Maureen, maybe I wasn't clear. As I said I switched my ATM only card to an ATM debit card because it works better in Europe. But I was commenting on NEVER using a card as a debit card, which I never have. The fact that an ATM card may need to have a debit function attached to it to now work properly in Europe has nothing to do with what I was asking -- the advantage of using a debit card over a credit card!

I don't think I really contradicted myself at all. I still have never used a DEBIT card as a debit card, and still don't see the advantage for me. Sorry, but I WILL admit to not making myself clear, I guess.

No, they can't "empty your checking account" - that's what daily limits and velocity checks are for.

Any merchant who will accept a credit card transaction based on simply a number is a fool. So whoever steals your credit card number hasn't stolen anything that can hurt you.

I think the main problem is that most people don't understand how credit card scams work.

You are protected in every case by your Cardholder Agreement.

I think it's semantics. An ATM/debit card does withdraw from your checking account, doesn't it? It is then serving a debit card function.

At my credit union, an ATM card IS a debit card, but a debit card is not necessarily an ATM card. Both types of cards are offered free of charge with all my accounts there.

My credit card number was once lifted while I was making a purchase at a mall store. Within a couple of hours, I had my card in hand and tried to use it at another store, but it was denied. I called the credit card company and they had noticed unusual activity on my card and had immediately put a temporary hold on it. They read the recent purchases to me over the phone: two cell phones and other electronic gadgets purchased at the mall for about $1200, plus a purchase of four new tires!

So, using just my number without my card, someone was able to get away with buying those things. I was not responsible for them, but the company insisted on closing the account and sending me a new card and number.

Fair enough that a debit card being used in an ATM is sort of a debit transaction, but again I was trying to ask only about PURCHASES or CHARGES with a debit card as opposed to a credit card. My question still stands, but has pretty much been answered: "what advantage is there to making a purchase with a debit card over making it with a credit card?" And the answer FOR ME is clearly "NONE!"

Regarding the cardholder agreement, my original question about "protection" wasn't meant in regards to cleaning out an account. I was referring to a charge on my credit card that I disagree with -- a wrong amount at a restaurant, a charge at a hotel that was clearly cancelled before going, a purchased item being shipped that never came, an item being charged to my account twice -- that sort of thing. Those kinds of problems are easily addressed (before you pay your statement) by the credit card company and they will often do the "leg work" in your not having to pay for such charges -- I've been that route numerous times. I was asking how that works if you have purchased an item with a debit card, which is automatically and instantly paid out of your bank account. If there is a problem with it, how do you reclaim those funds, or can you? I think the "buyer" protection of a credit card is a very good thing.

".."what advantage is there to making a purchase with a debit card over making it with a credit card?"

According to the recent fee notices, my debit card will not incur additional 'conversion' fees, whereas my credit cards will. That is an advantage. (and paying as I go in 'cash' not credit is one for me).

Ah, thanks Travelnut for the first good reason I've heard. That is a surprise to me, since usually the debit function is via a VISA connection, so I just assumed purchases would be subject to the same conversion fees as if with a credit card. Maybe not, huh?

Sorry, to clarify, the 1% VISA fee is -always- passed on... but the additional 2-3% that most all the banks have decided to hit us with don't apply to debit cards (according to the notices - I'll find out for sure in Sept!).
p.s. one of my banks sent me a credit card -and- a debit card notice, only the credit card will be assessed those extra %.

Thanks, Travelnut, that has come as very surprising but welcomed news.

"No, they can't "empty your checking account" - that's what daily limits and velocity checks are for."

Not knowing where you bank, RP, I can't speak about your situation. My daily debit limit is $3500, which could empty my travel checking in one or two days, depending upon the length of our trip. Yes, you are protected from fraud, but in the case of debit theft, the money has already been taken from your checking account. As I said previously, it is possible to get it back, but it is not easy, and in the meantime it is GONE. Obviously, you have never been the victim of this type of scam. I have, and I'm afraid that the validity of my knowledge is from experience. You do not know everything about everyone and every bank.

And, by the way: "Any merchant who will accept a credit card transaction based on simply a number is a fool. So whoever steals your credit card number hasn't stolen anything that can hurt you." I have bought furniture by phone and had it shipped to another home we own that was not the billing address of the card I used for the purchase. They weren't fools and many people purchase items this way.

When a fraudulent transaction appears on a statement, the cardholder will dispute the charge, and the card issuer will request that the merchant produce either a signature or CVV. If neither is forthcoming, the amount in dispute will be debited to the merchant and credited to the cardholder. Period.

If a merchant doesn't have proof that a card is being used by its owner, he is delivering goods that he has no guarantee of getting paid for. That's my definition of a fool.

And sending merchandise to an address that won't pass an address check when he gets an authorization code is just plain stupid.

There are several threads addressing the Visa add-on percentage when using credit cards. It's worth it to shop around. I know my credit union, BellCo, still doesn't add anything on top of Visa's 1 percent, to either credit or debit purchases.

How many times do I have to say this?

<b>The one percent VisaNet International Service Assessment is charged to the BANK. It is passed through to the consumer at the BANK'S discretion. Neither of mine BANKS do. <i>I get all my foreign transactions at par.</i></b>

Shop around.

&quot;How many times do I have to say this?&quot;

I don't know. Why? Is anyone arguing that point?


Why aren't I shopping around? Maybe because this week I booked a free flight for next summer -- worth over $6800 using miles I mainly got through the use of my Citibank Card. The 3% I may or may not have been charged on a handful of European purchases is peanuts compared to the amount of money that ticket is worth. I'm not really complaining about those charges.

&quot;the amount in dispute will be debited to the merchant and credited to the cardholder. Period.&quot;

Perhaps it will be credited in 3 or 4 weeks---well <b>after</b> the average vacation is finished.

&quot;And sending merchandise to an address that won't pass an address check when he gets an authorization code is just plain stupid.&quot;

Some people own more than one home. gt;

I own more than one home. What's the relevance of your comment?

If you were a merchant, and you sent goods to an address other than that on the cardholder's account, you would be stupid.

I guess everyone is stupid but you.

I don't understand. I have often ordered merchandise, used my credit card, and have had the merchandise sent to a different address than mine.

By the way, Patrick, I get mileage on my Smith Barney card, too. A lot of mileage.

And I also don't pay anything on foreign transactions. Okay, two or three percent isn't much, but when I take the family to Europe for a few weeks, it adds up to several hundred dollars. You are, in effect, flushing it.

Lots of people do, LoveItaly, I don't think you and I are the only ones. But the fact that I have never had a problem purchasing things that way on the phone also meand that anyone who steals my debit card number could also make purchases on the phone that aren't sent to my (cardholder's) address.