UK in July -- early planning stages

Old Jan 18th, 2017, 01:27 PM
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Indy dad, I am so glad you are back on the Europe forum. I have often wondered how your family was doing back in the US. Is DD off to college in the fall?

Back to Scotland question.

The borders are wonderful! Jedburgh was my favorite of the abbeys.

Mull is one of my favorite spots in Scotland. I was lucky to spend time there with two nephews (then 14 and 11) nearly twenty years ago. We took the short ferry ride to Iona and spent a day hiking and visiting the abbey where many of Scotland's early kings are buried. We also took a little boat trip out to Staffa Island where we hiked down to the end to watch the puffins (it was early July). I felt as if I were on top of the world as the sides of the island did not ease gently down to the sea but were steep cliffs. It still remains a magical day in my memory.
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Old Jan 18th, 2017, 04:30 PM
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Aw, thanks for the kind words annhig, irishface, MaineGG and ChgoGal.

BTW, I started a new blog for our post ex-pat travels if you want to see how the kids have changed since we moved back:

https://freytravel.wordpress.com/

You guys can't go talking up Mull and Iona as I had started to hone in on the Borders and D&G! As always, too many places to visit.

My friends are looking into Yorkshire. I wouldn't mind a split between the Dales and the Moors. I am one day short to have 3 nights in the Dales, Moors, Scottish Borders and Dumfries and Galloway. Where should I slice a day? D&G?
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Old Jan 18th, 2017, 06:32 PM
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Just close your eyes when you see Mull (or any other regions mentioned) otherwise you will go crazy w/ the possibilities.

(I love LOVE Mull BTW -- Fingal's Cave on Staffa is amazing as are the beaches on Mull and Iona)

Mull is not 'better' then D&G/the Borders -- just one of many gorgeous parts of Scotland. So focus in on the places already on your list.

>>I am one day short to have 3 nights in the Dales, Moors, Scottish Borders and Dumfries and Galloway. Where should I slice a day? D&G?each of those regions? If so I'd maybe (reluctantly) cut one night from the Moors. I wouldn't cut the Dales or Borders for sure.
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Old Jan 19th, 2017, 01:56 AM
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We spent a very wet holiday in the Borders. After the only place we could find for Sunday lunch was a very bad Chinese in Dumfries we decamped and headed back to the Lake District.

I would cut a night from the Borders if that was one of the choices.
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Old Jan 19th, 2017, 02:58 AM
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Yes, I essentially have 11 days/nights for the 4 areas: Dales, Moors, Borders and D&G. So one area will only get 2. (This is in addition to the 3 days we have in Derby on the front end).

There are other dynamics in play as it hasn't been decided if our friends will join us in Scotland or just Yorkshire. If they don't, then I'd want 6 days in Yorkshire and 5 in Scotland to maximize our visit.

The plan to march north and fly EDI/LHR on departure day is probably the most logical though at some expense.

At any rate, I'm sure we can work out a reasonable solution and I'd be happy with most any combination. Maybe I'll start looking at accommodations to see if that dictates anything.
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Old Jan 19th, 2017, 10:11 AM
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I would cut a night from the Borders if that was one of the choices.>

Yes 2 days would be enough IME for the Borders Abbeys area. Major sights are centered around Melrose.
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Old Jan 19th, 2017, 01:05 PM
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>>Major sights are centered around Melrose.St Abbs Head, Floors, Mellerstain, Smailholm Tower, Traquair House, Abbotsford, Tantallon Castle, Dirleton castle, Preston Mill/Phantassie doocot, Euemouth, and a TON more.

(bold are the absolute 'musts' IMO)

Even 3 nights would be cutting things a little short.
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Old Jan 19th, 2017, 05:47 PM
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So, janisj, what's your equivalent list for D&G?
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Old Jan 19th, 2017, 06:13 PM
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Sweetheart Abbey - not a 'must' but still really interesting and you'll likely be staying relatively nearby),

Threave Castle/gardens and the Osprey Centre - an absolute must.

Caerlaverock Castle

Whithorn Priory

Drumlanrig Castle

Maybe on your drive between Dumfries and the Borders a hike up the Grey Mare's Tail waterfall

There are several nature preserves.


If you head up a bit into Ayrshire . . . Crossraguel Abbey, Culzean, some Robert Burns sites.

For something completely different . . . John Paul Jones house -- very strange. A teensy not much more than a cabin run on a shoe string but sort of like the weird tourist attractions along Route 66. Just unexpected.

https://www.visitscotland.com/info/s...centre-p251411 (Not Culzean Castle for sure - don't worry if you miss it)
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Old Jan 20th, 2017, 02:08 AM
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Appreciate the list / time.

