I have been to Paris several times in the past 2 years, and I'm looking for some new things to see and do in Paris. Does anyone have suggestions of museums, churches, etc. off the beaten path? <BR>Thanks! <BR>

I don't know if you've visited Monet's <BR>Gardens in Giverny, but its spectacular. <BR>Bring lots of film. Its about a 40 minute train ride from Paris and after that a bus goes into Giverny or you can do as we did and rent bicycles at the train station like we did.

Amy - <BR> <BR>I'm not sure what you've already seen so I'm just going to list a few of the "not as popular as the Eiffel Tower & Louvre" things that come to mind. You've probably already done at least 1/2 of them. <BR> <BR>Versailles <BR>Giverny (as above) <BR>Fountainbleau (sp?) <BR>Chartres <BR> <BR>In Paris: <BR> <BR>Catacombs <BR>Archeology dig near (under) Notre Dame <BR>Salvador Dali Museum (Montmartre) <BR>Musee Montmartre (Montmartre) <BR>Jean Moulin Museum (left bank, I can picture it on the map but I don't know what "actual" area it's in) <BR>Textile/Fashion Museum (near Eiffel) <BR>Baccarrat Crystal Museum (near Opera) <BR>Opera Museum in the Opera house (Opera) <BR>Picasso Museum (Marias quarter) <BR>Musee Carnavalet (Marias quarter) <BR> <BR>If I think of anything else I'll let you know. <BR> <BR

Ooops ! I think Amy said unusual...? Indeed, not everybody goes there, but since Monet was sponsored by americans, there are many visiting giverny every year ! <BR>Try St Germain-en-Laye, end of RER A -away from DISNEY ! The castle/park has a great view -the museum is archeologie, but is't a litlle boring. Same for Parc de Sceau, just spend an afternoon in the parc. <BR>At midnight, "au vieux Paris", 6 r Mornay 75004 (between Hotel de ville and beaubourg), they sing french songs -except sunday & monday. That was one of my favorite, as a student. Now here is a few others : <BR>Have seen Cluny ? Brunched on wednesday at la charlotte de l'ile (St Louis) ? Attended the 1 1/2 hour-monks office at St Gervais, 6pm (except mondays ), behind the Hotel de Ville ? Taken Bus 72 from Hotel de Ville to Eiffel Tower ? Walked along le canal St Martin ? Found le village St Paul (Marais) ? Saw a good play rue de la gaite (watch out, sex shops too) ? Took Metro between Passy and Bir Hakeim at dawn, looking left when you're in the direction of the train ? Gave some harm-exercise for your husband on the lakes of Vincennes, Boulogne, or Versailles ? Road a bike on sundays on "les Quais", when they are closed (spring/summer) ? Ate a "la vieille trousse", Bvd St Germain (they make fun of the customers) ? SPENT THE ENTIRE NIGHT OF THE 21ST OF JUNE IN PARIS : MUSIC FEAST ! Start place des vosges, with choirs, then along the Seine -watch out for quartier Latin, wild that night. Seen the Champs-Elysee for the 14th of july ? Laughed to "les tours de Buren", in the "Palais royal" ? Know the Musee Rodin ? Ate at le palet, 8 r Beaujolais 75001 ? Seen a strike, place de la republique or de la madeleine ? Looked in pariscope (is it still 2FF ?) for the free concerts every day in Paris ? Didn't miss the temporary must-see exhibition at le grand palais ? Seen a play at la comedie francaise (classical, but great ; cheap last-minute tickets) ? Drove your car on le rond-point des champs elysees (thrill) ? Walked in Parc monceau ? Musee de l'orangerie, du jeu de paume ? Observed the crowd entering Jussieu University from 8 to 10 am ? Participated to the street play, on sunny days, in front of "SOHO" shop of Beaubourg ? And what about falling in love in les jardins du luxembourg (see the fontaine on the right of the Senat when facing it) ? Stoped by rue d'Ulm, near pantheon, for the most difficult school in France ? Agreed that la Sorbonne is much nicer ? did shopping rue de Rennes ? Saw the little prince, rue Notre-Dame des Champs ? Hired an engineer from ISEP, #28 of the same street (my school) ? Seen the second building of the same school, in le jardin du seminaire of the catholic university, rue d'Assas (it's the only non interesting building) ? Felt like a SS during WWII in it's general quarter at the Lutecia hotel, rue de Sevres/Bvd Raspail ? <BR> <BR>Well, I have to go and pick up my wife, it's 9 pm, but if someone wants more, I can really brainstorm.

