UK ? WWII Re-Enactments?
#1
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UK ? WWII Re-Enactments?
Recently i hiked from Chatham centrum to see the Chatham Historic Docks development/museum. Near the museum entrance in one of the huge old hangar type buildings i stumbled into what i gather is one of England's popular WWII memorabilia gatherings and trading posts.
There were several hundred war buffs dressed in all types of vintage WWII gear and tables selling lots of relics.
What grabbed my attention and shocked me were the guys parading around in Nazi uniforms - of the type Prince Harry was dragged thru the mud for wearing to some costume party.
Tables were selling "Jeden xxx" signs that Germans put up in public places to say Jews Not Allowed, etc.
This type of Nazi memorabilia and re-creating uniforms, etc. would never be possible in most of Europe - Germany i believe it's illegal and even in U.S., where it would not be legal but be anathema to most.
Note that Prince Harry got rebuked but these guys rather proudly parading around and selling Swastika'd stuff nobody seemed to care, but me.
Oh well just wondering what the British public things of this - guess it doesn't raise the hackles it would elsewhere. Seems unfair for Prince Harry to be singled out if society accepts it (I nefer thot i'd be defending the red-mob head party animal!)
There were several hundred war buffs dressed in all types of vintage WWII gear and tables selling lots of relics.
What grabbed my attention and shocked me were the guys parading around in Nazi uniforms - of the type Prince Harry was dragged thru the mud for wearing to some costume party.
Tables were selling "Jeden xxx" signs that Germans put up in public places to say Jews Not Allowed, etc.
This type of Nazi memorabilia and re-creating uniforms, etc. would never be possible in most of Europe - Germany i believe it's illegal and even in U.S., where it would not be legal but be anathema to most.
Note that Prince Harry got rebuked but these guys rather proudly parading around and selling Swastika'd stuff nobody seemed to care, but me.
Oh well just wondering what the British public things of this - guess it doesn't raise the hackles it would elsewhere. Seems unfair for Prince Harry to be singled out if society accepts it (I nefer thot i'd be defending the red-mob head party animal!)
#4
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There are also lots of people who enjoy dressing up in Allied uniforms, and driving old British and U.S. military vehicles.
Presumably, they need a mock "enemy" to engage with, so someone has to dress up as a Nazi. Better that it is done by the British, perhaps.
Presumably, they need a mock "enemy" to engage with, so someone has to dress up as a Nazi. Better that it is done by the British, perhaps.
#5
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I thought Ebay had curtailed the sale of some Nazi-related pieces but I could be wrong.
You can certainly get re-created Nazi uniforms both in Europe and in the US if you know where to look/who to contact. And they are sold for a variety of reasons.
You can certainly get re-created Nazi uniforms both in Europe and in the US if you know where to look/who to contact. And they are sold for a variety of reasons.
#6
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Well maybe because i haven't gone to any such things in US and i would not have been so surprised - the selling of Nazi relics didn't surprise me much but the strolling around in Nazi Swastika'd uniforms did - and i'm not judging the wrongness or correctness but just my surprise.
#7
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Bob - we won remember. We're not scared ofthe Germans. It's just a bit of fun. We do all sorts of battle re-enactments.
These people are probably the best known of the re-enactment societies:
http://www.thesealedknot.org.uk/
I know a bloke who goes in for viking re-enactments, but that's basically because he's a bit of a psycho and it's legalised fighting.
These people are probably the best known of the re-enactment societies:
http://www.thesealedknot.org.uk/
I know a bloke who goes in for viking re-enactments, but that's basically because he's a bit of a psycho and it's legalised fighting.
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#8
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It's actually extremely unusual for a normal WWII recreation group to accept 'Nazi' participants. In fact, I don't know of any groups that accept them.
Most groups I know of do permit the recreation of regular German forces, but definitely not SS members/wearing of swastikas/Nazi salutes, for pretty obvious reasons.
This sounds like a memorabilia trading fair, that has a rather dubious target market, rather than an actual WWII recreation or a recreators trading fair.
Most groups I know of do permit the recreation of regular German forces, but definitely not SS members/wearing of swastikas/Nazi salutes, for pretty obvious reasons.
