CocoBeen

Hello All,

We - a group of five women ( age 40 ) - are hoping to get our first taste of Istanbul and other areas in Turkey this May. Though we're fine with long days & realize it's going to be a bit of a "sampler" trip, we don't want to be unrealistically ambitious & are hoping for comments along those lines.

After reading several other helpful threads, we've come up with the following thoughts.

Must visit: Istanbul ( 3 days ), Ephesus/Pamukkale, Cappadocia ( 2 days ).
Would like to visit : Konya, Kas (which seems to be the difficult one)
We're thinking of skipping ( but could be convinced otherwise ): Galliopoli, Troy, Ankara

We were planning on driving as much as possible. But are happy to take flights and trains to save time & be efficient. I have to do my car research yet, but hopefully, it's not unreasonable ( or prohibitively costly) to find an automatic vehicle for 5 people & luggage.

The last challenge is that we have to break up our Istanbul time. Some members of our group may arrive a day later, so the others must wait in Istanbul one day for them to arrive. And we'd like to get back to Istanbul one day prior to our international flight home.

Thanks to other posters & advice-givers for giving us food for thought. Looking forward to any guidance here as we decide where to go & how to go within 11 full days in Turkey.

otherchelebi

You seem to have put too much in your basket.

Why do you wish to go to Konya?

Gallipoli and Troy would mean two full days

Currently there are two or three people trying to put together shorter and longer itineraries with a great deal of writing back and forth at Fodors Turkey forums. You may wish to look there as well.

Your choice of locations does not say much about your interests or focus.

Consider flying to Cappadocia from istanbul, flying from istanbul to Antalya, driving from Antalya to Kas, driving from Kas to Pamukkale, driving from pamukkale to Ephesus and flying back to Istanbul from there.

Your logistics mean that this trip will have to be sandwiched in 2+2 days of istanbul which is barely enough for the city.

CocoBeen

Dear Otherchelebi - Thank you for your note. My apologies for disappearing for a long while - my office hijacked me! I have enjoyed reading your good advice to other posters, including those with the shorter itineraries that you've suggested.

Pardon my brevitiy in the earlier post. It might be easier to list what we as a group don't prefer versus what we enjoy doing. We don't need to spend much time shopping. We are interested in having a diverse experience, even at the risk of feeling slightly rushed -- we don't require a relaxed vacation pace. For example, we would like a nice mix of city, ruins, architecture, etc...

We enjoy history, architecture, museums, ruins, nice drives (only if time allows), local cuisine, & culture (whirling dervish show, baths, for example), and even look forward to unplanned unique/quirky/fun moments that one is sure to encounter in a foreign land. Collectively, we have traveled in major regions in Asia, Africa and Europe (including India, Egypt, Italy and Greece)

We are willing to fly, drive, or train (even overnight) to make the fullest use of our time. Bus might be ok (due to motion sickness issues).

We are interested in visiting Istanbul ( 3-4 days would be fine for us on this trip), Cappadocia, Pamukkale (and therefore Ephesus, since we're there).

To clarify - after having read the advice of some, we were leaning towards skipping Gallipoli and Troy in lieu of going to Kas (for the glass bottom boat/Lycean ruins). It feels a little odd to miss Troy, and, I guess, I was hoping for some reassurance.

We were thinking about Konya because one person in the group is an architect (though she's interested in Byzantine architecture now) who is also interested in Rumi. It was just an idea since we would be near the region, but not a must do at this point.

I'm pondering if it is worth the effort to fly down to Antalya & drive to Kas/Pamukkale/Ephesus since Kas is out of the way ? I've seen you verify that this driving route is scenic.

Somehow, on the first pass, I felt our 11 days in Turkey was right between the two categories of travelers-- those who had plenty of time & others who had ten days & understandably wanted a relaxed pace. But, I will re-read the other posts.

After speaking with my travelmates, I will post our draft itinerary, in case you are available for further comments.

I just wanted to respond before any more time passed & thank you for your comments & responsiveness!

CocoBeen

After finalizing our flights, we unfortunately have only ten full days (not 11) in Turkey. So, it seems like we must cut Kas out of our plans. ( Please correct me if I'm wrong! ) I'm searching for an interesting way to distribute two precious days in lieu of Kas.

