Visiting Turkey for Fun and Adventure, Oasis or Chaos
Oct 11th, 2015, 05:56 PM
#81
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,217
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
OC I have been following the news from Ankara with a sick and saddened heart. My thoughts and prayers are with all the people of Turkey. Thank you for your ever insightful comments.
"I will not allow my and your "pursuit of happiness" to be marred or hindered by these disgusting cretin. We shall all continue to travel and enjoy life and enjoy knowing of each others' happiness even if we do not get a chance to always meet each other." - it takes courage to hold onto a vision of a happiness when things are dark - thank you
"I will not allow my and your "pursuit of happiness" to be marred or hindered by these disgusting cretin. We shall all continue to travel and enjoy life and enjoy knowing of each others' happiness even if we do not get a chance to always meet each other." - it takes courage to hold onto a vision of a happiness when things are dark - thank you
Oct 14th, 2015, 01:45 AM
#82
After a number of new threads questioning the safety of visiting Turkey despite this thread and relating the concerns posed by close friends and relatives in the United States, I started thinking that this thread is geared more towards the experienced traveler and the globally exposed reader.
I have assumed that all the readers are up-to-date on the world political scene at least to a certain extent, have a basic knowledge of geography and maps and can at least refer to a map and locate areas of conflict, war and other types of problems.
Now, I realize that I was being presumptious. For many North American travelers, their visit to Turkey is is shouded in a mist of confusion, mystery, adventure, worry and false assumptions, frequently bolstered by well-wishing but totally ignorant advisers.
It is unfortunate that the travel planner does not google basic information about the country to be visited and compare and relate it to places and life styles that are familiar, but tries to evaluate all acquired information in isolation or in relation to regions and/or countries which have no relevance.
For those of you not offended and still reading on, here are some basic facts about Turkey to put your minds at ease, at least from some perspectives:
1. Turkey has been a modern nation since 1923 and an administratively democratic one since 1946.
2. Although most of Turkey lies in the Middle East, it has land in both Europe and Asia, is considered to be a European country politically and by all international organizationa.
3. A very large percentage of the population of Turkey is Islamic but there are also very large minority Islamic or semi-Islamic sects (as I would call the Mormons a semi-Christian sect) and smaller non-Moslem religious sects.
Modern Turkey was established as a secular state in 1923. Hence there is no mention of God or a religious book in the constitution
or any laws and regulation.
4. The Turks are ethnically very mixed up. The predominant strain is Mediterranean (a mixture of Greek, Roman, Celtic, Phrygian, Lydian, Karian, Bithynian, Phoenician,etc., followed by Central Asian. There are not many Semites (Arabs or Jews)
5. The culture is mainly a mixture of Tribal, Nomad, Feudal, Colonial, Empire,
6. Motto is "Live for today". That is why Christianity and Islam have never been followed absolutely.
7. Art and Literature have only a history of about two hundred years because they were mostly banned by the empire.
8. Foundations were established mainly to protect private wealth because private ownership was not allowed for Moslems until second half of 19th century. So all foundations were for the upkeep of mosques, which made it acceptable to the empire administartion.
9. There was no public education until the second half of the 19th century.Until then, it was all religious, and there was no training or education of instructors or teachers.
1n 1923, after the exchange of Christian population with Moslems between Greece and the Balkans and Turkey, but before the European Moslems arrived, only 7% new how to read and write, and that was the Arabic script.
The Latin script was accepted in 1928.
10. Turkey managed to stay neutral in the Second World War, was one of the first countries to enter NATO, was an active partner of United States during the Cold War, Is a member of the European Parliament, Is a signitury of most international agreements on human rights, environmental protection, etc. and is an associate member of EU.
11. Currently there are possibly 400 TV stations and possibly as many radio stations. Turks rank among the highest in Facebook, Instagram and Twitter usage in the world as well as latest generation mobile phones.
