janisj

Jean: Yes the £ is high (not the highest ever by a long shot BTW). However the € hit its ALL TIME high against the dollar. So neither the UK nor Italy would be a great "bargain". But we can help BPJones economise and do a really nice trip w/o breaking the bank.

ElendilPickle

My husband and I spent two weeks in England and Wales in May. We stayed in YHA hostels almost every night, and were very happy with most of them. The one in London wasn't so great, but it wasn't a YHA property.

Most YHA hostels have private rooms, and some also include breakfast in the room price (or offer it for a small extra fee). They can be a fun way to meet other travelers as well. Take a look at http://yha.org.uk for more information.

If you'd like to see pictures from our trip, they are at http://picasaweb.google.com/elendilp...utTheUKMay2007
Also, if you click on my name in this forum, you should be able to find our trip report.

Lee Ann

janisj

I agree hostels are good (and in places like Scotland they are often VERY good).

But in BP's situation (mother and 12 yo son), I personally think traditional B&Bs would be better. There are lots of really nice B&Bs all over Scotland for less than £25 per person - even some less than £20.

BPJones

Any suggestions for specific B&B's in Scotland or England (near London) and/or places in between?
Also, is a Britrail pass the way for us to go? It is 499.00 for 15 consecutive days (I don't need it for that many, but I think we will use it for more than an 8 day span, which is the next smallest). The site says that one child pass is free with an adult pass purchase, so this 499.00 would cover all of the rail trips for both of us. Is that a good deal? And how do "sleepers" work? I think we may stop over in one direction to Scotland, but we may just take an overnight train back. Does a railpass cover this - with a supplement added to get a sleeper? How far in advance would a sleeper need to be booked? Or would it be better to fly back to the states from Scotland? If we did this, is the railpass still a value?
And how about those tube/bus passes/oyster cards? Worth the $?
Thanks again to everyone!

janisj

You probably don't want a B&B "near" London - you will want a hotel or apartment right in the middle of things. As I said - Priceline will get you a nice hotel for less than a B&B out in the suburbs and save you tons of commute time/money. Check out biddingfortravel.com for PL pointers.

Re B&Bs in Scotland - it is a HUGE place and until we get you sorted out in some sort of itinerary it is really difficult to give usefull recommendations.

An Oyster card is just the way bus and tube tickets are stored in London. Sort of like a Dept. store gift card - you load an amount on it and each journey is automatically deducted when you ride. It is the very best way to carry your transport tickets. Not a "worth it" issue - it is just the way London Transport sells their tickets.

Whether any rail pass makes sense again depends on your itinerary. For instance you might fly up to Scotland on a budget airline and take the train back.

caroline_edinburgh

A nice and central B&B in Edinburgh is about £50 per person, so not cheap. If you don't mind staying further out and/or in a less nice area, you'll pay less. But for Edinburgh specifically, I'd recommend the newish Edinburgh Central hostel - http://www.edinburghcentral.org/. It's been open less than a year, is very central and apparently all the rooms, from single to 8-bedders, have en suite bathrooms.

B&Bs are probably better value in the country.

Janis is correct that you don't need - or in fact want - a car in Edinburgh.

janisj

Just to clarify, my £25 pp rate for B&Bs was not for Edinburgh (or really in any major city). Accomodations are more expensive Edinburgh - nearly as high as London. But everywhere out in the countryside - it is easy to find really nice places for about 1/2 of Edinburgh prices. Another reason to rent a car for part of the trip - get off the beaten path.

The hostel caroline mentions has had other good reports on here.

Julie_Hurst

BPJones, re: "I am a little afriad I might mess up somehow."

I know how you feel. Every since my trip planning to Grand Canyon & Sedona. I took us to Grand Canyon for checkin & that was the day we were supposed to be in Sedona! Funny, the Grand Canyon hotel booked us in & gave us our room key. As my husband was showing & I was "reclining" on the bed in my undies, a man walked in! He was the true "owner" of the room & the front desk gave him a key also! Just so happened that our last names were the same. Of course, a travel planning mistake could "hurt" a little more if we had been in Europe & were hastily trying to make it from city to city!

Re: group tours - I wouldn't do an extensive group tour with a child. Those tours begin very early (sometimes 6am) & end late (10pm); plus many hours on a bus. There are leisure tours that just transport you from hotel to hotel & have someone available for assistance, but you are on your own during the day. Could be a consideration if you want the planning done for you - but checkout the hotels carefully - some are not the greatest & not close to the sites.

