Venice, Verona, Dolomites/Lake Garda, Rome
Jan 12th, 2019, 02:37 PM
#61
<<Does anyone have any hotel recommendations or areas to stay in Venice? We are arriving by plane and leaving by train. We are there for three nights. We want to see all the San Marco sights, but are not at all averse to staying in one of the other areas provides easy access to them considering our limited time. Other possibilities of things we would add if time allowed would be to go to Marino and/or Lido. (I realize they are in opposite directions). I would love the hotel/b&b to have easy canal access for arrival from airport and be under $250 per night if possible. This will be our first part of our Italy trip, so it would probably be useful to have hotel staff or a host that speaks some English. We will try to learn as much Italian as we can beforehand. Can you get to the train station via water taxi? We will have luggage so that is a factor for us.>>
I don't think that anyone else has addressed this question so as it is somewhat of being my specialist subject, I'll offer my advice, for what it's worth.
You are going to do exactly what I have done several times and will do again at the end of January. My recommendation would be the Hotel Arcadia, which is along the main drag about a 10 minute walk from the station, but faces away from the street so the rooms are quiet. I've stayed there twice and will be staying there again next time. It is very comfortable, has lovely helpful english speaking staff and does a great breakfast in a very impressive palatial room on the second floor. It has the huge advantage of being accessible on the Alilaguna [water boat] from the airport, and the stop [Guglio] is just round the corner so you don't need to cross any bridges with your luggage. From the same stop you can easily get a vaporetto [water bus] to the station at the end of your trip if you don't want to walk to the station. Walk 5 minutes in the opposite direction and you can pick up a vaporetto going down the Grand canal towards San Marco. They are used to dealing with luggage and you will not need a water taxi which are prohibitively expensive. There are nice restaurants in the area and just behind the hotel is the Ghetto which I have found very interesting, and might, dare I say, be educational for your daughter.
https://www.hotelarcadia.net
Also from the same vaporetto stop round the corner you can get a boat to the "Fondamente Nova" where you can change onto a boat going to Murano. Personally I would rather go to Burano and Torcello, but they are rather further away and would talk at least ¾ of a day to see them both, whereas Murano can be seen in half a day. Definitely get a vaporetto pass for all 3 days you will be there - you can see more if you know that when you are tired, you can just get onto a boat that will take you home. You can also use it for island hopping which would be exorbitant if you had to pay for every trip separately - they are about €8 a trip now. And I would not bother with the Lido - it takes a long time to get there and back on the vaporetto and it would take a relatively long time out of your quite short visit. Depending how interested you are in art, as well as the Basilica and the Doge's Palace [the main sights in San Marco] you might be interested in seeing the Rialto Markets, the Frari church and Scuola grande di San Rocco in San Polo, the Zattere which is a lovely long pavement next to a canal with cafes, restaurants etc., but one of the greatest ways of seeing the city is just setting off in a direction and seeing what you can find. With a modern Smart phone and GPS it's very hard to get lost.
hope that helps!
I don't think that anyone else has addressed this question so as it is somewhat of being my specialist subject, I'll offer my advice, for what it's worth.
You are going to do exactly what I have done several times and will do again at the end of January. My recommendation would be the Hotel Arcadia, which is along the main drag about a 10 minute walk from the station, but faces away from the street so the rooms are quiet. I've stayed there twice and will be staying there again next time. It is very comfortable, has lovely helpful english speaking staff and does a great breakfast in a very impressive palatial room on the second floor. It has the huge advantage of being accessible on the Alilaguna [water boat] from the airport, and the stop [Guglio] is just round the corner so you don't need to cross any bridges with your luggage. From the same stop you can easily get a vaporetto [water bus] to the station at the end of your trip if you don't want to walk to the station. Walk 5 minutes in the opposite direction and you can pick up a vaporetto going down the Grand canal towards San Marco. They are used to dealing with luggage and you will not need a water taxi which are prohibitively expensive. There are nice restaurants in the area and just behind the hotel is the Ghetto which I have found very interesting, and might, dare I say, be educational for your daughter.
https://www.hotelarcadia.net
Also from the same vaporetto stop round the corner you can get a boat to the "Fondamente Nova" where you can change onto a boat going to Murano. Personally I would rather go to Burano and Torcello, but they are rather further away and would talk at least ¾ of a day to see them both, whereas Murano can be seen in half a day. Definitely get a vaporetto pass for all 3 days you will be there - you can see more if you know that when you are tired, you can just get onto a boat that will take you home. You can also use it for island hopping which would be exorbitant if you had to pay for every trip separately - they are about €8 a trip now. And I would not bother with the Lido - it takes a long time to get there and back on the vaporetto and it would take a relatively long time out of your quite short visit. Depending how interested you are in art, as well as the Basilica and the Doge's Palace [the main sights in San Marco] you might be interested in seeing the Rialto Markets, the Frari church and Scuola grande di San Rocco in San Polo, the Zattere which is a lovely long pavement next to a canal with cafes, restaurants etc., but one of the greatest ways of seeing the city is just setting off in a direction and seeing what you can find. With a modern Smart phone and GPS it's very hard to get lost.
hope that helps!