12. Western and Southwestern parts of the country are more affluent and more modern in outlook and life style.
13. The domestic political problems stem from utilization of secterian and racist attacks by various political parties based on neo-nationalistic and/or historic-religious ideas. The short-sightedness of these parties allow their leadersship cadres to make the most of old stories, tales, propaganda and lack of education as well as the now almost instinctive fear of a despotic government or a revolution confiscating everything, and fill their pockets and international bank accounts with a total lack of any thought of consequences or examples of similar leaders of the past.
14. These leaders may be stupid in terms of their future but are intelligent enough to realize that they can fill their coffers on if the country is economically prosperous. Therefore their economic administration is well trained, capable and able to handle significant sectors like exports, tourism, central bank, International economic relations, etc. reasonably well.
15. However, the leaders becoming complacent after a few years in power decide to set up the Ottoman Empire again and conduct regional relations and relations with neighbours and international partners on that basis. This leads to major issues, from indirect tampering of foreign powers in Turkish affairs to economic problems related to exports and imports.
As the reader can see, there is almost absolutely nothing in the above given information that should scare the potential traveler.
unless the traveler is considering becoming a Turkish national.
Yes, there are issues and problem for Turks who have to live, earn a living and educate their children in Turkey, but none of that applies to you.
Just do not draw the ire of the political factions or their minions by chanting in the streets, protesting, demonstrating or arguing with them. The rest is fun and games, interesting, history, architecture, nature, beaches, resorts, shopping and friendly people.
I have assumed that all the readers are up-to-date on the world political scene at least to a certain extent, have a basic knowledge of geography and maps and can at least refer to a map and locate areas of conflict, war and other types of problems.
Now, I realize that I was being presumptious. For many North American travelers, their visit to Turkey is is shouded in a mist of confusion, mystery, adventure, worry and false assumptions, frequently bolstered by well-wishing but totally ignorant advisers.
It is unfortunate that the travel planner does not google basic information about the country to be visited and compare and relate it to places and life styles that are familiar, but tries to evaluate all acquired information in isolation or in relation to regions and/or countries which have no relevance.
For those of you not offended and still reading on, here are some basic facts about Turkey to put your minds at ease, at least from some perspectives:
1. Turkey has been a modern nation since 1923 and an administratively democratic one since 1946.
2. Although most of Turkey lies in the Middle East, it has land in both Europe and Asia, is considered to be a European country politically and by all international organizationa.
3. A very large percentage of the population of Turkey is Islamic but there are also very large minority Islamic or semi-Islamic sects (as I would call the Mormons a semi-Christian sect) and smaller non-Moslem religious sects.
Modern Turkey was established as a secular state in 1923. Hence there is no mention of God or a religious book in the constitution
or any laws and regulation.
4. The Turks are ethnically very mixed up. The predominant strain is Mediterranean (a mixture of Greek, Roman, Celtic, Phrygian, Lydian, Karian, Bithynian, Phoenician,etc., followed by Central Asian. There are not many Semites (Arabs or Jews)
5. The culture is mainly a mixture of Tribal, Nomad, Feudal, Colonial, Empire,
6. Motto is "Live for today". That is why Christianity and Islam have never been followed absolutely.
7. Art and Literature have only a history of about two hundred years because they were mostly banned by the empire.
8. Foundations were established mainly to protect private wealth because private ownership was not allowed for Moslems until second half of 19th century. So all foundations were for the upkeep of mosques, which made it acceptable to the empire administartion.
9. There was no public education until the second half of the 19th century.Until then, it was all religious, and there was no training or education of instructors or teachers.
1n 1923, after the exchange of Christian population with Moslems between Greece and the Balkans and Turkey, but before the European Moslems arrived, only 7% new how to read and write, and that was the Arabic script.
The Latin script was accepted in 1928.
10. Turkey managed to stay neutral in the Second World War, was one of the first countries to enter NATO, was an active partner of United States during the Cold War, Is a member of the European Parliament, Is a signitury of most international agreements on human rights, environmental protection, etc. and is an associate member of EU.