Personally, I find the best way to begin planning a trip is to buy a good guidebook, select my sites/cities to see, checkout the airfare for best price dates (kayak.com, cheapoair.com, airline sites; and consider flying in one city & out the other to save backtracking), then hit this forum, ricksteves.com, tripadvisor.com, venere.com, slowtrav.com, slowtalk.com.

I also start with a worksheet for each day & as I plan, fill it in with transportation, hotel, siteseeing, costs. That lets me know how the trip is flowing & what my options are.

Here is my possible messup - My husband always reminds me to make the first hotel nite for the day AFTER we leave home. I know that fact, but when planning, I follow that dates without entering that skip forward!

Have fun. I think the planning is a big part of the fun! Julie

Julie_Hurst

That is so, so funny! My husband was not "showing" (as in flasher! ). He was showering!

Julie

NeoPatrick

Cost is a factor, you say?

Just as a personal reference we spent 10 nights in London this summer, and 14 nights in Italy (half in Rome and half in Venice.

Our average cost per day for the two of us:

In London -- $583.02 (US$)

In Italy -- $371 (US$)

Of course you can spend less either place if you try -- and outside of London you are likely to spend less than in London particularly on lodging. But we always spend much less in Italy than in the UK, and that would even be after ignoring our theatre costs n London.

BPJones

NeoPatrick-
After having your experiences, if you could have only done one of those trips (London or Italy) which one would you choose?

evecolorado

Jumping in ahead of NeoPatrick -- having done both myself, and the UK (not Italy) with my two children at about the same age as your son, I'd go for UK. Got to dash off to the dentist right now. Will be back later.

NeoPatrick

Well, we tend to do both -- every year. But I think I'd go into greater withdrawal not doing London than not doing Italy.

That said, in all honesty for what you describe, I think UK is the place for you. York is wonderful and historic, and you can choose from a number of castles scattered around. Are you willing to drive?

janisj

BPJones: Not speaking for NeoPatrick of course - But his criteria might be a lot different than yours. He travels to Europe very frequently and mainly enjoys the theatre (like attending 1 or 2 plays most days) and trying lots of new and old favorite restaurants. He knows a LOT about both countries - but its been a looooong time since he was a 12 yo boy

I haven't been around many 12 yo boys for a long time either. I've only been to Italy a few times, but lived in the UK for 5 years and go back there at least once a year.

Italy is amazing - but for a 12 yo interested castles, history, scenery etc - Scotland would be my choice 9 times out of 10. And if you want to see something Roman - you could always add on an excursiom to Hadrian's Wall. Now that IS amazing.

janisj

was postimg the same time as Patrick - and we agree

audere_est_facere

If you want castles you want to go to wales - they are the best by miles. It is also true that Wales is a good deal cheaper than london (and most parts of the UK for that matter)

http://www.castlewales.com/home.html#Please%20Select

specs

I will address the question in a moment. First, a brief word to Elenilpickle:

I looked at your photos and sensed a kindred spirit. My pictures of the Temple of Apollo at Stourhead are labeled, "The place where Mr. Darcy first proposes to Miss Bennett" and of course Lacock is Meryton.

This summer's trip took us to Claydon House, Basildon Park, and Stourhead which were all used as movie locales. If I can find the time to write my trip report, I'll tell more.

I have to get to Chatsworth now that I've seen your pics of the sculpture gallery. I also want to go to Lyme Park where Colin Firth had "The Pond Scene". Be still my heart.

Picture 35 also made me smile as the blue door was the way to my classroom.

Sorry to get off topic. In answer to the original question. We've made the trip to the England and Italy with teens. The kids loved both places, but felt there was more to do in England. There were more opportunities to "do" things as opposed to just "looking" at things. They loved the food in Italy, but grew restless with the pace of dining. Leisurely meals and sitting in cafes were not #1 on their list.

I think you will have a better time if you decide to travel on your own. Your son is 12, you'll be surprised at how quickly he figures out local transportation and adapts to travel abroad.He will probably be a big help to you. We have done the city bus tours where you can get off and on at any time. A group tour in May will probably consist of retirees. Pretty boring for a 12 year old. The experiences you and your son will have travelling together will make for wonderful memories. And the time alone with your son is priceless.

evecolorado

specs has said it perfectly--"There were more opportunities to 'do' things as opposed to just 'looking' at things" in the UK.

