Venice - a sort of trip report
Jan 12th, 2011 | 02:26 PM
#141
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 57,091
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Peter, glad to read that the Venetians are still doing what they do best - fleecing the tourists!
The Feast at the House of Levi I have always considered was a joke that went wrong - he put in people he knew and they took offence!
The Feast at the House of Levi I have always considered was a joke that went wrong - he put in people he knew and they took offence!
Jan 13th, 2011 | 02:03 AM
#142
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Joined: Oct 2008
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The church of San Pietro di Castello does not see a lot of visitors, but there’s a nice symbol of the rather testy relationship between the Doges (residing at San Marco) and the Patriarchs of Venice (residing at the Palazzio Patriacale in Castello, at least until 1807, when Napoleon decided that St. Marks should be the city cathedral).
If you visit, look for a white paving stone set in the path from Calle Larga San Pietro to the door of the church. The stone is equidistant from the church door and what would have been the landing stage for the Ducal barge. The Doge and Patriarch would meet at this exact spot when the Doge visited San Pietro. The stone created a meeting point, the Doge not having to walk all the way to the door, the Patriarch not having to walk all the way to greet the Doge as he disembarked. Temporal and secular honour being maintained with a mere paving stone.
San Pietro stands in stark contrast to many of the Venetian churches, its campanile clad in Istrian stone – the only stone clad campanile in Venice. Unlike the Frari and San Zanipolo, both of which churches host monuments to dead Doges, San Pietro hosts many dead patriarchs. There are no monuments to Canova, Titian or whoever, no Negroes holding the ugliest monument in all of Venice. The interior is plain, filled with light, and somehow retains its spiritual feeling, a place of faith rather than monumental architecture. A fragment of Roman mosaic retained in front of one of the altars, the back of the church serving as the west wall for the adjacent boat yard.
Worth a visit if you’ve got a lazy hour or two.
If you visit, look for a white paving stone set in the path from Calle Larga San Pietro to the door of the church. The stone is equidistant from the church door and what would have been the landing stage for the Ducal barge. The Doge and Patriarch would meet at this exact spot when the Doge visited San Pietro. The stone created a meeting point, the Doge not having to walk all the way to the door, the Patriarch not having to walk all the way to greet the Doge as he disembarked. Temporal and secular honour being maintained with a mere paving stone.
San Pietro stands in stark contrast to many of the Venetian churches, its campanile clad in Istrian stone – the only stone clad campanile in Venice. Unlike the Frari and San Zanipolo, both of which churches host monuments to dead Doges, San Pietro hosts many dead patriarchs. There are no monuments to Canova, Titian or whoever, no Negroes holding the ugliest monument in all of Venice. The interior is plain, filled with light, and somehow retains its spiritual feeling, a place of faith rather than monumental architecture. A fragment of Roman mosaic retained in front of one of the altars, the back of the church serving as the west wall for the adjacent boat yard.
Worth a visit if you’ve got a lazy hour or two.
Jan 14th, 2011 | 08:55 AM
#145
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Joined: Oct 2008
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Friday 14th January, and we leave on Friday 21st January, so there’s a week to go. Only a week! How can this be? Something’s totally wrong. This is not good.
So today started with a couple of typically Venetian things.
First typically Venetian thing: cappuccino e’ brioche at Ai Artisti for breakfast.
Second typically Venetian thing: waiting for the traghetto at Palazzo Salvati to get across the Grand Canal to S.M. Giglio. The traghetto guys were on the San Marco side, must have seen us waiting, and totally ignored us. There’s no way that they were going to cross the Grand Canal, collect two people, and row back to the San Marco side for a measly one euro, the price of a coffee. I can’t say I blame them, either.
Walked down to the Salute, to visit the church, sans the press of people who made it impossible to see during the festival of the Salute on 21st November, which seems like an age ago. There are a whole lot of architectural details that I’d not known about the Salute, references to numerology. The number 8 crops up all over the place. Eight refers to the symbol of health and hope, the church is eight sided, sixteen rises to the steps on the podium, eight steps down to the Grand Canal. Interesting, if you hook into the Kabbalah thing. Dan Brown could have a field day with this.