Amy, I've also been wondering what people do who have been to Paris many times. Gregoire had many good suggestions. I also reccommend the Marmottan musuem, Parc Monseau, the shopping around Rue Passy in the 16th, the canals of St Martin, the covered passageways for small, quaint, charming shops. In the 17th there is Ave Ternes for some middle-class shopping. And lots of cafe time just realxing and absorbing the ambience watching the people hustling by.

If you like cathedrals, I recommend the St. Denis cathedral. It's easily accessible by metro, and it's one of my favorite cathedrals. Most of the kings of France are buried there, and some of the stained glass dates from about the same time as the Chartres cathedral.

I am not sure if I read this on this forum or elsewhere but the Arab nightclubs in Paris are supposed to be very interesting and expensive ( bring a guy with you.) Also, I also read that there is or was a lively gathering of transvestites in the Bois de Boulougne on, I think, Sundays. <BR> <BR>

OK, that's a nice challenge, and it's always interesting to be racking one's brain for a real connoisseur ! <BR> <BR>So, I suggest a thematical itinerary, based on the fact that most people only know the obvious about Paris, i. e. the old and central parts. So, let's try to surprise them by naming new and/or out of the way places. <BR> <BR>1) Parks <BR>Of course, everyone knows the Tuileries and Luxembourg gardens. But who has been to Jardin André Citroën ? It's the newest, and best park in Paris, located at the very South-Western tip of the city, 15th arrrondissement, metro Balard. A huge lawn, great fountains, cascades, green-houses with changing exhibitions, great urban view. The only competitor in this categoy would be Jardins du Haut de Belleville, in the picturesque area of Belleville, home to Maurice Chevalier and Edith Piaf. The real Paris. Just climb rue des Envierges (20th arr.). At the top, there is a restaurant, with the most beautiful view over Paris. But don't repeat it, or it'll get as crowded as Montmartre. And the garden is a terraced one, a little Bali in Paris ! Last in this category, a classical garden, les Buttes Chaumont, that very few tourists visit, since it is slightly out of the way (metro : Botzaris), even though it is for me the best haussmanian park in Paris, beautifully landscaped, the neighborhood around staged like a theater. <BR> <BR>2) New equipments <BR>Of course, Paris is the most beautiful city of the world (needless to say ! ) for its old monuments. But it's not only a museum, it's living, and new monuments have been added, even though they are controversial in a conservative country such as ours. But in my opinion some are worth a visit : <BR>- the new national library (Bibliothèque nationale de France) in the 13th arrondissement. A very controversial monument in a redeveloped neighborhood. Personnally I like it, even though it is not functional. But it's worth a look, and it'll give you an opportunity to take our latest, fully automatic, metro line (#14, stop : Bibliothèque François Mitterrand - yes, that's its name) <BR>- La Villette : exactly at the opposite of Jardin Citroën, at the North-Eastern tip. Acres of a former slaughterhouse have been redevelopped into a park + science museum + Rock concert hall + a very interesting state-of-the art music museum. Definitely the new Paris, ethnically mixed as well. Cherry on the cake : you can go there via a bateau-mouche -not the one on the Seine that you must have taken zillion times, but the one you take at the Bastille port, then rides on Canal saint-Martin, up to La Villette. Magical! <BR>- The "Coulée verte" (12th arr.). There used to be a railroad from Bastille to the bois de Vincennes. It's been out of use for decades, but fortunately the authorities decided to transform its viaduct into an original, narrow park, that strolls above the 12th arr. Very nice on a sunny day, to be avoided on Sundays. <BR> <BR>3) Ethnic neighborhoods <BR>One out of four Parisians is a foreigner, one out of three either a foreigner, or a "beur" (born in France from Algerian, Moroccan or Tunisian parents), or