11. Currently there are possibly 400 TV stations and possibly as many radio stations. Turks rank among the highest in Facebook, Instagram and Twitter usage in the world as well as latest generation mobile phones.
12. Western and Southwestern parts of the country are more affluent and more modern in outlook and life style.
13. The domestic political problems stem from utilization of secterian and racist attacks by various political parties based on neo-nationalistic and/or historic-religious ideas. The short-sightedness of these parties allow their leadersship cadres to make the most of old stories, tales, propaganda and lack of education as well as the now almost instinctive fear of a despotic government or a revolution confiscating everything, and fill their pockets and international bank accounts with a total lack of any thought of consequences or examples of similar leaders of the past.
14. These leaders may be stupid in terms of their future but are intelligent enough to realize that they can fill their coffers on if the country is economically prosperous. Therefore their economic administration is well trained, capable and able to handle significant sectors like exports, tourism, central bank, International economic relations, etc. reasonably well.
15. However, the leaders becoming complacent after a few years in power decide to set up the Ottoman Empire again and conduct regional relations and relations with neighbours and international partners on that basis. This leads to major issues, from indirect tampering of foreign powers in Turkish affairs to economic problems related to exports and imports.
As the reader can see, there is almost absolutely nothing in the above given information that should scare the potential traveler.
unless the traveler is considering becoming a Turkish national.
Yes, there are issues and problem for Turks who have to live, earn a living and educate their children in Turkey, but none of that applies to you.
Just do not draw the ire of the political factions or their minions by chanting in the streets, protesting, demonstrating or arguing with them. The rest is fun and games, interesting, history, architecture, nature, beaches, resorts, shopping and friendly people.
Oct 14th, 2015, 06:01 AM
#85
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 371
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
We returned a week ago from 2 glorious weeks in Turkey, and were so sad to hear the terrible news of the attacks. 2 weeks ago we spent several hours at the impressive Ataturk Mausoleum in Ankara, which I believe is near the site of the bombings. It was fascinating to learn of the impact of this great leader, how his vision changed the country and the culture. I had no idea, for instance, that Turkey was the second country in the world (after New Zealand) to give women the vote.
I appreciate the concise information given by OC above and his continuing first hand reports on the situation in the country. I hope that the recent events will not deter travelers from visiting Turkey, as it is a truly amazing country.
I appreciate the concise information given by OC above and his continuing first hand reports on the situation in the country. I hope that the recent events will not deter travelers from visiting Turkey, as it is a truly amazing country.
Oct 15th, 2015, 01:56 AM
#88
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 396
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"refer to a map" - I would say that a map is my #1 travel item.
I used to have a very good GeoCenter map but I left it in a rental car in Antalya. They appear to be almost impossible to get hold of now. I currently use the French IGN map of Turkey, which is pretty good, it has most of the sights of interest marked.
I used to have a very good GeoCenter map but I left it in a rental car in Antalya. They appear to be almost impossible to get hold of now. I currently use the French IGN map of Turkey, which is pretty good, it has most of the sights of interest marked.
Oct 15th, 2015, 03:15 AM
#89
Croesus, the GeoCenter map is worth its weight in gold nowadays.
Other maps are readily available and quite useful although sights of interest change as new sights are discovered by the map makers or the archeologists or nature lovers and as we grow older and our preferences change.
For me, good roadside restaurants are terribly important and I have never found a map which shows them. For my wife, all waterfalls are significant no matter how small they are and again maps never show them unless they are designated wonders.
When I was younger, I used to love climbing among rocks and brush to reach a little known ruin, today I much prefer a cleaned out level pathway with no rocks, thistle or poison ivy, even when my imagination tries to place the ruin in an old Spielberg movie.
Further news on Turkey :
weather getting cooler and possible showers around the country. Check the weather reports.
Turkish Lira has appreciated due to source unknown USD 9 Billion entering the country in recent months!!!!! despite the bombings, uncertainty of coming elections.