One of Venice’s less visited “sights’ is the Palazzo Grimani in Castello, near the Campo Santa Maria Formosa. It’s worth a visit, and we enjoyed it. There’s an exhibition of the paintings of Bosch right now, finishing in March I believe, but the building itself is worth seeing. It’s been heavily restored, yet retains enough of the frescoes to allow one to see how a Palazzo worked. There’s the main stair to the Piano Nobili (for nobles to use) and the winding spirals for the servants to use to keep them out of sight of the nobles. A children’s room, with frescoed ceiling and exhortations on the walls – “Waste not, not want not” – the usual things, plus pictures of barn yard animals. A dining room, with pictures of game and fish. The Bosch paintings are pretty special, and seeing them hung in the Palazzo Grimani is special too – the Grimani family patronised, or at least bought, paintings by Bosch. It might be a palazzo, but you can see still how it was home to a family as well. If you visit, and Italian/English dictionary helps, as the room descriptions are in Italian only.
The Church of San Francesco della Vigne, over by what is left of the gasworks (started in 1841 by the De Frigiere-Cortin-Mongolfier company) has a couple of quiet cloisters, and the church contained, when we visited, Lou, me, the odd Tintoretto and a couple of Tiepolo works. It seems amazing that one can be let lose amongst such priceless things. A statement about trust, people doing the right thing. There’s an adjacent convent, and you can feel the female hand in the way the church is organised. Flowers, parish newspapers, a depiction of how a family should observe Christmas in appropriate fashion, and no less than 28 places where coins can be deposited. We lost count at 28.
To the Celestia vap stop, in search of a bar. There is always a bar at a vap stop, but not at Celsestia, so we got lucky. It’s funny how things can come about, how you can get lucky. OK, no bar, but there’s a walkway, a sort of steel fondamenta, along the north wall of the Arsenale, so we strolled along it, and what an eye opener it was.
The Arsenale was in the business of mass production of ships, and the ironmongery needed for them. It’s hard to get an idea of the scale of the production, but when you can look in through a window and see a line of about twenty five individual forges, you can get an idea of the scale of manufacture there. Those forges have been abandoned; not seeing a live coal for probably 200 years, but you can still get an idea of how busy it would have been then. Dante’s inferno, to be sure, twenty five smiths, twenty five strikers, plus who knows how many on the bellows, others carrying coal. I can imagine the activity. The hot metal shop has been re-roofed, but otherwise not much touched, so the industrial heritage is just preserving itself, waiting in a way to be rediscovered. But maybe it’s not what people come to Venice to see, so it may well rest as it is for another 200 years, undiscovered. I think that the more that I see, the more I come to understand that Venice has been an industrial as well as an artistic and commercial centre.
Junghans once had a factory on Giudecca, making watches, precision instruments, timers and dets for grenades. Junghan’s factory has been converted to university uses, and I was surprised when I saw a Corte Junghans on Giudecca – the letter “J” is not used in the Italian language, and Junghans does not appear on my street finder.
Ferry from the Bacini stop (press the button to ensure that the ferry stops there, it’s a request stop) over to the Lido. I can imagine that the Lido quite hums along in Summer, but in Winter it is, well, quiet. We walked over to the public beach at the Lido, to find beach structures dreamed up by the same set of architects that would have done the Ferrovia, everything circular. Dipped our toes in the Adriatic, and took the first photos of the trip with no people in them. If you were familiar with the art of the Australian, Jeffrey Smart, then you’d know the feeling. Depopulated somewhat industrial landscapes, a single figure placed in the painting for contrast. Can’t show a photo, but it feels like this: http://camtas.com.au/catalog/wvgn78_l_63774.htm
So that’s been today, mostly spent in the more remote parts of this curious place.
So today started with a couple of typically Venetian things.
First typically Venetian thing: cappuccino e’ brioche at Ai Artisti for breakfast.
Second typically Venetian thing: waiting for the traghetto at Palazzo Salvati to get across the Grand Canal to S.M. Giglio. The traghetto guys were on the San Marco side, must have seen us waiting, and totally ignored us. There’s no way that they were going to cross the Grand Canal, collect two people, and row back to the San Marco side for a measly one euro, the price of a coffee. I can’t say I blame them, either.