from the French Caribbean. So the "typical" Parisian doesn't have the beret and the baguette any more. If you want some taste of the Maghreb and West Africa, try the neighborhood around metro station Barbès (18th arr.) ; we have our little Chinatown (actually more Vietnamese than Chinese) in the 13th, around Porte de Choisy ; and also a little India rue Louis Blanc in the 10th, metro La Chapelle. <BR> <BR>4) Parisian villages <BR>it's a cliché to say that Paris is made of villages, but it's not entirely wrong: try strolling in "La Campagne à Paris", a former blue-collar area, now heavily gentrified, starting place Edith Piaf, in the 20th (metro Porte-de-Bagnolet); or in La Butte aux Cailles, the former anarchist neighborhood in the 13th arr., now maybe a little bit too heavily restaured, but still cute ; or in a more upper-class mood, the village d'Auteuil in the 16th, with the XVIIIth Century houses that still resist. <BR> <BR>5) Unusual museums <BR>Funnily enough, I've never seen anybody in this forum mention the Institut du Monde arabe, great building by Jean Nouvel, and host to very good exhibitions (currently on Lebanon). And a secret tip : the view from the restaurant on top is... breathtaking (5th arr. metro Jussieu). <BR>In the same ethnic mood, a tribute to France's colonial past is the Musée des Arts africains et océaniens, former "Musée des colonies", that hosts world-class collections of African and Oceanian art. It's on the verge of the Bois de Vincennes, in a charming neighborhood (metro Porte Dorée, 12th arr.) and the building itself is a moument of 30's colonial kitsch. <BR>If you are into that, you can also visit some writers' houses : Balzac's and Hugo's are located in the 16th, not bad. Finally, if you are interested in Paris architecture and urban development, you should visit the Pavillon de l'Arsenal, near Bastille (metro Sully-Morland), a beautifully rehabilitated old building that host permanent and temporary exhibitions on those subjects. <BR> <BR>6) The charms of the "banlieue" <BR>As you know, most Parisians despise the banlieue (suburbs), which they actually don't know. Some places are interesting, though : the above post mentioned Saint-Denis, which is at the same time a traditional working-class, communist suburb, the cradle of French royalty with the basilica, and the location of the Stade de France, where they played several games of the last soccer world cup, including the final : if you like modern architecture, definitely a must ! <BR>Otherwise you can take the RER B line towards Disneyland, but get off at "Noisy le Grand Mont d'Est" : you'll be facing Ricardo Bofill's enormous housing complex, in which parts of "Brazil" were shot. One or two stations later, at Noisiel, you can visit the former Menier factories : Mr Menier was the biggest chocolate manufacturer in XIXth Century France, and an adept of utopist/paternalistic theories. He built his factory according to his beliefs. Very interesting ! <BR> <BR>7) Why not renting ? <BR>- A bicycle : hoping that his constituents would forget his bribery charges, our mayor is taken by a frenzy of bike-path building. ANd now there are actually quite a lot in Paris, very well protected, and biking is not the kamikaze activity it used to be in the City of Light ! So why don't you try that on a fine day ? <BR>- a car : you'll be forgiven only for one purpose : to go and visit Vaux-le-vicomte, 60 km South-East of Paris, the gem of chateaux, much more elegant than Versailles, and much less crowded. Another secret tip not to be repeated : on Saturday nights May to September, you visit it candle-lit, just like Louis XIV saw it (and became so jealous that he put the owner, his own Minister of Finance, in jail for the rest of his life. Some say he was the Mask of Iron, but that's another story... ) <BR> <BR>If you read French, I would recommend you buy a Guide du Routard Paris, which is a wealth of off-the-beaten path information. And on the spot, get a copy of Nova Mag, the trendy city magazine (partly available on the web at www.novaplanet.com); <BR>Have fun, and don't hesitate to be more accurate in your needs !