Jan 12th, 2019, 04:40 PM
#62
I like neckervd's suggestion of the round-trip car rental at Mestre, but that does mean you'd be paying for at least one additional rental day plus parking in Verona. Personally, I think the last day's drive would make it worth a little additional cost, but it's your call.
I myself wouldn't worry about arriving in Rome after dark, and I'd just catch a taxi right outside the train station. I wouldn't stay at a hotel close to the train station, but that's only because I prefer other areas with a little more charm. There would only be an issue with a late arrival if the hotel doesn't have reception staff at that hour, but you can usually find that info on the hotel's website.
I myself wouldn't worry about arriving in Rome after dark, and I'd just catch a taxi right outside the train station. I wouldn't stay at a hotel close to the train station, but that's only because I prefer other areas with a little more charm. There would only be an issue with a late arrival if the hotel doesn't have reception staff at that hour, but you can usually find that info on the hotel's website.
Jan 12th, 2019, 04:41 PM
#63
Forgot to add.... One thing about already having the car when you're ready to leave Verona is that you'll get to your Lake Garda destination earlier and/or have a little more time to explore along the way.
Jan 13th, 2019, 05:49 AM
#64
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but you do not need a car for Lake Garda- we took train to Descenzo (sp?) one of two rail stations on lake and a pleasant lakeside town and then took boats all around the lake. Driving in high season could be hectic with lots of traffic and problems finding parking in towns, etc and you get a better view of both sides of the lake from a boat.
Jan 13th, 2019, 08:01 AM
#65
PalenQ, please read the entire thread. The OP doesn't have a lot of time to get to their lake destination by boat, and they need a car to get to their Dolomites destination (where they also don't have a lot of time). If they didn't already have a car when they're at the lake, they'd have to travel to a town with rental offices before they could head to the mountains, which would take time they don't have a lot of. Much of this trip could be done differently if they had more time, but it is what it is.
Jan 13th, 2019, 09:13 AM
#66
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Sounds like a great trip and great suggestions. My only suggestions in Rome would be to secure a private guide for the Coliseum if you plan to visit. It's already amazing but becomes mind-blowing when you have more information about its past and the society as a whole. We stayed at Hotel d'ruses in Rome and loved it. Just up from the Spanish Steps and in the middle of great dining and shopping. Finally, you may consider Alitalia Airlines when flying out of Rome. Great plane and staff. Outstanding lay-flat business class if upgrading with air miles and non-stop to the West Coast. Enjoy!!
Jan 18th, 2019, 04:01 PM
#67
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Re: Lake Garda.
I have been spending the last week pouring over various booking sites, internet sites and guidebooks trying to come a decision about where to stay on Lake Garda. Obviously staying in one of the Northern towns would provide spectacular scenery and shorter access to the Dolomites.
However, reading and rereading through all the advice and research, I am wondering if we are better off staying further south. My reasoning: since we are now staying in the Dolomites, maybe we want to experience a lake town with more of an "Italian" feel. We would also get there (wherever "there" is) earlier on that day. We could then spend part of the first day and all of the second touring the southern part of the lake. If we did this, we would leave as early as we can on the next day and we would head to the Dolomites. But I would want that last day drive to be in such a way that we could have a view or maybe have a late breakfast/early lunch- somewhere on the Northern part of the lake.
Regardless, I am stuck as to which town to stay in. We originally planned on Malcesine, in part because of the lift to Monte Baldo and the ferry access. But now we will be spending two night in Ortisie. So that may not be as necessary, Limone looks nice, but I am not sure if it makes sense for use to stay on the Western side of the lake. Riva provides nice access to the Dolomite portion and looks beautiful. And then there are all the rest of the towns around the lake! Sirmione looks beautiful (but crowded?).
If anyone has any suggestions/ reasons to stay in one spot over another for the two nights (knowing that we are starting the first day in Verona, spending two nights on the lake, and then driving to the Dolomites), I would appreciate the input.