This sounds like a memorabilia trading fair, that has a rather dubious target market, rather than an actual WWII recreation or a recreators trading fair.
#11
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Just to show you some typical 'rules' for WWII recreators - taken from the website of one of the UK major historical event organisors:
"...we must all be aware that certain historical impressions must be carried out with extreme sensitivity and may not be advisable or welcome at some events, eg if the latter are not primarily re-enactor-orientated (such as some vehicle or railway events).
We invite selected WWII German re-enactors to appropriate events, either WWII-specific or multi-periods, if they fit in with the specific theme(s) and are agreeable to our clients. The latter naturally have the final say if there is a difference of opinion, although in most cases this does not arise as clients generally trust our experience and judgement. Political correctness plays absolutely no part in our policy making, nor ever will, but we try to ensure that we reflect generally accepted levels of taste in all we do.
Specific portrayals - and not just German - are however, unlikely to be acceptable. It is a simple fact that however sensitive they may be in face to face contact with the public, the mere sight of SS or Hitler Youth re-enactors and/or Nazi salutes do offend many visitors - ie the very people our participants are contracted to perform for. Unless specifically requested by clients, we don't permit SS or Hitler Youth re-enactors, nor in the case of "open" events, allow anyone to participate if so dressed. Nor do we allow the Nazi salute. Similarly, it is unlikely that we will invite groups offering WWII Japanese military impressions, or anyone re-enacting very recent conflicts (other than British forces) unless a specific need has been identified in advance.
If certain WWII impressions, eg Wehrmacht and Soviet military, are invited to specific events, they must be sensitive and entirely non-political in their approach to visitors, openly accept (if the subject rises) that "their" forces were not "squeaky clean" and that they inflicted grievous suffering on innocent civilians in WWII.
"...we must all be aware that certain historical impressions must be carried out with extreme sensitivity and may not be advisable or welcome at some events, eg if the latter are not primarily re-enactor-orientated (such as some vehicle or railway events).
We invite selected WWII German re-enactors to appropriate events, either WWII-specific or multi-periods, if they fit in with the specific theme(s) and are agreeable to our clients. The latter naturally have the final say if there is a difference of opinion, although in most cases this does not arise as clients generally trust our experience and judgement. Political correctness plays absolutely no part in our policy making, nor ever will, but we try to ensure that we reflect generally accepted levels of taste in all we do.
Specific portrayals - and not just German - are however, unlikely to be acceptable. It is a simple fact that however sensitive they may be in face to face contact with the public, the mere sight of SS or Hitler Youth re-enactors and/or Nazi salutes do offend many visitors - ie the very people our participants are contracted to perform for. Unless specifically requested by clients, we don't permit SS or Hitler Youth re-enactors, nor in the case of "open" events, allow anyone to participate if so dressed. Nor do we allow the Nazi salute. Similarly, it is unlikely that we will invite groups offering WWII Japanese military impressions, or anyone re-enacting very recent conflicts (other than British forces) unless a specific need has been identified in advance.
If certain WWII impressions, eg Wehrmacht and Soviet military, are invited to specific events, they must be sensitive and entirely non-political in their approach to visitors, openly accept (if the subject rises) that "their" forces were not "squeaky clean" and that they inflicted grievous suffering on innocent civilians in WWII.
#12



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I guess there are uniforms and people who want to be in an "incrowd" and they will chose to own their own stuff, for instance go to Whitby and see the Goths.
Then there are racists and holocaust rejectors. In many European countries it is illegal to deny the holocaust and people get locked up for it. This is not the case in UK but most people would be very concerned to associate with those who do (or in fact most others loonies)
Once you get beyond the general public we are suffering form the cult of celebrety and unfortuanlty Harry is one (by birth lucky chap) so if he looks like a loony he gets pelted by the media
Then there are racists and holocaust rejectors. In many European countries it is illegal to deny the holocaust and people get locked up for it. This is not the case in UK but most people would be very concerned to associate with those who do (or in fact most others loonies)
Once you get beyond the general public we are suffering form the cult of celebrety and unfortuanlty Harry is one (by birth lucky chap) so if he looks like a loony he gets pelted by the media
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SWillams
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Feb 14th, 2004 10:01 AM