Vincent, bravo! Great suggestions.

Check out LESSER KNOW PARIS DELIGHTS posted on this forum on 3-10-99. <BR>The transvestite show is on Saturday, and that's only one of the "lesser delights" listed.

Hello Vincent and Cheryl, you both mentioned St. Denis. I'm interested in more information on this such as which metro to take and where to get off; how much time should I allot? Thanks. Vincent, you have very interesting suggestions!

Vincent, I'm printing out your post and keeping it. Thanks. <BR> <BR>One place not mentioned so far is the Musee Gustave Moreau, a collection of the symbolist painter's works in his former studio. But I'd advise checking out his rather peculiar art in a book first, because you'll find it either interesting or repellant. <BR> <BR>Amy, you might want to look at the Blue Guide to Paris, if you haven't already, for some of the less well-known sites.

Monica, there are several metro lines to go to Saint-Denis. If you just want to see the basilica, then take metro line # 13, and get off at the last station : "Saint-Denis Basilique", you'll be right there ! For the stadium, it's better to take RER B and get off at : "Saint-Denis/Stade de France"

Vincent, thanks for the information! What is the stadium?

What great suggestions! I'm printing it out for my Paris file!! <BR>An off-the-beaten path spot that's become a favorite of ours is the Viaduct des Arts, UNDER the long park that Vincent (I think ) listed. There is one craftsman's atelier after another beneath the long narrow park atop the old aqueduct. The chance to see all the wonderful craftsmanship, and in some cases buy examples of it, is a real treat. <BR>

Monica, the stadium is the Stade de France, of World Cup fame...

Wouah ! I am challenged ! Last time I was in paris was a year ago, and last time actually living there was two years ago, so I feel like my brain is gone : Chapeau, Vincent ! (Hats off, everybody...) <BR>I confirm the coulee verte, just behind the new opera, which actually shortened it, such a shame. There is also an other house for Victor Hugo, in place des Vosges, you know, the marvelous one. Not far from it you'll find place du marche Sainte Catherine, just a nice place with bars, I kind of like it, it's small and pretty (there's a bar where they do magic, I think it's called le double fond). I forgot to mention all the "hotels" in the marais. There are maps on this in most train stations in the area (at least I know there's one in Sully-Morland, just on the edge of the Marais). Don't miss hotel Sully, on rue saint Antoine. <BR>About the new nationnal library, I think the main interest for americans is to find there free internet access to give live news to your relatives. But I don't like it. It's like the tax building, on the other side of the Seine : but if you like mondern architecture, you'll be happy there. <BR>I also confirm that biking is great in Paris, but people drive like on highways, so you might not feel confortable. If you dare to, then think of going through the Louvre court at night, and on rue de Rivoli : you'll get to see it from outside, enlightened, it's wonderfull, and you don't pay a buck, and there no queue ! And, as I said in an other posting, the quais de la Seine are closed to cars on sundays : that is great, trust me. Here's an adresse to rent bikes : Bike'N Roller, 6 rue St Julien le pauvre, near the orthdoxe church of the same name, which is just wonderfull. And while you're there don't forget about St Severin church (rue St severin...), with the most beautifull organ of paris -far better than the new one at Notre Dame to listen to-, and just behind it is a real cloister. All this can be accessed from Metro St Michel -or notre dame. <BR>This reminds me : when you go to Notre Dame, because you are showing Paris to a friend of yours who doesn't know it yet, instead of the tourists crowd, enter the big building on your left when you are facing the cathedrale -it's an old hospital, called hotel Dieu, in which you can just have a walk and it's so nice ! It looks like le palais royal. Also, when you're done with that, walk arround that same block, still on the ile de la cite, and find the marche aux fleurs -flower market, wouh, that's cute. Place dauphine, on the tip of the island going west (Notre dame on your back), is the favorite place for boule players, really pretty. And if you miss your big macy's, cross the Seine to your right, there's a great galery there -what's the name, Vincent ? <BR>Also think of walking in the cimetiere du pere lachaise : a large cemetery where thousands of VIP where buiried. Tours make it more enjoyable, cause there are thousand of stories on every person, and too many tombs to see. <BR>MAN ! Vincent is so right, forget about Versailles and go to Vaux-le-vicompte, how could I forget that one ?! <BR>By the way, if you have to go on the Champs Elysee, walk near place de la concorde, and under the trees, you can see the french white house (palais de l'Elysee)... Ever wondered how come the USA put their ambassy just next to it, on place de la concorde ? <BR>And if you are more than rich, go for some shopping place vendome, it's no longer IBM's headquarter, but all the big fashion names have a branch there, and it's calmer than any other place -more expensive too ! <BR>If you want to get an idea of what Orsay was at the time it was a strain station -not a museum, which is obviously great-, find a day to stop at gare St Lazare, it's not the best thing in the world, but it's still in this modern style of the late 19th century. <BR> <BR>Your turn, Vincent, I need to work a (little) bit...