I have been spending the last week pouring over various booking sites, internet sites and guidebooks trying to come a decision about where to stay on Lake Garda. Obviously staying in one of the Northern towns would provide spectacular scenery and shorter access to the Dolomites.
However, reading and rereading through all the advice and research, I am wondering if we are better off staying further south. My reasoning: since we are now staying in the Dolomites, maybe we want to experience a lake town with more of an "Italian" feel. We would also get there (wherever "there" is) earlier on that day. We could then spend part of the first day and all of the second touring the southern part of the lake. If we did this, we would leave as early as we can on the next day and we would head to the Dolomites. But I would want that last day drive to be in such a way that we could have a view or maybe have a late breakfast/early lunch- somewhere on the Northern part of the lake.
Regardless, I am stuck as to which town to stay in. We originally planned on Malcesine, in part because of the lift to Monte Baldo and the ferry access. But now we will be spending two night in Ortisie. So that may not be as necessary, Limone looks nice, but I am not sure if it makes sense for use to stay on the Western side of the lake. Riva provides nice access to the Dolomite portion and looks beautiful. And then there are all the rest of the towns around the lake! Sirmione looks beautiful (but crowded?).
If anyone has any suggestions/ reasons to stay in one spot over another for the two nights (knowing that we are starting the first day in Verona, spending two nights on the lake, and then driving to the Dolomites), I would appreciate the input.
Jan 19th, 2019, 05:31 AM
#68
here4now - I will put in a vote for Garda, though in the interests of full disclosure I have to tell you it's the only place on the lake where we have stayed.
Apart from being a nice town, the main advantage is that you can easily get to other parts of the lake, whether the western side, the south, or the north, and the fast boats call there as well, making travelling around even easier. Which if are are staying just two nights may be important.
But if you imagine that you will just be spending time in the place where you are staying, I might still go for Malcesine which has plenty to occupy you for a day and is beautiful.
Apart from being a nice town, the main advantage is that you can easily get to other parts of the lake, whether the western side, the south, or the north, and the fast boats call there as well, making travelling around even easier. Which if are are staying just two nights may be important.
But if you imagine that you will just be spending time in the place where you are staying, I might still go for Malcesine which has plenty to occupy you for a day and is beautiful.
Jan 19th, 2019, 09:58 AM
#69
If it was my trip, I'd stay at the northern end of Lake Garda to maximize the driving day into the Dolomites. (I can't remember, were you thinking of seeing the Iceman Museum in Bolzano?) Coming from Verona, the drive along the eastern shore of the lake to Malcesine would take about 2 hours. But you could spend the day getting there, stopping for lunch along the way, wandering in a couple of towns, walking along the shore. Finding parking could take some time (esp. on a weekend), and you'll have to be on the alert for ZTLs in slightly larger towns like Garda where the center is off the main road.
If you were thinking of seeing the castle in Malcesine and taking the cable car to Monte Baldo (which I highly recommend if only for the views of the lake), then I don't think you'll have time for much sightseeing by ferry. But you can check the ferry timetable. The winter schedule is currently available, so you'll have to check back for summer, but you can get a sense of travel times by ferry.
Navigazione Laghi | Lago Maggiore | Lago di Garda | Lago di Como
http://www.navigazionelaghi.it/doc/p...02018-2019.pdf
If you were thinking of seeing the castle in Malcesine and taking the cable car to Monte Baldo (which I highly recommend if only for the views of the lake), then I don't think you'll have time for much sightseeing by ferry. But you can check the ferry timetable. The winter schedule is currently available, so you'll have to check back for summer, but you can get a sense of travel times by ferry.
Navigazione Laghi | Lago Maggiore | Lago di Garda | Lago di Como
http://www.navigazionelaghi.it/doc/p...02018-2019.pdf
Jan 20th, 2019, 01:44 AM
#70
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" we want to experience a lake town with more of an "Italian" feel"
The places in all 3 provinces (Verona, Brescia and Trento) are Italian (architecture, language, food).
I would stay at Riva, Malcesine, Torbole or Limone (but not along the noisy main road!)
The places in all 3 provinces (Verona, Brescia and Trento) are Italian (architecture, language, food).
I would stay at Riva, Malcesine, Torbole or Limone (but not along the noisy main road!)
