brookums71

I know this is a thread on safety but I am including my Trip report on here as it has much to do with recent events...


http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...march-2016.cfm

Croesus

If Jean-Claude Juncker needs a word of Turkish, it should be this:

Avrupalılaştırılamıyanlardanmısınız?

Which I found in my 1988 Berlitz phrase book years ago and have almost succeeded in learning how to say.

otherchelebi

Thanks all,

the state dept warning is not much different than mine.

the threat seems to be escalating in view of number of stopped and unstopped terrorists in Europe in general.

I still see no direct threat to local and/or foreign civilians from any Kurdish group, but the indirect risk is high in areas of violent activity by the security forces.

Isis seems to have established a sizable base in Turkey. The Turkish government Directorate of Religious Affairs and the Ministry of Education are rather dumbly or worse still, intentionally making sure that the Turkish children are brought up and educated in Jihadism and the Paradise as the only worthwile vision any Moslem can have. They either do not realize that this is what Isis has been preaching or believe that their next step in education will be to show that "love of Erdogan" will be another sure way to Paradise.

sandralist

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

sandralist

You might find this interesting:

http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-d...ship-in-turkey

otherchelebi

Thanks sandralist. An article with some errors but simple and valid in outlook.

BTW, I just changed my profile picture to Grandson at age 11 months and 1 week. (Today)

otherchelebi

Erdogan speaking at Brookings Institute live on CNNTurkey, just now.

In Turkish, naturally, since he knows no other languages except a smattering of Arabic.

I am really glad grandson was born in US.

flpab

I just saw the video from the base in Ramstein, Germany where all the American soldiers families were evacuated from Turkey today. They left with just their suitcases so the USO, Red Cross and the base are helping them get settled in. Many will stay in Germany and finish out the school year, others will be coming back to the states. They brought their pets, kids and some clothing.

annhig

flpab - at whose instigation was the exit of the american families from Turkey? it sound like a worrying development.

Far even more concerning though is the news reported on the BBC radio news this morning that some Syrian refugees are being sent back into Syria by the Turkish authorities; if the reports are true [and they are part of a report by Amnesty] it seems that this has been happening regularly since January and of course cuts a swath through the plan to send refugees back from Greece to Turkey:

<<New research carried out by the organization in Turkey’s southern border provinces suggests that Turkish authorities have been rounding up and expelling groups of around 100 Syrian men, women and children to Syria on a near-daily basis since mid-January. Over three days last week, Amnesty International researchers gathered multiple testimonies of large-scale returns from Hatay province, confirming a practice that is an open secret in the region.

All forced returns to Syria are illegal under Turkish, EU and international law.>>

Here's the full report:

https://www.amnesty.org/en/press-rel...u-turkey-deal/

it makes chilling reading.

yestravel

<b>"at whose instigation was the exit of the american families from Turkey?"</b>
I heard on the news several days ago that it was the Pentagon ordering military families to evacuate southern Turkey, primarily from Incirlik Air Base. Also evacuations from facilities in Izmir and Mugla were ordered.

otherchelebi

The recall of American military and other government personnel families was made last week by the Pentagon and the State Department because of intelligence received increasing the terrorist threat by a number of Isis groups having crossed the border into Turkey from Syria.

The forced returns of Syrian groups from Turkey are also partially due to this type of information. It is an over 500 mile border some of which have ISIS control in Syria and they continuously try to infiltrate under different guises.

Also, do not forget that Turkey has approximately three million Syrian refugees already. Some Southeastern cities have mor Syrians than Turks.

When you copy, " All forced returns to Syria are illegal under Turkish, EU and international law.>> you should consider those who cross as "illegal aliens" rather than "asylum seekers" because those who ran from Isis already came through. The likelihood that the new groups coming over are those running over from the forces liberating the Islamic State lands is much bigger. In fact, the major request of United States and EU from Turkey has been to stop these illegal crossings.

Hence, it is difficult to understand most of what goes on in that horribly destitute part of the Middle Eastern region where nothing and no one seem to be what and who they are.

The original cause of the huge migration was due to Turkey and the United States indiscriminately supplying arms to all groups fighting against the lawful but authorian government of Syria, allowing the formation of the Islamic State from the association of fundamentalist groups including Al-Qaeda offshoots.

The first million or so refugees were those running away from the fighting against Assad while the fundamentalist forces tried to take over and establish their enclaves. Unfortunately, United States and Turkey were joined by Qatar and Saudi Arabia in supplying the fundamentalists, bunching them together under the name of "rebels"

Turkish aim was to get rid of Assad quickly and set up a protected area in Northern Syria, allowing the fomation of a new fundamentalist territory governed by the Sunnites of the Islamic Brotherhood. Hence, all these groups of mostly Sunnite refugees were welcomed in Turkey. The belief was that they would soon be sent back to replace the Assad supporting Alewite/Shiite and the Kurdish populations on the border areas.

This did not materialize because Isis was established and grew fast, the Kurds proved strong enough to protect themselves from all fundamentalist groups and Assad refused to disappear from the scene supported by Russia and Iran.

