduled stop, such as at Alp Grum, a scenic stop on the Bernina Pass.

The BE train is a 'tourist train' that has more commentary, slightly bigger panoramic windows and requires a seat reservation. I've been on regular trains that have had BE carriages attached to them and once had one such carriage entirely to ourselves during a winter trip, this without paying any supplement.

If the BE tourist train is a must for you, so be it, just wanted you to be aware of the very minor differences.

St Mortiz is indeed expensive, and a bit of a concrete city, but makes sense for a stop over. It also has a small Christmas Market, but do check the dates as it may be on weekends only. It's home to one of my favorite bakeries and there's a nice walk around the lake. Do check to see if there are any Christmas concerts taking place during your stay should you decide to overnight there.

I'm not a fan of Chur personally, but it makes a great base from which to visit some beautiful ski areas such as Lenzerheide, which is only a 25 minute bus ride away, and a beautiful drive at that. I once had the best white wine soup of my life in Chur. It's a small and manageable city, but keep in mind it has two train stations, so pick your accommodation wisely.

Lenzerheide hosts the Magic Forest open air winter festival each year:

https://arosalenzerheide.swiss/en/Le...st-Lenzerheide

The website is listing them all as "Bernina Express", at least at a quick glance. This would explain a couple of things. I don't think the commentary or the limited stops are terribly important to DH, it's that panorama car, so as long as we're on a train I can get it reserved on, we should be good. I tried to quote, and for some reason it was not being cooperative.

We definitely won't be skiing. DS and I would probably like white wine soup. If we stay in Chur, we'll almost certainly be in the Ibis, since it seemed to be just about the only reasonable option that wasn't a hostel.

Thanks!

And now it's working!

Just wanted to add, that Magic Forest looks wonderful, although I don't know if we're up to it.

Just an FYI, London is completely shut down over Christmas. Public transport stops early on the 24th, resumes slowly on the 26th, and is non-existent on Christmas Day. You will not find things open like restaurants or grocery stores on the 25th and the other days reservations are hard to come by because the delivery companies also basically shut down.

Christmas Day is a great day to get out and walk but you must have restaurant reservations for all three days for all meals.

We're planning to cook over the holiday. We were aware that things shut much more thoroughly than they do in the US.

I'm hoping to get a delivery slot from Tesco or the like for the 23rd or early on the 24th, but if I have to go and get groceries myself, we'll live. We'll also probably pick up little bits while we're out and about. A lot of why we settled for the slightly weird location is that there's a full kitchen in the unit (including an oven). I'm not going to do a lot of elaborate scratch cooking, but UK supermarkets seem to do well with sort of "semi-prepared" stuff.

And because we vacillate, we're now considering swapping out Zurich and the overnight in Chur, for Stuttgart, possibly with a detour to the medieval Christmas market in Esslingen, for various reasons. We're also stuck between staying in London on the 26th, or out at Heathrow. Car services seem to be quite a bit cheaper on the 27th, and we don't have a super early flight.