that may be because the UK is such a secular country - with about the most un-believers in anything of any country anywhere if stats I've seen are right - I am shocked that on Coronation Street so many characters say they are non-religious - never see that on popular US shows

I believe one of the contenders for PM with May was an atheist - an atheist could not be elected dog collector in the U.S.

So Christmas like religion is treat in UK as something not religious.

Many here do too but many take it seriously.

Do those Merry Christmas cards send my say Hindus or Moslems have pictures of Jesus as a baby or angels on them? Or just snow and tree and Merry Christmas?

We are a much more religious country (which I of course deplore) than the UK and some take things more seriously in that regard.

I'd rather have the UK stance on it and have Merry Christmas have no real meaning other than the time of year (and again many here think that but not all)- bah humbug anyway!

I'd say that very few Christmas cards have religious themes. It's more likely to be a robin or a jolly coaching scene

I do tend to pick and choose what to send to different people. Some get the secular pictures of trees or baubles or winter scenes, some people get the more overtly churchy ones, depending on their interests.

We have a house rule that our family Xmas cards (business and political cards have a different code) feature Nativity-related images from churches, art galleries or manuscripts that are either in the neighbourhood or that we've recently visited.

Yet over 80% of arriving cards have secular themes.

I agree with Ann regarding the trousers.

The cards I send depends somewhat on what I have photographed during the year. Occasionally the card is of a church, or a beautiful stained glass window, but normally it is definitely secular, since I a one of the non believers. They do wish people a merry Christmas and a happy new year though.

Was it Birmingham that tried to introduce Winterval to the UK? What an abomination.

The Dutch tend to say Fijne Feestdagen (Happy Holidays) as it covers Christmas and New year, not because saying Fijne Kerstdagen might offend someone. The hajib wearing girls at our supermarket, and the Turkish supermarket and baker all wish people fijne Kerstdagen, on the grounds that they will probably see you again before New year.

Of course Christians took over existing "Pagan" feasts such as Saturnalia and Yule so my Christmas is just a mix of festivals under another name.

not because saying Fijne Kerstdagen might offend someone>

That black Moor - Black Peter dude helping Father Christmas which I understand is now not PC (politically correct) offend anyone -is it still on cards and in parades as I saw once in Sinter Klaus processions in Amsterdam and Utrecht? curious

https://www.google.com/search?q=blac...HVXfB3cQsAQIHA

Yet over 80% of arriving cards have secular themes.>

I try to send a real Christmas card with Mary or Jesus or manger scene, etc to my relatives who I know are very religious

to others never

yet I'd say most of the cards we get are with religious images. Less though - I prefer a pretty snow trees, etc card to the same old religious images.

I do enjoy going to right wing "news" sites, and picking a random message thread, wish everyone happy holidays. Too easy really but fun just the same.

<i>Was it Birmingham that tried to introduce Winterval to the UK? What an abomination.</i>

Are there still people who believe this BS, even the Heil has gave up on it, it was a marketing idea nothing to do with replacing Christmas.

"Quite simply, as head of events at that time, we needed a vehicle which could cover the marketing of a whole season of events... Diwali (the Festival of Lights), Christmas Lights switch-on, BBC Children in Need, Aston Hall by Candlelight, Chinese New Year, New Year's Eve, etc. Also, a season that included theatre shows, an open-air ice-rink, the Frankfurt Open-air Christmas Market and the Christmas seasonal retail offer. Christmas—called Christmas!—and its celebration lay at the heart of Winterval."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winterval

<i>Yet over 80% of arriving cards have secular themes.</i>

The first commercially produced Christmas Card was secular, religious cards have always been in the minority

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christ...istmascard.jpg

I do enjoy going to right wing "news" sites, and picking a random message thread, wish everyone happy holidays. Too easy really but fun just the same.>>

I do approve of that.

Christmas Crackers?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas_cracker

seems to be non-secular? More of a party atmosphere than solemn occasion? I like it.

Kind of like Santa Claus - nothing religious now about him.

Tis the season to be greedy!

don't you have crackers in the US, Pal?

No -never heard of them until watching Corrie! And nothing like them TMK.

Maybe in Canada?

My impression is that crackers were a Victorian invention, and wiki agrees with me.

[I've never heard them called "bonbons" though!]

You guys do understand how wiki works don't you? It is all made up by a series of editors like you and me, so all it needs is a bunch of crazies to start working on it and you get nonsense.

Remember the old Murdoch entry that seemed to suggest the man was a multi-married, multi-born-again-Christian who made a muck of most of his business deals with daddy's fortune rather than the most honest, wonderful, humble god-fearing self-created-man that he is...

(Ed, surely something getting confused here)

so are you saying that crackers aren't Victorian then, bilbo?

just remember your sources, wiki is a wonderful resource, but, it isn't a source of information, it is a sink hole and it depends on who did the shoveling ;-)

so are you saying that crackers aren't Victorian then, bilbo?>

We say happy Xmas and have Xmas crackers in Australia as in UK. Even the Muslims at the local stores say happy Christmas . When I get a card a that says happy holidays I know it's from my US friends.