Thanks to other posters' ideas, we developed this itinerary that we're excited about:
Day 0 - arrive Istanbul
Day 1 - Istanbul (rest of group arrives)
Day 2 - Fly to Izmir/Ephesus
Day 3 - Ephesus
Day 4 - Aphrodisias / Paumukkale
Day 5 - TBD
Day 6 - TBD. Then get to Cappadocia late in day
Day 7 - Cappadocia
Day 8 - Cappadocia
Day 9 - Istanbul
Day 10 - Istanbul
Day 11 - Depart Istanbul

If we cut out Kas, where we can we distribute those couple days? Is there anything comparable? We are willing to re-sequence most of the itinerary.

We are fine with the current 3 days / 4 nights in Istanbul on this trip. We would add 1 day to Istanbul but prefer not to add two days.

The lake region drive - thru Konya - to Cappadocia seems like the intuitive thing to do, but I'm not jazzed about it. I could be wrong. The caravanserais seem interesting enough.

We don't want to add more time to Cappadocia. ( We are not hiking on this trip, otherwise would consider adding a day.)

We have not been gravitating towards Ankara.

Any thoughts appreciated. Thanks!

zwho

I can only tell you what we did and it worked out great. We flew into Istanbul and spent 4 days there, and then flew to Ankara where we were picked up at the airport by a guide and spent the morning in Ankara before driving to Cappadocia for 2 days. From there we flew to Antalya and took a 4 day Gulet around the Med coast. Pure heavenly time. We left the Gulet in Kas and got a ride back to Antalyas airport, where we flew to Izmir for 2 days. We saw Ephesus and some small villages with ruins before flying back to the US from Izmir. This was 10 yrs. ago and you may have more direct routes flying now.

CocoBeen

zwho - thank you for sharing! It looks like a wonderful 12-day trip. Does that include arrival and departure dates to/from Turkey?

CocoBeen

We have rejiggered our itinerary to include all the destinations on our Must Do list: Istanbul, Cappadocia, Kas, Pamukkhale, Ephesus. Ephesus is our last priority. We might have skipped it altogether if it wasn't so close to Pamukkhale (which we have to see, though it's become quite touristy).

We'd appreciate any comments about logistical mis-calculations on the non-Istanbul portion & advice on driving/roads, so we can quickly reserve our intra-Turkey flights & automatic rental car. We know it moves at a faster clip than many would prefer. Will post separately regarding questions on the Istanbul portion. Thank you!

Caution: this is a city slicker sampler itinerary.

Traveling mid to late-May:
Day 0 - some arrive Istanbul late afternoon

Day 1 - Istanbul (awaiting others to arrive in evening)

Day 2 - Early morning flight IST to Kayseri. Cave hotel.

Day 3 - Cappadocia (morning hot air balloon), Cave hotel. Can't do extensive hikes because of injury in party. But will be able to do fair amount of walking.

Day 4 - Fly Kayseri to Izmir (need to figure out time of day. ie, depart later in case balloon ride doesn't happen on Day 3 due to weather? ). Rent SUV type car (to accommodate 4-5 people and luggage). Visit Ephesus. Overnight in Selcuk.

Day 5 - Drive Selcuk/Aphrodisias (2.5hrs). Drive Aphrodisias/ Pamukkhale (1-1.5hrs). Will search boards for good lunch & dinner place. Overnight Pamukkhale.

Day 6 - Drive Pamukkhale to Kas (3.5 - 4 hours). (Believe this is a scenic route? Believe it's best not to do in dark?) Overnight Kas.

Day 7 - Kas - Kekova glass bottom boat tour - (we may not be able to swim/snorkle due to low temps but believe that the tours will run anyway & we can see the ruins thru the glass boats ??)

Day 8 - Drive Kas to Myra (1hr). Drive Myra to Antalya (3hrs). Drop off car. Fly Antalya to Istanbul. (Not visiting Antalya due to anticipated traffic into town.) Overnight Istanbul.