Jan 20th, 2019, 05:27 AM
#72
damn, annhig, I don't think I've ever read such a rich and evocative and overpowering description of breakfast as that on the Hotel Arcadia site! It's like Proust on eggs.>>
lol! it is rather over the top, but the breakfast is pretty good, and the room in which it is served is rather splendiferous. It hasn't disappointed me so far; I will report back next week!
lol! it is rather over the top, but the breakfast is pretty good, and the room in which it is served is rather splendiferous. It hasn't disappointed me so far; I will report back next week!
Jan 21st, 2019, 04:55 AM
#73
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So much valuable information! Thank you all. After all your advice, Annhig, we have booked the hotel Arcadia in Venice, but are also considering a different one also. All the choices are overwhelming so I appreciate you giving me the benefit of your experience and why it is a great choice.
Jean and Neckervd, I also looked into the rental fee for the car. The pick up in Vernona/drop off in Venice involves only a nominal fee. Combined with the one day less and no parking fee, it is a bit cheaper. So I think that is what we do. To be clear, Mestre is the train station in Venice, right?
Right now, I have a hotel booked in Malcesine-- with the plan being a slowish drive up the shore, perhaps stopping in Simione or one of the other towns. A lot will depend on how early we can rouse ourselves after the late night at the Opera.
So, after all your advice, our Lake Garda/ Dolomites 4 night portion:
Spend day driving from Verona to Malcesine, (take about 5 hours, stopping along the way in a town or two) spend two nights.
Spend next day exploring the northern lake towns via ferry and/or lift to Mont Baldo.
On next day, leave and take long drive to Ortisie, stopping along the way. (Right now, no plan to stop and see the Ice Man but maybe will add). Spend two nights in Ortisie.
On 2nd day in Ortisie, spend day on lifts/hiking etc nearby.
On last day, leave Ortisie and drive out over the passes, stopping a long the way and ending at Venice. Should I estimate about 4-6 hours for this? Turn in car and head to Rome via fast train.
Sound good given our time issues?
All of your advice has been invaluable. So thank you!
Jean and Neckervd, I also looked into the rental fee for the car. The pick up in Vernona/drop off in Venice involves only a nominal fee. Combined with the one day less and no parking fee, it is a bit cheaper. So I think that is what we do. To be clear, Mestre is the train station in Venice, right?
Right now, I have a hotel booked in Malcesine-- with the plan being a slowish drive up the shore, perhaps stopping in Simione or one of the other towns. A lot will depend on how early we can rouse ourselves after the late night at the Opera.
So, after all your advice, our Lake Garda/ Dolomites 4 night portion:
Spend day driving from Verona to Malcesine, (take about 5 hours, stopping along the way in a town or two) spend two nights.
Spend next day exploring the northern lake towns via ferry and/or lift to Mont Baldo.
On next day, leave and take long drive to Ortisie, stopping along the way. (Right now, no plan to stop and see the Ice Man but maybe will add). Spend two nights in Ortisie.
On 2nd day in Ortisie, spend day on lifts/hiking etc nearby.
On last day, leave Ortisie and drive out over the passes, stopping a long the way and ending at Venice. Should I estimate about 4-6 hours for this? Turn in car and head to Rome via fast train.
Sound good given our time issues?
All of your advice has been invaluable. So thank you!
Jan 21st, 2019, 06:23 AM
#74
So much valuable information! Thank you all. After all your advice, Annhig, we have booked the hotel Arcadia in Venice, but are also considering a different one also.>>
oh dear, the responsibility. Do you mind me asking which the other one is? One of my reasons for liking the Arcadia so much is that it is so easy to get to so that would be an important consideration for me, particularly when you are only staying 3 nights.
oh dear, the responsibility. Do you mind me asking which the other one is? One of my reasons for liking the Arcadia so much is that it is so easy to get to so that would be an important consideration for me, particularly when you are only staying 3 nights.
Jan 21st, 2019, 08:50 AM
#75
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It should be possible to drive from Ortisei via Cortina to Venezia Mestre in about 5 hrs, BUT WITHOUT ANY INTERMEDIATE STOP.
I would never do that. If you really want to enjoy your trip, you should count at least a full day.
The last Rome bound train leaves Mestre at 19.37 and arrives at Rome shortly aftr 11pm
I would never do that. If you really want to enjoy your trip, you should count at least a full day.
The last Rome bound train leaves Mestre at 19.37 and arrives at Rome shortly aftr 11pm
Jan 21st, 2019, 09:48 AM
#76
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Neckervd and Jean: Hmmm. So is there a way to still drive some of the passes, perhaps not go all the way to Cortina, but still end in Venice? Or is that the only route if we we end in that direction? We would plan on stopping. But you are right, 5 hours, plus stops and then a 4 hour train ride for late night arrival in a strange city is not ideal.