Ministry of Labour corrected an error in statistics and reduced unemployment figure by One point one Million!!! in preparation for the elections????
There is a clamp on all news regarding the recent bombing and arrest of media personalities by the courts.
Eser is forcing me to see "The Intern" tonight, hoping that I may be motivated to look for a job like Robert De Niro did in the movie.
Other maps are readily available and quite useful although sights of interest change as new sights are discovered by the map makers or the archeologists or nature lovers and as we grow older and our preferences change.
For me, good roadside restaurants are terribly important and I have never found a map which shows them. For my wife, all waterfalls are significant no matter how small they are and again maps never show them unless they are designated wonders.
When I was younger, I used to love climbing among rocks and brush to reach a little known ruin, today I much prefer a cleaned out level pathway with no rocks, thistle or poison ivy, even when my imagination tries to place the ruin in an old Spielberg movie.
Further news on Turkey :
weather getting cooler and possible showers around the country. Check the weather reports.
Turkish Lira has appreciated due to source unknown USD 9 Billion entering the country in recent months!!!!! despite the bombings, uncertainty of coming elections.
Ministry of Labour corrected an error in statistics and reduced unemployment figure by One point one Million!!! in preparation for the elections????
There is a clamp on all news regarding the recent bombing and arrest of media personalities by the courts.
Eser is forcing me to see "The Intern" tonight, hoping that I may be motivated to look for a job like Robert De Niro did in the movie.
Oct 15th, 2015, 05:57 AM
#92
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 6,476
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Bilbo
Sloppily. As you can imagine, there is a divergence of opinion. Please feel free to add your view. I am encouraging people not to sink to the level of Lounge. So far, it has been pretty civil and not civil as in civil war.
Sloppily. As you can imagine, there is a divergence of opinion. Please feel free to add your view. I am encouraging people not to sink to the level of Lounge. So far, it has been pretty civil and not civil as in civil war.
Oct 15th, 2015, 06:14 AM
#94
Oct 22nd, 2015, 12:35 AM
#95
Weather turning colder. Forecast says we shall have a cold and wet Winter in Turkey but nowhere as cold as expected for Northern United States and Canada. We still have not turned the central heating on at our building.
No safety issues or problems for travelers.
The only warning I have is against flying with Onur Air until further information. Apparently, there is a contested ownership issue, with the Iranian government claiming ownership due to expropriated shareholdings (held through a number of Turkish escrows) of arrested and possibly convicted Iranian businessman.
It is possible that the maintenance and operations of this airline may not be up to desired safety standards under these circumstances. (my personal view)
Latest opinion polls show that despite 65% of the population exhibiting fear of the President and again 65% admitting dislike of the PM, the incumbent AKP will get possibly 42-44% of the vote and an almost majority in the House, in the November 1 elections.
Shows rampant cognitive dissonance among the electorate as well as the politicians (except for CHP and HDP speakers) who can contradict themselves multiple times in one day or even in one speech or TV talk show.
Turkish Airlines direct flight fares to Istanbul from the United States for next Summer are still quite cheap, but will start going up as more seats are sold.
Remeber that mid-May to beginning June and mid August to beginnig September are expensive because some twenty thousand or more Turkish college students will be flying between Turkey and the United States at the end and beginning of the school year.
Economy seats for second half of June and second half of July between Istanbul and Chicago were about $430 fare and $380 taxes and $820 total for DW. But we have purchase ticket in two days and it is not a flexible ticket, subject to change and cancellation penalties. I will not admit that I may be on the same flight in business with my last FF miles, even under torture.
In any case, if you wish to arrange for a GTG in Chicago or somewhere within reasonable reach (but not Starved Rock, which was a disappointment) it will be pleasant to meet other Fodorites.
No safety issues or problems for travelers.
The only warning I have is against flying with Onur Air until further information. Apparently, there is a contested ownership issue, with the Iranian government claiming ownership due to expropriated shareholdings (held through a number of Turkish escrows) of arrested and possibly convicted Iranian businessman.