Day 9 / 10 - Istanbul
Day 11 - depart Istanbul

Just a note: we made Kas our last spot for convenience of getting back to Istanbul from Antalya. We could not find a direct Kayseri/Antalya flight - even on Pegasus etc. Apparently, it's available in the summer, on certain days.

Thanks again for any thoughts.

zwho

There is a small town only accessible by water right by Kekova. I can't think of the name, but there is a fortress on the top of the hilly town and it was a wonderful afternoon just getting lunch and people watching go by in boats. Kas was a nice small town. I had a blouse made there by a tailor while I sat in his courtyard & drank tea. My DH bought a knock off Rolex, ha ha! I really liked Antalya and am sorry you can't stop there. Our trip was 2 weeks. 2 travel days & 12 tour days. I could have spent twice that much time. Best Vacation ever! I don't think anywhere you go will be disappointing. It's all exotic and fabulous. And even the lousy Air schedules will not matter when you sample the hospitality of Turkish Air short trips. I just went back for the 1st time in 10yrs. last Sept. and it's only better!

Michael

We drove from Izmir (Ephesus) to Cappadocia. You might want to take a look at my trip report; click on my name to find it.

CocoBeen

zwho - thanks for your note! You're getting me very excited about Kas and area.

Michael - thanks. In fact, I have read your report and am holding my breath about a couple of things - both car rental and transferring to/from SAW airport. Crossed fingers!

otherchelebi

Here are some comments :

- Looks fine
- The only SUVs available are usually Jeep Cherokees by AVIS and not very large and very expensive. Check for THY discounts at Avis and Ford Transit mini vans with other agencies also.
- Consider driving to Ucagiz from Kas and renting your private (hopefully glass bottom) boat from Ucagiz. keep your cool, do not feel obliged to accept the first boatman who rushes to greet you, check prices and quality of boats.
You can get a boat and some kayaks for which the sea will not be too cold (18-19 C or 65F or so) and you can have a picnic on the boat or eat at Kale town which is not an island but can only be reached by boat. When you get the boat privately for so many hours, you can direct it any which way you like, and stay in the area quite a bit longer than the two hours or so they would on the tour with the remaining time spent in getting to Kekova from Kas and back. If you have not yet read my trip report to the area, here's the link:
http://www.fodors.com/community/fodo...lykians.cfm?39

And the following link is to my wife's photo albums, including Kekova, Myra, etc. :
http://community.webshots.com/user/esercelebiler

- In May you will have a great deal of daylight so should not worry about driving in the dark. Sunset will be later than 8PM.

- usually, roadside restaurants can be very scenic and they will have tasty salads. be careful with meats unless it is chicken or beef because what you think as mutton may be goat which, although better tasting than mutton and not so smelly, may cause diarrhea to untrained digestive systems. We just came back from Gaziantep-Sanliurfa in Souteastern Turkey with an american friend and had forgotten about the goat issue. although Gaziantep serves real mutton apparently sanliurfa did serve goat and Ray was badly hit for three days. The local pharmacies can give a medicine called "Ercefuryl" without a prescription, which finally solved his problem. It is not an antibiotic and has no side effects.

- If you drive by the Kemer (en route towards Fethiye) route from Pamukkale to Kas, you will see a large number of brown signs showing roads leading to historic sites. those sites are all excellent nd worthy of your attention if you feel you have the time. the good thing is that the signs also have distances in kilometres and you can calculate how long it will take you to get there. Basically, Tlos, Pinara, Letoon are not very near but Xanthos and Patara are within easy reach and especially Patara should be visited.

- We prefer the route via Kemer to the mountain road via Elmali or the one West of Elmali and not only find it more scenic but enjoy the multitude of restaurants and cafes on the route and the wider road with fewer or better banked curves.

CocoBeen

otherchelebi - thank you very much for all the color!

I am familiar with your humor on other threads and expected the story about Ray to be a joke. Poor Ray - so terrible! I will make note of the medicine name with hopes we will never have need to look it up. As it turns out, all of us eat more goat than lamb for the reasons you mentioned - it's more tasty and tender, less gamey all around. I guess the salads at the roadside restaurants are safe to eat, though the lettuce leaves/tomatoes will be washed in water? Perhaps these are non-lettuce type salads.

