A top official of London Underground was just on NPR and he said that passenger levels on the tube system on weekends had declined by 30% and on weekdays by 5-15%; folks have to travel on weekedays but more discretionary on weekends. He also says the fear outweighs the real risks and you'd have more chance of being killed on the M25 than on the Tube. Or i suggest walking in London and crossing streets without thinking the traffic is coming from the 'wrong' side in the case of Yanks.

PalQ, these are interesting stats. Thanks for posting them. I've also read that Copenhagen metro ridership has dropped by 25%.

But I wonder, why single out "Yanks" in respect to road-crossing? Everyone in continental Europe and of course many other countries drives on the right, so far as I can recall, so everyone from those countries is liable to make the same crossing error.

Part of the problem with determining "odds" in this situation is that no one knows what will happen next, so past events are not a guide. For all we know, a thoroughly devastating attack could be planned that would dwarf the previous ones. The odds are very low that someone will be on London transport at that exact moment, of course. And of course some other site could also be a target.

Thanks, PAL.

I can only believe that it is the work of the media fear mongers.

If anything, riding on the tube is safer than it was a month ago...more police, more aware passengers.

Good point on road crossings and 'wrong' side - actually the problem in London is even to Brits due to the many one-way streets where traffic, and especially doubledecker buses blow by so you always have to look both ways - warnings to look left or right are often printed on the sidewalks at crossings. I just singled out Yanks because i, perhaps wrongly, thought that most Fodorites are Yanks - i know there are a lot of Brits. A well know UFO specialist from the US, Dr John Mack of Harvard was recently killed in a zebra crossing, where pedestrians have rights of way and cars must yield - the crossings with the flashing yellow lights and zebra-like white lines i believe - he was killed by a drunk driver. (I'm a UFO debunker by the way!)

And for those worried about Eurostar security - security has always been tight on this natural target and the tube guy said Waterloo station had armed police and soldiers crawling all over it - hate to be a young Arab-looking guy taking his bags to the Eurostar!

<b>U</b>FOs <u>can't</u> be debunked, because we don't know what they are.

<b>I</b>FOs, on the other hand, can.

I have been saying this for over a week and I keep getting told I'm talking rubbish and it's just the school holidays but I've been working in London for more than 10 years and the summer school holidays never caused tubes to be as empty as they are now - if you'd said 30% on weekdays I would have believed it - even in rush hour one can get seats and it's usually so full people are squashed in the standing areas.

Not only are tourist numbers down I think a number of people who might usually come to London now and again for meetings, training and so on are staying out plus regular commuters are working from home.

It's kind of weird.

And there are police everywhere which apparently lots of people find reassuring though I find nothing reassuring about seeing pairs of policemen standing around, looking incredibly bored, occasionally chatting to each other (what one overhears is chit chat not relevant) and certainly not looking attentively at the crowd let alone doing random bag checks or anything.

All I feel reassured of is that, should there be another bomb, they'll be injured or killed right alongside me.

Sorry to be negative and all but that's how I see it.

That said, I'm just using the tube as normal. I haven't got much work this month, which is sucky as I'll be poor, but I'm still going in when I do have work plus about 2-3 times a week to meet friends in town for socialising.

Use of the tube will have declined partly because the tube hasn't been working normally. The Piccadilly Line has been quieter than normal because, until today, it didn't go through central London. Mainline commuter trains from west London into Waterloo and Paddington have seemed busier than normal.

What bothers me is that I know family members are worried by the fact we will be using the Tube when we come, even if I think it's statistically a safe option.

It still seems busy enough to me! I wonder if those reductions are year on year? August is always the quietest month for commuter travel (summer holidays abroad, school holidays at home).

There was a bloke on the radio this morning saying that the tourist industry was taking a hit. Apparently people who had already booked didn't cancel, but it seems that some people aren't now booking for the future.

I'm stil using the tube quite happily as I think that the chances of me as an individual eing hurt are vanishingly small.

To put this into context: I work for a Housing Association, which would by almost all standards be considered non-hazardous work, indoors, mainly clerical, no machinery etc etc. However two of our flats were raided and &quot;suspicious substances&quot; removed from both. I had been to both places (not the specific flats but very close) within the previous fortnight. So in fact I was a greater risk doing my rather unexciting job than I was in travelling to do it.

Personally I'd say that the fewer people on the tube the better. Whilst I think that it's frankly ridiculous to not use it (I find these nervous types irritating in the extreme), the longer I get a seat each time the better.

Incidentally, I do think that these figures have been skewed because the Piccadilly line hasn't been running (my tube line, so delighted it's back...)

I'm surprised at how many people I'm talking to are suggesting not to use it - as others say, the chances of any individual being injured or killed in another attack are likely smaller than the chances of being mugged in the street.

August is definitely a quiet month but... on the lines I've been using it has struck me as quieter than normal.

During my recent stay in London I was more concerned about being hit by the bicycle riders who don't follow the traffic rules than I was on riding the Tube.

Tube travel certainly does feel down. I suspect it's a combination of some of the things suggested - school holidays, tube line disruptions prompting people to take alternative transport, and some reticence to expose themselves to unnecessary risks. Plenty of people are carrying on as normal (me inlcuded) but I do have friends and colleagues who are opting to take buses, bycicles and overland trains when they can. I suspect this will be a short term downturn. My friend who was on one of the trains that blew up is still taking the tube when she has to, but understandably, is avoiding it when she can. She's been opting to work from home on Thursdays, and I can't blame her.