Turkey is still trying to dislodge the Kurds from the border but with no success because the United States sees the Kurds as an ally against the Islamic State which has now become the biggest enemy. This is the big current issue and stands against Erdogan's visions of a Turkish Empire with himself as the Sultan.

Unfortunately, Erdogan's recent visit to the United States, starting on a sour note developed into increased support from the Obama administration, the Brookings Institute and CNN.

Here's my recent frantic tweeter activity while checking news from Washington D.C. :

11 hours ago
With the relations between Turkey and US on the mend, will Obama change his decision not to attend opening ceremony of new mosque in MD?

celebiler 13h13 hours ago
Turkish media, including CNNTurk reported that Obama bowed down to Erdogan and they had a 50 minute meeting. Later PR was by Amanpour.

celebiler 13h13 hours ago
Global increase in number of fools is probably not significant, but more apparent due to social media & self advertising as such..

celebiler Mar 31
TurkishPres says he welcomes criticism as long as it isn't insulting. If he considers it insulting,he will sue. Critics need approved list.

celebiler Mar 31
TurkishPresident uses the royal "We" in answering questions. Also says "My Intelligence Director" when mentioning the Agency. BrookingsFP

celebiler Mar 31
Rationality, expertise in speaking to intellectual groups shouldn't be expected from a ME pol leader used to diff. audience. BrookingsFP

tcelebiler Mar 31
Erdogan made the qualified statement, "Turkey is the most advanced country in terms of fighting against terrorism." BrookingsFP Meaning?

Ahmet C. Celebiler ‏@ahmetcelebiler Mar 31
Erdogan blames Assad for creating & feeding #Isis', sneers at risk of vacuum in Syria after Assad but offers no alternative. BrookingsFP




celebiler 10h10 hours ago
TurkishPresident put fear of God into US Administration, police, media and spectators at WashingtonDC, Thanks Brookings for the chance.

Celebiler Retweeted Yochi Dreazen
Turkish Security effective against protesters and journalists in WashingtonDC. Lesson for Americanbodyguards!

annhig

When you copy, " All forced returns to Syria are illegal under Turkish, EU and international law.>> you should consider those who cross as "illegal aliens" rather than "asylum seekers" because those who ran from Isis already came through. The likelihood that the new groups coming over are those running over from the forces liberating the Islamic State lands is much bigger. In fact, the major request of United States and EU from Turkey has been to stop these illegal crossings.>>

OC - I agree that some may not what they seem, but the Amnesty report focussed on the scandal of children being separated from their mothers, pregnant women being sent back to desolate camps, and other inhumanities, apparently because they lacked the right papers that other agencies had refused to give them.

Of course the EU wants to stop more people leaving Syria but calling them illegal is not going to work; they are simply the ones who left it too long to leave.

And where have the people of Palmyra gone? it was deserted when the Syrian Army got there. did they leave voluntarily, frighted of their "liberators" or have they been kidnapped? there are news reports to massacre sites being found; undoubtedly there are going to be more refugees trying to escape ISIS wherever they try to take control.

thursdaysd

Interesting view of the effect of Merkel's ill-considered policy from Germany:

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/02/op...-goodness.html

Fra_Diavolo

After scouring news sources for anything approximating the dire news above, I am forced to conclude the the Turkish media is as delusional as President Erdogan.

Still wish Obama had snubbed the little dictator.

yestravel

Is this for real
"celebiler 10h10 hours ago
TurkishPresident put fear of God into US Administration, police, media and spectators at WashingtonDC, Thanks Brookings for the chance.

Celebiler Retweeted Yochi Dreazen
Turkish Security effective against protesters and journalists in WashingtonDC. Lesson for Americanbodyguards!"

Where is this news coming from re Erdogan's time in DC?

flpab

Yes, Pentagon order it.

otherchelebi

Fra Diavola & Yestravel,

The Turkish pro-Erdogan or threatened media is not delusional.

this is the only way they can survive.

It is difficult for you to discern the powers of the supposedly figurehead president. he controls the police, the army and the justice system as well as education, interior affairs, economy, etc.

I tweeted above as "Irony"

because, I do not believe the United States government understands Erdogan's powers and vision for a Khalifate, and they goad him on as long as they mistakenly believe he works to extend United States interests.

The main thrust of Obama's meeting with Erdogan was his trust and partnership against terrorism. But according to Erdogan most Western media, many Turkish academicians and repporters are terrorists. So he thinks Obama feels the same way.

Fra_Diavolo

"I tweeted above as "Irony""

I understood that it was not your position. I was surprised that the Turkish media would print such rubbish, forgetting how Erdogan has muzzled them.

Sorry you have to live through these dark days.

annhig

It is difficult for you to discern the powers of the supposedly figurehead president. he controls the police, the army and the justice system as well as education, interior affairs, economy, etc.>>

and recently had beaten up some lawyers whose only offence was to defend some other lawyers who had been charged with the heinous crime of doing their jobs [ie defending people charged with crimes]:

http://www.barcouncil.org.uk/media-c...yers-arrested/

humour of course is something that dictators dislike above everything because it punctures their inflated impressions of themselves.

yestravel

Here's the report on Erdogan's visit to the new mosque. Reported in the local section of the Washington Post.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/local...mepage%2Fstory