You had mentioned driving passes and then returning car to Bolzano. I can still do that. It seems when I added a day to the trip (which I did by dropping it off a few hours later), my rate changed to weekly (cheaper) and the drop off fee dropped dramatically. So it is about the same price whether I drop off in Venice or Bolzano. But wouldn't that also be about the same amount of time driving?
I just don't want to get all the way across the world to the Dolomites and miss out on the beautiful scenery or experiences. But I know our time is limited. Normally, would I drive 5 hours just to see the scenery? No way. But this is an opportunity that struck me as one where the drive might be a large part of the experience.
I think I need to locate a good book or non confusing website about all the Dolomite Pass options.
You had mentioned driving passes and then returning car to Bolzano. I can still do that. It seems when I added a day to the trip (which I did by dropping it off a few hours later), my rate changed to weekly (cheaper) and the drop off fee dropped dramatically. So it is about the same price whether I drop off in Venice or Bolzano. But wouldn't that also be about the same amount of time driving?
I just don't want to get all the way across the world to the Dolomites and miss out on the beautiful scenery or experiences. But I know our time is limited. Normally, would I drive 5 hours just to see the scenery? No way. But this is an opportunity that struck me as one where the drive might be a large part of the experience.
I think I need to locate a good book or non confusing website about all the Dolomite Pass options.
Jan 21st, 2019, 12:19 PM
#77
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Book that fast trains Venice to Rome as soon as it is possible on www.trenitalia.com or https://www.italotreno.it/en - 2 competing railways running similar trains on same tracks and to same stations - booking early can nab limited in number discounted tickets - www.seat61.com has sage advice about booking your own discounted or full fare tickets online - general info trains like 1st v 2nd class also www.ricksteves.com and BETS-European Rail Experts. disconted tickets not changeable no refundable so be sure of day and time and don't miss the train. Tickets come with mandated seat reservations - you can select I think seats when booking on line.
Last edited by PalenQ; Jan 21st, 2019 at 12:24 PM.
Jan 21st, 2019, 04:55 PM
#78
Google estimates the drive from Ortisei to Cortina to Mestre at 3:48 hours. I always consider Google's estimate optimistic, but I wouldn't say the drive would be 5 hours without stops. More like 4:15-4:30 hours. Obviously, much of the route in the mountains can only be done at a slow speed, but the distance is only 135 miles. Once you reach the A27 in the Belluno area, driving speed really picks up. So, if you left Ortisei at 9:00a and stopped in Cortina for lunch and a little wander, you should reach Mestre by 3:00p. There are fast train departures from Mestre to Rome at 4:37p, 4:47p and 5:37p that take 3:33 hours.
If that still doesn't sound appealing, you could drive the Sella Ring on your one full day in Ortisei. From Ortisei, head to Passo Pordoi, Passo Campolongo, Passo Gardena, and back to Ortisei. (Just plug those destinations into maps.google.com for the driving route.) From the road, you'll see the Sella Towers and the Brunecker Turm, both spectacular geological sights. The circle is about 45 miles and would take almost 3 hours without stops or detours. There is so much more to see in the area, but the Sella Ring would be a fairly good 'sampler.'
Just FYI, there are fewer fast trains from Bolzano to Rome than from Mestre to Rome, and the duration is longer (4:32 hours). If you didn't take the fast train from Bolzano at 1:11p, the next is at 3:16p and the last is at 5:13p.
If that still doesn't sound appealing, you could drive the Sella Ring on your one full day in Ortisei. From Ortisei, head to Passo Pordoi, Passo Campolongo, Passo Gardena, and back to Ortisei. (Just plug those destinations into maps.google.com for the driving route.) From the road, you'll see the Sella Towers and the Brunecker Turm, both spectacular geological sights. The circle is about 45 miles and would take almost 3 hours without stops or detours. There is so much more to see in the area, but the Sella Ring would be a fairly good 'sampler.'
Just FYI, there are fewer fast trains from Bolzano to Rome than from Mestre to Rome, and the duration is longer (4:32 hours). If you didn't take the fast train from Bolzano at 1:11p, the next is at 3:16p and the last is at 5:13p.
Jan 21st, 2019, 05:34 PM
#79
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Just realized he drop off for the car in Venice is listed as Venice Rail Station office, Piazzale Roma-- across the canal from Santa Lucia. So its not at Mestre. Does that change things? Mestre does not seem to be an option w Auto Europe at least.