Thanks for highlighting the road you took. I would prefer the Kemer route to the mountain road as well. Without stops, Pamukkhale to Kas is still 3.5 - 4 hours on this route?

And, I look forward to Pantara, which I've seen you encourage to others. I have not had a chance to focus on Kas preparation & will read your trip report soon for sure.

It's helpful to know that we can expect distances indicated on the road sign as we will be playing that drive to Kas somewhat by ear. We'll be on the move this trip but hope to see as much as we can. Hard to imagine that I'm traveling with someone who 15 years ago thought there was no point in going to Paris for less than ten days - ten days! Ironically, our whole Turkey trip is ten days. I guess life happens & we all adjust.

Croesus

Unless you drive like a Turk, Pamukkale to Kaş is more like 5 hours.

CocoBeen

lol - noted. thanks, croesus.

brenda66

too bad you are missing seeing Phaselis, Cirali and Olympos along the coast from Demre to Antalya

http://www.fodors.com/world/europe/t...os-and-cirali/

Turkey has dozens of pristine beaches, among the finest of which is Cirali, a long stretch of fine white sand at the mouth of a towering canyon. The beach, an easy walk from the ruined city of Olympos, is a protected nesting ground for loggerhead turtles. After dark, lights on the shore are extinguished so as not to confuse the hatching babies. On a moonless night, the view of the Milky Way is phenomenal.

CocoBeen

thanks, brenda66 -- yes, it's just too tight on this trip to hit all the points.

CocoBeen

Hello all,

RE: Cappadocia

After reading this and other sites, I've become a little confused about the time/distance involved with the valley hikes. I could use some help organizing our 2.5 days in Cappadocia in mid-May.

We are arriving around 10am on Saturday & depart on a mid-afternoon flight Monday. We are staying at Sultan Cave suites in Goreme. We will be doing the hot air balloon excursion on Monday morning.

We have five people in the group, one of whom has (medium level) foot issues & would not be interested in more than the Love Valley hike, since it's an easy walk. The others would like to visit Rose Valley as well(and maybe talk the "foot" person into it if there's a sunset etc that she just must see).

1. would it be best to get a guide (and rental car) for Sunday (after we get to Goreme - 11am) or Monday (after the early balloon ride) ? Right now, I'm leaning towards Monday, since the guides seem to start at 930am - looks like it will be a long day, which is ok.

2. what sights should be seen with a guide? we love good guides for learning about the history & making the hikes more interesting.

3. is horse riding there meant for experienced riders only?

4. what points of interest can one travel to by scooter? scooters have always been such a fun & liberating experience in my opinion. Maybe here too.

5. is this the best place to see the whirling dervish program (vs Istanbul)? It probably would be good use of time. I know some people have recommended a nearby venue. I realize it's touristy by nature but just wondered if some options were less touristy than others.

6. is this the best place to visit a hamam (vs Istanbul)- again it would be a good use of time, but only if it's a great experience. Any recommendations?

Right now, I'm leaning towards this schedule:

Saturday - arrive Kayseri 10am & transfer to hotel. rent scooters and drive about. Watch sunset at a good point. Evening performance of whirling dervish.

Sunday - early morning hot air balloon. guide/car from 930am - 5.30pm. Hike with guide during day?

Monday - saved for ballon ride if bad weather on Sunday. Otherwise, morning hike - Rose Valley? Or hamam? transfer to airport for 330pm flight.

Appreciate any thoughts!

Michael

You do not seem to have time for either the Goreme museum (the churches carved out of rocks for which you do not need a guide as it is a relatively small and well delineated area, nor any time for one of the underground cities.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/mksfca/...ith/4208716073

CocoBeen

Thanks, Michael! That's exactly the type of comment I was looking for. ie, that Goreme open air museum could/should be done independently. In fact I thought I'd read that a guide takes folks to the underground cities. We will do those independently on Saturday.

And thanks for the photo link! I was getting a black screen when I opened it but will try again later.

Michael

You must have a slow computer, the black screen should dissolve into a slide show.