Walked down to the Salute, to visit the church, sans the press of people who made it impossible to see during the festival of the Salute on 21st November, which seems like an age ago. There are a whole lot of architectural details that I’d not known about the Salute, references to numerology. The number 8 crops up all over the place. Eight refers to the symbol of health and hope, the church is eight sided, sixteen rises to the steps on the podium, eight steps down to the Grand Canal. Interesting, if you hook into the Kabbalah thing. Dan Brown could have a field day with this.
One of Venice’s less visited “sights’ is the Palazzo Grimani in Castello, near the Campo Santa Maria Formosa. It’s worth a visit, and we enjoyed it. There’s an exhibition of the paintings of Bosch right now, finishing in March I believe, but the building itself is worth seeing. It’s been heavily restored, yet retains enough of the frescoes to allow one to see how a Palazzo worked. There’s the main stair to the Piano Nobili (for nobles to use) and the winding spirals for the servants to use to keep them out of sight of the nobles. A children’s room, with frescoed ceiling and exhortations on the walls – “Waste not, not want not” – the usual things, plus pictures of barn yard animals. A dining room, with pictures of game and fish. The Bosch paintings are pretty special, and seeing them hung in the Palazzo Grimani is special too – the Grimani family patronised, or at least bought, paintings by Bosch. It might be a palazzo, but you can see still how it was home to a family as well. If you visit, and Italian/English dictionary helps, as the room descriptions are in Italian only.
The Church of San Francesco della Vigne, over by what is left of the gasworks (started in 1841 by the De Frigiere-Cortin-Mongolfier company) has a couple of quiet cloisters, and the church contained, when we visited, Lou, me, the odd Tintoretto and a couple of Tiepolo works. It seems amazing that one can be let lose amongst such priceless things. A statement about trust, people doing the right thing. There’s an adjacent convent, and you can feel the female hand in the way the church is organised. Flowers, parish newspapers, a depiction of how a family should observe Christmas in appropriate fashion, and no less than 28 places where coins can be deposited. We lost count at 28.
To the Celestia vap stop, in search of a bar. There is always a bar at a vap stop, but not at Celsestia, so we got lucky. It’s funny how things can come about, how you can get lucky. OK, no bar, but there’s a walkway, a sort of steel fondamenta, along the north wall of the Arsenale, so we strolled along it, and what an eye opener it was.
The Arsenale was in the business of mass production of ships, and the ironmongery needed for them. It’s hard to get an idea of the scale of the production, but when you can look in through a window and see a line of about twenty five individual forges, you can get an idea of the scale of manufacture there. Those forges have been abandoned; not seeing a live coal for probably 200 years, but you can still get an idea of how busy it would have been then. Dante’s inferno, to be sure, twenty five smiths, twenty five strikers, plus who knows how many on the bellows, others carrying coal. I can imagine the activity. The hot metal shop has been re-roofed, but otherwise not much touched, so the industrial heritage is just preserving itself, waiting in a way to be rediscovered. But maybe it’s not what people come to Venice to see, so it may well rest as it is for another 200 years, undiscovered. I think that the more that I see, the more I come to understand that Venice has been an industrial as well as an artistic and commercial centre.
Junghans once had a factory on Giudecca, making watches, precision instruments, timers and dets for grenades. Junghan’s factory has been converted to university uses, and I was surprised when I saw a Corte Junghans on Giudecca – the letter “J” is not used in the Italian language, and Junghans does not appear on my street finder.
Ferry from the Bacini stop (press the button to ensure that the ferry stops there, it’s a request stop) over to the Lido. I can imagine that the Lido quite hums along in Summer, but in Winter it is, well, quiet. We walked over to the public beach at the Lido, to find beach structures dreamed up by the same set of architects that would have done the Ferrovia, everything circular. Dipped our toes in the Adriatic, and took the first photos of the trip with no people in them. If you were familiar with the art of the Australian, Jeffrey Smart, then you’d know the feeling. Depopulated somewhat industrial landscapes, a single figure placed in the painting for contrast. Can’t show a photo, but it feels like this: http://camtas.com.au/catalog/wvgn78_l_63774.htm
So that’s been today, mostly spent in the more remote parts of this curious place.