Wonderful, everyone. Wish I had this list a week ago . . . now I'm home. Darn. <BR> <BR>A delightful hour would be to attend Mass at St. Sulpice, and be sure to get there early to hear the organ playing . . . one of the most beautiful in the world. OUTSTANDING for a few minutes to rest your feet, take a light snooze. <BR> <BR>Everyone strolls thru the Tuileries. We had breakfast there one day, and ate a croc monseiur and drank cafe creme, and WATCHED the strollers. <BR> <BR>How about the women's sculptures at the Musee d'Orsay? <BR> <BR>Although I've been up the Eiffel a few times, all around the base of it, this trip we got off at Metro Trocadero, came up the steps, around the corner, and Voila! There it was, and it took my breath away! Countdown: 274. <BR> <BR>Travel to Montmartre via the Metro, and get off at Abbesses. Go UP the winding painted staircase--art with every step! <BR> <BR>Just watched the movie "Ronin" set in Paris and the South of France . . . great street shots, great car chases, and some looks at Paris the tourist luckily doesn't get. <BR> <BR>Best wishes! <BR>

Bravo Donna! "Ronin" was GREAT (even if very graphic and bloody)! The BAD thing was...NOW I WANT TO GO TO Arles(?), TOO! {Help me out here people} The first thing I did was rush home from the theater and look it up on a map (to see if there was any way possible we could go/stop there). Your right about the other, too...I sure hope(d) it IS NOT an accurate portrayal of France! I do understand that many European cities do have people (mostly policemen) carrying machine guns. That does not bother me though. I remember traveling from the Western US to Kentucky in 1979, and there were National Guardsmen with machine guns EVERYWHERE (on top of overpasses, etc.) due to the violence of the Truckers Strike. After "Ronin" I look differently at those outdoor cafes!!! And, I won't let my family watch it, until we return! It would freak them out!

What wonderful comments -- and how I wish I was still preparing for my next trip, instead of just back. But maybe I am preparing for my next trip . . . Anyway, a few of my very favorite Paris experiences, at least a couple of which weren't mentioned here: The Sunday bird market, which is on the Ile de la Cite not far from Notre Dame (this is the same market that sells flowers during the week) . . . the flower markets near la Madeleine . . . Cemetiere du Pere Lachaise, whether you're a Morrison fan or not -- one of the most beautiful places in the city, with lots of fascinating residents . . . the Thursday morning street market in the 5th, at the Maubert/Mutualite metro stop (be sure to look for the charming pate' vendor from LaFitte!) . . . Ste Chappelle . . . and possibly my very favorite of all, the Musee Rodin -- "The Kiss" and "The Hand of God" made me cry again, and the cafe and gardens are truly a perfect place to spend an afternoon. The one thing I wouldn't waste my time on again was the flea market at Clignacourt/St Ouen -- but it was a high point of the trip for my 13-year-old son, so I guess it's just in what you're looking for!