neckervd

"So I can't tell if your BTW comment on your original post was sarcastic or serious".

I just tried to link the places you mentioned in your first post along a more attractive itinerary: more scenic, less slalom and less backtracking. No sarcasm at all!

Deb15July

Thanks neckervd, my first impression was sarcasm (since some posters had some less than helpful comments), but then I read it more closely and decided you were just giving a more attractive route...as you now verified.

The funny thing is when you lay it out like you did, stringing the sites/routes together, it does look like an AWFUL LOT!!! LOL

I will be posting some thoughts and questions soon to attempt to trim the stops a little.

mokka4

Chinacat: LOVED BERN! Spent 8 nights there this past October to get to know it even better! Check out my TR if inclined.

wrenwood

One of the most valuable things I have learned from these Forums is never to plan too much. Assume you will go back again. We first went to Switzerland in 2007. We have been 3 times since, and will go back again this year, and hopefully next year.

I agree with the others that you have too many places for only 2 weeks. For a 2 week time period we usually plan 3 "bases" at the most.

We liked Zermatt, didn't see the Matterhorn in it's full glory until day 3...........Don't go just to see it, if you want to go up to Gornergrat or the Matterhorn Glacial Paradise those are well worth the time. The village also has it charm in the English Church and some very old buildings.

If this is your first trip to Switzerland I do think the Bernese Oberland has the most to offer, including a day trip to the Interlaken area. Don't over-plan as you may have a rainy day, and part of the joy of the area is having the time (and the weather!) to take some of the cable cars and easy walks, enjoying a leisurely beverage at one of the mountain cafes as you soak it all in.

We also looked at flying into Zurich and out of Geneva, as you said there's not much difference in price. It didn't work out for us this coming trip, but you could fly into Zurich, and stay in Schauffhasen for 2 nights. The boat trip from Schaffhausen to Stein am Rhein is wonderful, and a great way to get over jet lag! Then head to the BO for 6 nights. If interested you can usually get an apartment if you stay for 6 nights, cuts WAY down on costs, and if you get one with a washer and dryer it's easier to pack light! From there I would probably stay near Gruyere/Fribourg for a few nights from which you can day-trip to Berne and Murten (or vice versa). When you leave that area you could head towards Chillon for an afternoon there, and stay somewhere close by to fly out of Geneva.

I'm not sure how all of this works by train but do try to slow down. Switzerland is just too beautiful to rush

PalenQ

If you do have the number of train trips and other rides described in OP the 14-consecutive-day Swiss Pass is IMO a no-brainer - covering practically everything that moves in Switzerland - trains, city trams and buses, lake boats and 50% off cables and trains just going to mountain tops as well as free entry to 470 Swiss museums and attractions - moving that much better than the Half-Fare Card or Swiss Card, etc all of which could save you money but the pass just lets you hop on any train or boat, etc anytime - I always end up using it more than I think - having had dozens of Swiss Passes over the years.

For lots of good stuffon Swiss trains, passes, etc I always spotlight these IMO fine sources - www.swsisstravelsystem.com; www.budgeteuropetravel.com; www.ricksteves.com.

The pass covers passage 100% to Wengen, Grindelwald, Lauterbrunnen, Murren, Gimmelwald and 50% off you Murren to Schilthorn cable - a thrilling cable called one of the longest in the Alps!

china_cat

mokka4, I did recently read your trip report and enjoyed it very much. I think yours was one of the ones that convinced me to try to squeeze in Bern.

kleeblatt

I live here and I still haven't seen everything. Most of my guests enjoy having at the most 3-4 bases and just doing day trips from there.

Here's a secret: the Swiss don't go travelling too much to see the other parts of Switzerland because each part is beautiful in its own right.

- See either Berner Oberland or Zermatt but don't do both.
- Walk around the towns and do some easy hiking in the mountains. You'll find it is much more pleasant to become aquainted with a few areas than just briefly seeing many areas.
- Don't stay on the trains too long. They get boring quickly.
- Skip Appenzell and St. Gallen. It's too much for the first day.
- In Lucerne, visit the different areas and or just walk around the city. If the weather is dismal, go to Zürich for a day trip.
- When in Lugano, walk to Gandria and take the boat back. It's lovely. Going to Ascona for a day is a bit of a pain in the neck. If you must see something different, considering going to Milan for a day from Lugano.
- Sit in a cafe/restaurant, order a coffee with schnapps and enjoy the scenery.

Don't overdo it. It will ruin your vacation.

Deb15July

OK...so I've tried really hard to rethink our itinerary and make some hard choices regarding locations. Let me give you some background on my thoughts at the beginning stages of planning.

- Hubby wanted to see the Alps and after initial research I decided Switzerland would be our destination (over Germany, Austria, etc)
- Number one area to visit was/is Berner Oberland
- Thought the Glacier Express would be a nice trip, but then read about the Bernina Express which sounded ever better
- Never heard of Lugano until I read about Bernina Express and it sounded like a good stop due to the proximity to Italy (Hubby has never been there)
- Planned two nights in Lucerne
- Was never sure about St. Moritz and Zermatt (mainly the Matterhorn) since they don't sound like they would be favorites, but felt like we HAD to visit them since we would be in Switzerland!