NeoPatrick

Watch it janis! It hasn't been THAT many years since I was a 12 year old -- in fact not even quite half a century ago! But in all honesty there is a lot of 12 year old in me still. I love nothing better than clamoring around old castles; I get a huge kick out of the Tower of London; and even with the theatre I prefer Spamalot to the opera.
>>>>>>>>>>>>&g t;>>>>>>>>>>>.

"specs has said it perfectly--"There were more opportunities to 'do' things as opposed to just 'looking' at things" in the UK."

Yes, that is a very interesting and very accurate way to put it in my opinion.

mama_mia

Hello,
We visited the UK this year with our sons (who are a bit older); two years ago we did Italy.

Our UK itinerary was 2 days Edinburgh, 5 days London, 3 days North Wales, and the 2 days Lake District. We stayed in B&Bs because it is hard to find a hotel for 4. Did not use apartments because of our shorter stays. But I do recommend apartments for families--I think kids are more comfortable with the extra space.

Our Italy itinerary was 2 days Venice, one week at a farmhouse in Tuscany and 5 days Rome (apartment).

What we liked on UK trip and which might be good for a 12 yr old, if I can project back.
Edinburgh: climbing up Arthur's Seat, an extinct volcano; touring the castle and seeing the crown jewels
London: British Museum (free, tons to see), Thames cruise to Greenwich, Tower of London (for both of these, you should be able to find half price coupons), a tour with the Original London Walks (we did the Beatles Magical Mystery Tour, but there are others that might appeal more); theatre (we saw Spamalot, but other options might be available come June, some at reduced price thru the theatre kiosks)
Wales: Loved Wales. We stayed in Conwy, where you can walk the town walls and climb all over the (slightly) ruined castle. Also toured Carnaervon Castle. Both took half a day, there was that much climbing and looking around. You can, I believe, get to Conwy by train from London and then get around some of the North Wales attractions by train or bus. There are some small railroads that take you up into the hills. We took a train up to Mt. Snowdon (almost to the top--the upper station was undergoing repairs) and hiked down. There are mine tours and a tour of an underground electric power station that might interest a 12 yr old. We did not do the mine or the electric station, nor did we get to the other two nearby castles--Beaumaris and Harlech,
Lake District: Great walking

Italy
Venice: St.Marks Square, gondola ride, Doge's Secret Itinerary Tour (tip: If you can find a "secret tour" you will appeal to a 12 yr old)
Tuscany: We used a farm outside of San Gimignano as a base. They had an awesome pool, which was great to come back to after a hot day of sightseeing. There were other families there, and our sons had a chance to talk with some of the other teens staying there. It so happened that there was a medieval/Renaissance faire going on in San Gimignano, which our sons enjoyed--lots of pageantry, archery, etc.
Took day trips to Florence, Pisa, Siena, and Volterra.
Rome: stayed in an apartment in Rome. Colosseum, Castel St. Angelo, Vatican Museum and St. Peters (with the Scavi tour), Forum, Campo di Fiori (market in the mornings, very entertaining), Piazza Navona (great people watching); Pantheon (just amazing)

After our visit to UK, we all agreed that we liked Italy a little better. I will try to list the reasons, so you can judge the merit of our conclusions.

1. We had 2 weeks of sunshine in Italy; nearly two weeks of rain in UK. Although I knew there would be rain, I did not realize how much I equate a pleasant vacation with sunshine!)
2. The food in Italy was much better. We don't research our restaurants much in advance like some Fodorites. I think you are more likely to find a good restaurant in Italy by chance than in UK. But the bad exchange rate may have raised my food expectations.
3. A lot of the attractions we went to in Italy are so well known (even to a 12 yr old, I would think) that it is exciting to be able to see them: The Colosseum, David, St. Peter's.
4. Gelato
5. I had learned a few helpful phrases and my sons got a kick out of speaking a few necessary words. I think the fact that it was a different language made it more interesting (exotic?)
6. We moved around a bit more on our England trip to get more in--I do think that took away from our enjoyment.
6. Finally, I think Italy was the right time, right place for our family. But England might be the right time, right place trip for you and your son. I do not think you will go wrong either way but will instead hook your son on travel so that you can plan a second trip to whichever place you miss this time!