Jan 14th, 2011 | 09:54 AM
#146
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 4,622
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An interesting conjunction. From the description of our apartment, by the owners:
“The little house in Venice was our father's home. He bought it in the early 60s and had it remodelled by a talented student of the famous Italian architect, Carlo Scarpa.”
Then the fun begins – little linkages being created, heading off down a little visual and intellectual path. OK, how does our apartment reflect Scarpa’s work. Our pharmacist in South Melbourne told us about a tour he’d taken in America, looking at the work of Frank Lloyd Wright, and we saw his photos of Falling Water, etc.
Scarpa was influenced by Wright.
Our apartment was designed by Scarpa’s student.
OK, better go and look at some of Scarpa’s work in Venice, the Olivetti showroom in San Marco, the entry to the University Institute of Architecture in Santa Croce, where a door frame has been laid on its side, the monument to the Female Resistance Fighter near the Giardini, the work in the Accademia . A picture emerges, a way of seeing things, a certain style. And that style is reflected in our apartment, the way that timber has been used, and also in the details of a few places that we’ve seen in Venice, a doorknob here, a steel grille there. Details that have been copied from Scarpa’s work, and once you know it, they stand out.
Little linkages that create a thread, a story. There’s more to this place than the Basilica and the Ducal Palace.
“The little house in Venice was our father's home. He bought it in the early 60s and had it remodelled by a talented student of the famous Italian architect, Carlo Scarpa.”
Then the fun begins – little linkages being created, heading off down a little visual and intellectual path. OK, how does our apartment reflect Scarpa’s work. Our pharmacist in South Melbourne told us about a tour he’d taken in America, looking at the work of Frank Lloyd Wright, and we saw his photos of Falling Water, etc.
Scarpa was influenced by Wright.
Our apartment was designed by Scarpa’s student.
OK, better go and look at some of Scarpa’s work in Venice, the Olivetti showroom in San Marco, the entry to the University Institute of Architecture in Santa Croce, where a door frame has been laid on its side, the monument to the Female Resistance Fighter near the Giardini, the work in the Accademia . A picture emerges, a way of seeing things, a certain style. And that style is reflected in our apartment, the way that timber has been used, and also in the details of a few places that we’ve seen in Venice, a doorknob here, a steel grille there. Details that have been copied from Scarpa’s work, and once you know it, they stand out.
Little linkages that create a thread, a story. There’s more to this place than the Basilica and the Ducal Palace.
Jan 15th, 2011 | 10:02 AM
#151
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 4,622
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Two years ago, we wanted to have coffee at Quadris, in the sun. The only sunny day was when Quadri’s was under about six inches of water, so that coffee never happened.
But today, glorious sunshine, and so we rented a table at Quadris for an hour and a half, watching people come and go, the Japanese bridal party wandering around in a slightly bereft fashion, and potential clients looking at the prices and declining service. Quadris threw in a couple of spritzes along with the table rental, so it was a pretty good deal for 21 euro. Mission accomplished, and if the sun shines again, we’ll spend another hour or two just watching the people, the by-play between the waiters, the pigeons, and playing “guess the nationality”.
Lou was the “guess the nationality” winner today, correctly spotting that the foursome beside us were from Molvania, a land untouched by modern dentistry. The acrylic tracksuit pants were a dead giveaway, though.
Taking refreshments at a cafe that's been in business for about 500 years.
But today, glorious sunshine, and so we rented a table at Quadris for an hour and a half, watching people come and go, the Japanese bridal party wandering around in a slightly bereft fashion, and potential clients looking at the prices and declining service. Quadris threw in a couple of spritzes along with the table rental, so it was a pretty good deal for 21 euro. Mission accomplished, and if the sun shines again, we’ll spend another hour or two just watching the people, the by-play between the waiters, the pigeons, and playing “guess the nationality”.
Lou was the “guess the nationality” winner today, correctly spotting that the foursome beside us were from Molvania, a land untouched by modern dentistry. The acrylic tracksuit pants were a dead giveaway, though.
Taking refreshments at a cafe that's been in business for about 500 years.