After gobs of research I started thinking about these other locations:

- Bern - due to rave reviews
- Montreux - Castle and Vevey
- Maybe Gruyeres
- Bettermalp - views of Aletsch Glacier

Wondering if we should drop:

- Zermatt - iffy weather could interfere with views of Matterhorn
- St. Moritz - although it sounds like several towns in that area might be worth visiting instead (problem is logistics since it is so far east)
- Lugano - save for a northern Italy trip, however, I'd really like to figure a way to ride the Bernina Express
- Appenzell area
- Glacier Express

So...with 13 nights, I have pretty much settled on at least the following:

4-5 nights Berner Oberland
3 nights Lucerne
2-3 nights Montreux
leaves 2-4 nights for another locale

Originally I wanted to end in Berner Oberland (when we thought we would fly round-trip to Zurich and spend night there before flight home), but we can make Montreux our last stop and fly out of Geneva. Also, the initial itinerary had us going more east to west (with BO toward the end), but since we plan to travel starting mid-September, I'm wondering if we should start with BO and cirlce towards the east and back up to Zurich for departure. Is the weather between mid and late September significantly different? I'm soooo confused.

Thoughts??? And thanks for all your help so far!!!

kleeblatt

No one can promise you good weather. Personally, I think late September is better than mid September in Switzerland.

For your two nights option:
- depending on your flight out, you might need one night in Geneva
- Add a night in Lucerne and do a day trip down to Lugano (it's 2.5 hours by train one way and a nice trip on top of it.)

Your itinerary has just been completed.

swandav2000

Hi again,

Well, I think I'd stop in Luzern first and have your 3 or 4 nights there. Then on to the Oberland area for 5 or 6 nights, then Montreux for 3 or 4 nights, then flying out of Geneva. This route follows the Golden Pass train route, and it's one I frequently suggest for first-time visitors to Switzerland as it covers so much: mountains, lakes, German, French, city, countryside.

I wouldn't add another destination but just add on the extra nights to the destinations you already have. There are plenty of day-trips and excursions and activities to enjoy in each one that you won't run out of things to do.

If you list the things you're interested in doing at each location, we can help you refine the list.

Have fun!

s

china_cat

Deb, it's funny because you and I started from the same place, had similar thinking, and your final itinerary resembles mine quite a bit. I found so much I wanted to do in the BO, I added my extra days there, with a base in Brienz. I really want to see the castles along Lake Thuns shores, and go to the Ballenburg village museum.

I think there is enough to do around Montreux to maybe add a day there. We will day trip to Gruyere from there, perhaps doing the chocolate train. I know the chocolate train is expensive and touristy, but it's also an awfully convenient way to string together Gruyeres and the chocolate factory in Broc. Maybe walk the vineyards, visit Chillon, take a lake cruise, ride the train up Rochers De Naye to see the views, and the alpine garden. Maybe we will day trip to Geneva...we are considering the tour of the supercollider. And, weather permitting, you could make the long day trip to Zermatt.

PalenQ

. I know the chocolate train is expensive and touristy, but it's also an awfully convenient way to string together Gruyeres and the chocolate factory in Broc>

If you have a Swiss Pass 2nd class yes you have to pay an upgrade on the official Chocolate Train to first class and also a supplement to everyone to cover the wine and cheese onboard - but there are regular trains over the same route you can with a pass just hop on - and from Montreux I enjoyed taking a lake boat over to Evian-les-Bains France - a swank thermal resort - with a Swiss Pass the whole thing is 100% covered even going to France.

One thing good about a pass - you can travel on a whim without worrying about cost and you are traveling around Switzerland enough to warrant a good look at a pass.

Masterphil

Exhausting but doable!

PalenQ

go to the Ballenburg village museum.>

One of the perks of a Swiss Pass - free entry to Ballenberg, about a $20-25 p.p. value I believe - the castle entries may also be covered - Oberhofen and Spiez are right on the lake near boat docks, Swiss Passes also covered the boats and postal bus Brienz to Ballenberg.

I would base in on place up in the hills from Interlaken and do Lake Brienz and Ballenberg as a nifty day trip from there - boat from Interlaken_ost train station - check out Geissenbach Falls - take the antique funicular up there and get off in Brienz, admire the wood cuttings on the wooden chalet-style ouses there and take the bus to Ballenberg - if you have time take a look at Meiringen and Reichbach Falls, scene where Sherlock Holmes and Dro Moriarity tangled to one of their presumed deaths!

neckervd

"Was never sure about St. Moritz and Zermatt (mainly the Matterhorn) since they don't sound like they would be favorites, but felt like we HAD to visit them since we would be in Switzerland!"