It is possible that the maintenance and operations of this airline may not be up to desired safety standards under these circumstances. (my personal view)
Latest opinion polls show that despite 65% of the population exhibiting fear of the President and again 65% admitting dislike of the PM, the incumbent AKP will get possibly 42-44% of the vote and an almost majority in the House, in the November 1 elections.
Shows rampant cognitive dissonance among the electorate as well as the politicians (except for CHP and HDP speakers) who can contradict themselves multiple times in one day or even in one speech or TV talk show.
Turkish Airlines direct flight fares to Istanbul from the United States for next Summer are still quite cheap, but will start going up as more seats are sold.
Remeber that mid-May to beginning June and mid August to beginnig September are expensive because some twenty thousand or more Turkish college students will be flying between Turkey and the United States at the end and beginning of the school year.
Economy seats for second half of June and second half of July between Istanbul and Chicago were about $430 fare and $380 taxes and $820 total for DW. But we have purchase ticket in two days and it is not a flexible ticket, subject to change and cancellation penalties. I will not admit that I may be on the same flight in business with my last FF miles, even under torture.
In any case, if you wish to arrange for a GTG in Chicago or somewhere within reasonable reach (but not Starved Rock, which was a disappointment) it will be pleasant to meet other Fodorites.
Oct 22nd, 2015, 05:19 AM
#96
OC -- would love to see you and Eser again. Do you know your dates in Chicago? We'll be travelling cross country from the east coast and perhaps our timing will be such that we're in Chicago area at the same time as you.
Oct 22nd, 2015, 06:47 AM
#97
Yestravel, we should be in Chicago June 25 till July 19, but we are also considering a 3-7 day trip somewhere during that period.
Hawai was first choice but the two long flights and the cost discouraged us. Puerto Rico seems to be the cheapest to reach, Cuba not so easy and possible from Mexico (that may change by next Summer). But the Caribbean may not be the best choice due to the Hurricane season.
Flight to Seattle and then the area with a drive to Vancouver is another option but Chicago-Seattle fares are also higher than Puerto Rico fares and I am not sure which would be more interesting since we have not been to either.
Will also allow (!) Eser to post about plans on her Facebook.
Hawai was first choice but the two long flights and the cost discouraged us. Puerto Rico seems to be the cheapest to reach, Cuba not so easy and possible from Mexico (that may change by next Summer). But the Caribbean may not be the best choice due to the Hurricane season.
Flight to Seattle and then the area with a drive to Vancouver is another option but Chicago-Seattle fares are also higher than Puerto Rico fares and I am not sure which would be more interesting since we have not been to either.
Will also allow (!) Eser to post about plans on her Facebook.
Oct 22nd, 2015, 02:37 PM
#99
Too bad. Doubt we'll be in Chicago area that early in July. But we are also going to Pacific Northwest (PNW) so maybe if you decide on Vancouver area our paths might cross there. I will watch FB for Eser's comments. (And appreicate you "allowing" her to post. 
)
The Caribbean in the summer could be very hot. While Hurricane season starts officially in June, they are not real common that early in the season, not impossible but unusual. I haven't been to Puerto Rico in many years, but I'd go for the PNW in a heartbeat given the choice between the 2. It's beautiful. Vancouver is a wonderful city.
)The Caribbean in the summer could be very hot. While Hurricane season starts officially in June, they are not real common that early in the season, not impossible but unusual. I haven't been to Puerto Rico in many years, but I'd go for the PNW in a heartbeat given the choice between the 2. It's beautiful. Vancouver is a wonderful city.
Oct 22nd, 2015, 02:50 PM
#100
July is beautiful in the Pacific Northwest and Vancouver is one of my favorite cities. It has a waterfeont setting with a variety of interesring neighborhoods.
Puerto Rico sounds interesring too but the heat would be a problem for me.
Puerto Rico sounds interesring too but the heat would be a problem for me.