Jan 15th, 2011 | 10:40 AM
#152
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 57,091
Likes: 5
Quadris threw in a couple of spritzes along with the table rental, so it was a pretty good deal for 21 euro>>
LOL Peter - was that one spritz each or two? we spent last weekend in Paris where table rental appears to be €10 for about 30 mins [ie one drink each] so Quadris is pretty comparable.
I haven't played "guess the nationality" in a formal sense - have you worked out a scoring system? do obscure nationalities count higher than more common ones? how did Lou know that she was right about the Molvanians - did you ask them?
LOL Peter - was that one spritz each or two? we spent last weekend in Paris where table rental appears to be €10 for about 30 mins [ie one drink each] so Quadris is pretty comparable.
I haven't played "guess the nationality" in a formal sense - have you worked out a scoring system? do obscure nationalities count higher than more common ones? how did Lou know that she was right about the Molvanians - did you ask them?
Jan 16th, 2011 | 05:29 AM
#155
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 31,171
Likes: 0
you really only need to get just off the the main drag in a few hotspots, like the streets immediately off Piazza San Marco and either side of the Rialto Bridge, and it's not busy -
√Agree and it may be because the tour groups often allot 2 days to Venice-there's no time for further exploration.
Molvania, a land untouched by modern dentistry
√Oh Dear! DH and I composed their life stories while people watching. In Venice in March, we came upon university graduation festivities. The students compose their own life stories (illustrated) on a poster-sized paper. They then read it aloud. If they make omissions, they are drenched or floured (or both) and everyone sings a song beginning "dottore, dottore....". Did you happen upon such in Dec/January?
√Agree and it may be because the tour groups often allot 2 days to Venice-there's no time for further exploration.
Molvania, a land untouched by modern dentistry
√Oh Dear! DH and I composed their life stories while people watching. In Venice in March, we came upon university graduation festivities. The students compose their own life stories (illustrated) on a poster-sized paper. They then read it aloud. If they make omissions, they are drenched or floured (or both) and everyone sings a song beginning "dottore, dottore....". Did you happen upon such in Dec/January?
Jan 16th, 2011 | 06:04 AM
#156
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 4,622
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Ann, the formal rules for “Guess the Nationality” are not as yet fully documented, but to give you a guide:
Maple leaves on clothing – half a point, as exceptionally obvious.
Young women saying “Like, you know, awesome” – two points, as they could be English, American or Australian.
Women with 3,000 euro furs. Three points, as they could be Italian, French, or maybe Austrian. Bonus points if one can spot that they are the “companion” of a Milanese business tycoon, or a politician.
Molvanians – ten points. Molvavians are scarce on the tourist circuit, but the astute observer can pick them because they look like Mafia, have moustaches, and may be carrying handguns. However the men can be identified because they wear Cossack-type boots, and wear gold jewellery. Interestingly, the Patron Saint of Molvania is St Fyodor, a corruption of Theodore, or maybe Fodor. It is hard to tell.
For a more detailed view of Molvania, you might refer to this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molvan%C3%AEa
This useful guide book is a companion volume to Phaic Tan – Sunstroke on a Shoestring, and San Sombrero, a land of Carnivals, Cocktails and Coups. Molvania, Phaic Tan and San Sombrero would be available at any poor bookshop. According to the book the "full and technically correct" name of San Sombrèro is the "Democratic Free People’s United Republic of San Sombrèro", and citizens may be arrested, without a warrant, if the title is not used.
Maple leaves on clothing – half a point, as exceptionally obvious.
Young women saying “Like, you know, awesome” – two points, as they could be English, American or Australian.
Women with 3,000 euro furs. Three points, as they could be Italian, French, or maybe Austrian. Bonus points if one can spot that they are the “companion” of a Milanese business tycoon, or a politician.
Molvanians – ten points. Molvavians are scarce on the tourist circuit, but the astute observer can pick them because they look like Mafia, have moustaches, and may be carrying handguns. However the men can be identified because they wear Cossack-type boots, and wear gold jewellery. Interestingly, the Patron Saint of Molvania is St Fyodor, a corruption of Theodore, or maybe Fodor. It is hard to tell.