Engiadina Ota (St. Moritz area), Ticino (Lugano/Locarno/Ascona) and Zermatt ar favourites of Swiss and German people, whereas Americans usually prefer the Interlaken area.

St. Moritz - Glacier Express - Zermatt: very long ride through completely different alpine valleys (many foreigners don't even realize the differences however) with no glaciers or other high mountain scenery. The train runs most of the time at altitudes between 2500 and 5000 ft. There ARE gems along the Glacier Express itinerary (Vorab Glacier, Greina landscape, Schoellenen Gorge, Rhone Glacier, Oberaar Glacier, Gries Glacier, Aletsch Glacier, etc.), but they cannot be seen from the train window, they need stop overs and side trips.

The Southern itinerary via Bernina - Lugano - Centovalli is more various: from the glaciers of Bernina down to the subtropical climate of palm fringed Lake Como, Lake Lugano and Lake Maggiore, then again through the high mountains with stunning glacier panoramas (if you take the Simplon Pass Post bus) to Brig and Zermatt. But it involves 5 changes and cannot be done in one single day:
day 1: St. Moritz - Lugano/Locarno
day 2: enjoy Lugano/Locarno
day 3: Centovalli - Simplon Pass - Zermatt.

Deb15July

I'm really trying to heed the advice from several forums regarding my original itinerary. It is SOOOOO hard as there are numerous things at the top of my WANT list!

I'm considering the following new plan and would love comments...Thanks in advance!

We have 13 nights and can fly round trip to Zurich, but I'm looking at open jaw...into Zurich and out of Geneva due to the newer itinerary.

Arrive in Zurich in the morning after overnight non-stop flight. Fly out of Geneva in the early afternoon.

Train to Lucerne - 4 nights
Train to Lauterbrunnen - 5 nights
Train to Montreux - 4 nights

We would plan to do multiple day trips from these three bases, but the one thing that I'm having difficulty with is whether it's possible to fit in the Bernina Express. I just can't seem to figure out how to make it work. The alternative is William Tell, but not sure how to do that either without an overnight in the Ticino region.

neckervd...how would I need to tweak this to make your most recent suggestion regarding Lugano work? It seems I would want to take William Tell from Lucerne to Lugano and then the Centovalli route you suggest to Zermatt (and drop one or two nights from Lucerne and / or Montreux). This would eliminate time in the St. Moritz area. I really want to ride the Bernina Express though!

simpsonc510

I could barely catch my breath when I just now read your original plan!!! I think you've done a really fine job of trimming down your bases. The plan looks very good to me. I am someone who travels to Switzerland at least twice per year (I will be there once again in three weeks from now). I'm so glad you have opted for the extra time in Lucerne, which is one of my favorite cities anywhere. You say that you don't suffer from jetlag much, but Lucerne is a fabulous place to chill out and rest up a little bit for the rest of your busy vacation! Take time to stop and smell the roses. Stroll the lakeside promenade, take a boatride on the lake to one of the towns such as Brunnen, have a lakeside lunch and then a bit of walking around, and catch a later boatride back to Lucerne. Switzerland is delightful... slow down and enjoy it.

aliced

We did 11 nts in Switz last September w/ arrvl in Zurich and departure from Geneva: Did following nights: 2-Lucerne, 4-Interlaken, 2-Zermatt, 2-Montreux, 1-Geneva. Lots of good advice above so I'll be brief:

-your revised plan much better w/ fewer overnights
-Zermatt was our least favorite stop, it is very commercial
-Geneva easily accessed from Montreux (dont miss Vevey and Lausanne)
-Chocolate Train only runs few days/wk, so check first or skip it (as did we)
-love Rick Steves' mountain maps; only from those could we truly decipher what was where; he does not like Grindenwald but see it before Gimmelwald
-keep the lake rides and Bern for less-than-spectacular mountain days-- we had four perfect Alps days from Interlaken
-Transportation Museum in Lucerne was fabulous; skip others to see it
-15-day Swiss Pass worth every franc; from Wengen go up to Mannlichen for the Ridge Walk and down to Grindenwald
-eat in dept. stores cafeterias which are very good and can save you francs
Hope your weather was as good as ours -- it was very warm but we packed for all options in a carry-on.

neckervd

It doesn't make much sense to do the Bernina Express ride if you don't want to stay in the area through wich it passes.
Once again, the real gems are not along the rails, but a few miles away (stunning glaciers which can be reached by gondola, mountain lakes, scenic old town centers, etc.).

Lucerne is in the middle of Switzerland and Lauterbrunnen and Montreux are in the Western part. So forget to go to the easternmost area only for a train ride. You would sit all the day in trains and not see more than on the Bernina Express video:
http://www.rhb.ch/Video-Bernina-eng.782.0.html?&L=4
http://www.rhb.ch/UNESCO-Clip-eng.1061.0.html?&L=4

kleeblatt

If the weather is bad in Lucerne, you can always do a day trip down to Lugano. However if the weather is glorious, stay in Central Switzerland and go to the mountains.