Interestingly, a group of me and friends were talking about the new craze to cycle to work instead of taking the tube - my God, cycling has got to be the most dangerous method of transport in London!

I think that cyclists should be banned - they pay no attention to other road users and pedestrians (for some reason they seem to think it's OK to cycle on pavements...), cause accidents and then behave in a 'holier-than-thou' mannner, suggesting that because they're environmentally friendly, they should be exempt from respecting others! They drive me mad!!

Same here! Riding on the pavement and ignoring red lights at pedestrian crossings particularly pee me off.

Motorcyclists too make me angry - they ignore the standard rules of the road and then blame car drivers for accidents that are so often caused by them. The amount of times I've seen them zoom up the centre of the road, in the centre of the two directions of traffic, and hence fail to see the reason the bus or truck they're passing has stopped and plough right into it.

And don't even get me started on some of the bus drivers at the moment - where are they finding these people?

One of my friends applied for a job as a London bus driver once and was told he was overqualified - what? he had a brain? - he had left school at 16, studied a basic catering course at a local college and wasn't exactly a high falluting walking sheet of qualifications!

And then some of those black cab drivers! Grrrrrr!

Sheesh, I'm starting to sound more and more like a grumpy old woman!

Oh and Kate, I'd NEVER cycle in London either - would feel far less safe than using the tube!

I never would use the tube anyway, it's not necessary, it's unpleasant at best, and well, fatal at worst. Sit by an exit on the lower deck of a bus, drive, or better still, walk!

Now, you all talk about driving/cycling being far more statisticaly dangerous than being the victim of a terrorist attack on the tube. However, whilst of course that is the case, it doesn't quite hold true with one's psychological view. One would rather be in control of their own fate e.g. when you drive you can attempt to avoid collisions; ditto for cycling, but on the tube you're completely at the mercy of the driver, the bomber, etc. etc.

As for why tube ridership is down - fear of taking the tube or closed lines is an intriguing question.
If the ridership was down because of closed lines then it seems bus ridership would be up but figures i saw in the daily rag today said bus ridership was the same as before - no increase, no decrease. And the weekend plunge of 30% over the weekday plunge of 5-15% speaks volume of how people are avoiding the tube unless they have to get to work, etc. the loss of 450,000 daily riders weekdays will obviously mean loss of expected income - either fares will rise or layoffs and service cuts - or ridership will boomerang back up if no attacks - on the other hand further attacks will cause more plunge - the loss in tourist travel cards and tickets will seemingly be acerbated next year when tourists don't come to London - like an above poster said people this year had planned and paid for their trips and had to go - a school group from my area was interviewed - they are in London and are not taking the tube or buses to allay parental fears - they had planned their trip for some years - but don't think they would have gone if attacks had come earlier than their final preparations. I pity London taking the brunt of all this but expect lots of loss in the considerable tourist business, from West End theatres to the tube, hotels, etc. And the article today said bike sales were up 100% - this of course doesn't mean bike ridership will be up that much as many bikes bought never leave the garage.

I agree with MK2 and have said that before, in some fashion, you ARE more in control of a situation with cycling and driving a car, etc. than you are at the mercy of a terrorist attack in a foreign country and environment, (speaking of tourists, now) and WT's point too, a good one, in that past events really CANNOT be used as a predictor of future probability for criminal events of this type, in the way that common auto accidents and other such accidents of daily life can be, or even becoming a victim of a common crime can be. So it really is rather meaningless to spout such statistics in the context of a terrorist act-they just don't compare.

And PalQ-as far as security being &quot;tight&quot; at Waterloo, it was nothing less than astonishing that Osman Hussein, (the 4th attempt bomber) with his face plastered all over the country and the world, with British Special Forces patrolling the Eurostar station, was able to walk up to the Eurostar counter, buy a ticket IN HIS OWN NAME AND GO THROUGH A PASSPORT CHECK, and then board a Eurostar bound for Milan with nary a glance or second look!

Amazing! (and amongst the law enforcement and intelligence folks I've talked to, this was regarded with more than a bit of astonishment, and yes, disgust). I understand there will be an investigation as to how this was allowed to happen. It sure doesn't inspire a lot of confidence in their ability to counter the threat, now, does it?

The Italians, on the other hand, intercepted a cell phone call of the 4th attempt bomber when he talked to his brother right after reaching Milan,, matched it up, tracked him down to Rome, got his brother, questioned him, and then picked up the defendant at his brother's apt. with no fanfare. Altogeher, a day and a half after he left London and crossed the Italian border.

Brilliant operation on the part of the Italian intelligence service (known as the DIGOS). Really. That's why I say what I do about the Italians-I trust them to get the job done right, and being able to successfully defend their turf (through excellent intell. work) from any possible attacks from sleeper cells which are most definitely in the area.

And if the Waterloo incident is what passes for security in GB, (they didn't even appear to have ANY change in security immediately after July 7th-it wasn't until after the 2d attempt that they even got a clue about a show of force-MYSTIFYING), they're going to have to step up their game a hell of a lot more quickly than they have done, because they might not get so lucky a break anther time.

The NY Times is reporting the same thing as the Sunday Times did a few days ago, that a third attack is almost certainly planned:

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/05/in.../05london.html