No Broughton House? I had jotted that down from a comment upthread.

Culzean Castle seems to be quite a bit further out. Save for another time, particularly if it looks like we just have 2 nights in the area?

What about staying in Castle Douglas vs your earlier list (Dumfries/Carsthorne/New Abbey/Rockcliffe)?

We will have to guard against abbey/castle/stately home overload. Definitely need to find some good walks (and I had come across Grey Mare in my research).
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Old Jan 20th, 2017, 02:32 AM
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Don't miss the delightful ruined Threave castle on an island in the middle of the river and reached by boat.
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Old Jan 20th, 2017, 03:58 AM
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Thanks ESW -- it's great to get multiple opinions!
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Old Jan 20th, 2017, 05:34 AM
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I'm coming to this thread late and while I think you'll have a great time with your choices I had a couple of thoughts on timing and routes.

I really like Dumfries and Galloway, especially the (IMO) under-visited Kirkcudbrightshire, and I'm please to see people going there. The town of Kirkcudbright (incidentally, "kir-koo-bree") is one of the prettiest towns in the whole country, and the landscape is fantastic in a low-key way. It's a very snug and rather concealed part of Scotland; most people only experience it while they're rushing to the Ulster ferry from Stranraer.

I wonder if the order of things might be examined. If you're coming from Yorkshire and the Borders, what about saving the southwest of Scotland to the end, then flying from Glasgow back to London? That way you could follow the Ayrshire coast up to Glasgow and not have to trek back across the country en route.

Second, don't underestimate the popularity of the Borders at that time. The area can get pretty full of humans, and the big sites attract big crowds. And the roads, for the most part, aren't designed for high speeds; congestion happens.

We will have to guard against abbey/castle/stately home overload...

Roger that, and in fact to me it's one of the drawbacks of the Borders in the summer. There are many thousands of people who relish in seeing one historic pile of stones after another, ad nauseum, and the Borders is heaven to them. By contrast, in the Highlands, even though the roads are often narrow and there aren't that many of them, one can get off the grid, so to speak, without much effort. Drive down Glen Etive (near Glen Coe) and pretty quickly it's just you and the sheep.

Like janisj says, once you start second-guessing a Scottish itinerary you're doomed; it's a Vegas buffet but you can only eat so many shrimp in one sitting.

So I won't suggest a two-day transit of the Borders, a day of touring Kirkcudbrightshire followed by a sprint to Argyll and Mull, ending in Glasgow, in lieu of your other plans. Suggesting that would be wrong.

Oh wait.
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Old Jan 20th, 2017, 07:11 AM
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hi indy good to see you back. You might look at Orkney, different folks from those in the western isles, less god-fearing more viking. Orkney has some amazing pre-Jesus sites some as old as the Pyramids, while the southern incomers tend towards high skill artists. There are appartments to rent which keep the costs under control.
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Old Jan 20th, 2017, 07:54 AM
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Thanks Gardyloo -- it is good to discuss options even if they make my life harder in the short term! In particular the note about the Borders in July is helpful.

If I recall, your driving itineraries are a touch on the sporty side compared to what some might suggest. That said, I will give it some consideration. Accommodations don't seem to be in short supply at the moment so I do have time to ponder some of the options.

bilboburger -- I think I'll save Orkney for a future trip!
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Old Jan 20th, 2017, 10:23 AM
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Re crowds in the Borders -- if you avoid Mellerstain (and that is mostly because of the limited hours) , and Abbotsford it won't be bad. There will be people but not masses most places. Especially if you work it so you are in the Borders on weekdays. British schools let out the last half of July so family holidays won't have started yet.
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Old Jan 20th, 2017, 12:21 PM
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a note re school holidays - Scottish schools break up at the end of June, English schools a month later
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Old Jan 20th, 2017, 12:53 PM
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Yes -- I meant the English (not 'British') school term. But as a % not all that many Scottish families holiday in Scotland.
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Old Jan 20th, 2017, 12:54 PM
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Also should have probably mentioned than now there is rail service into the Borders there will be more day trippers than in the past.
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Old Jan 20th, 2017, 02:24 PM
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So, Gardyloo, you've pumped up Kirkcudbright while (whilst) also suggesting that I dash through and head up to the Highlands. I don't think I want to tackle that much driving time but I'm more than willing to consider shifting some time to D&G vs the Borders for my allotted 5 nights. What about staying in Kirkcudbright for a little longer?

Love your "historic pile of stones" comment, btw. I imagine we might feel that way after this trip!

We will definitely want to intersperse some walks into this. Janis has mentioned St. Abbs and Grey Mare. Any other "can't miss" walks in D&G, particularly from a Kirkcudbright base?

Truly enjoying the discussion. Thanks everyone.
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