For a more detailed view of Molvania, you might refer to this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molvan%C3%AEa
This useful guide book is a companion volume to Phaic Tan – Sunstroke on a Shoestring, and San Sombrero, a land of Carnivals, Cocktails and Coups. Molvania, Phaic Tan and San Sombrero would be available at any poor bookshop. According to the book the "full and technically correct" name of San Sombrèro is the "Democratic Free People’s United Republic of San Sombrèro", and citizens may be arrested, without a warrant, if the title is not used.
Jan 16th, 2011 | 12:58 PM
#157
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 307
Likes: 0
Peter- you may have missed the Moldavian/Phaic Tan/Sombrero's Christmas cookbook contribution- Audrey Gordon's Tuscan Summer: Recipes & Recollections from the heart of Italy. In this best selling addition to the range
Audrey informs us that "my book is essrntially a practical guide that will help you plan and carry off everything from a lazy Sunday brunch with friends to a formal sit-down banquet for 300 lactose-intolerant, diabetic vegans with severe peanut allergies...". "As well as mouth-watering recipes, Audrey presents evocative reflections on the timeless beauty of everyday Tuscan life, along with her thoughts on the inadequacies of Italy's motorway system." She did not, however, spot any Molvavians
Enjoy your last few days in Venice- your contributions have been a great pleasure & are sustaining me until my next visit
Audrey informs us that "my book is essrntially a practical guide that will help you plan and carry off everything from a lazy Sunday brunch with friends to a formal sit-down banquet for 300 lactose-intolerant, diabetic vegans with severe peanut allergies...". "As well as mouth-watering recipes, Audrey presents evocative reflections on the timeless beauty of everyday Tuscan life, along with her thoughts on the inadequacies of Italy's motorway system." She did not, however, spot any Molvavians
Enjoy your last few days in Venice- your contributions have been a great pleasure & are sustaining me until my next visit
Jan 16th, 2011 | 01:05 PM
#158
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 45,322
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Peter, haven't you two see any young and quite sexy young women with shall we say much older Russian men while you are in Venice? As my Italian friends have often said "what they don't have regarding youth or looks they make up for with money.". Take care, I so enjoy your posts!
Jan 17th, 2011 | 06:11 AM
#159
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 6,282
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Peter, Scarpa also remodelled part of what is now the Fondazione Querini Stampalia, including a wonderful area inside the water gate which you negotiate via concrete slabs like stepping stones - it's really worth seeing. It's altogether a very interesting place to visit - you do pay to get in, but when we went there was all of the following to see/do/use, most of it permanent -
- the ground floor as remodelled by Scarpa
- a nice small garden at the back
- a country's Biennale virtual 'Pavilion' exhibition, also on the ground floor (Croatia maybe ?)
- the original library which is still used and which you can peek into
- a whole floor kept as it would have been in its days as a palace (18th C ?), with fairly interesting furnishings and paintings
- an extensive top floor space for temporary exhibitions of contemporary art - Mona Hatoum when we were there (there were also a few pieces placed into the historic rooms below which made for some fascinating juxtapositions)
- an arty gift shop
- a nice cafe
- so we thought it was good value.
I don't want you to leave either ! Hope you are having a really fantastic last week.
- the ground floor as remodelled by Scarpa
- a nice small garden at the back
- a country's Biennale virtual 'Pavilion' exhibition, also on the ground floor (Croatia maybe ?)
- the original library which is still used and which you can peek into
- a whole floor kept as it would have been in its days as a palace (18th C ?), with fairly interesting furnishings and paintings
- an extensive top floor space for temporary exhibitions of contemporary art - Mona Hatoum when we were there (there were also a few pieces placed into the historic rooms below which made for some fascinating juxtapositions)
- an arty gift shop
- a nice cafe
- so we thought it was good value.
I don't want you to leave either ! Hope you are having a really fantastic last week.
Jan 17th, 2011 | 07:26 AM
#160
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 4,622
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Caroline, I've got that on the list of things to see. I bought Carlo Scarpa, and Architectural guide (Arsenale Editrice, 11 euro) and I've so enjoyed reading the "thinking" behind his work. For that building, allowing the water to enter, and freely leave, is a different way of viewing water. There's a great dialogue between the built structures and the viewer / explorer / visitor.
