Rasputin1

adelaidean = I have never heard of a flight from Australia bumping its passengers. This is a new one for me. We would have been extremely ropeable if that had happened to us. I am sure that your plans would have been curtailed by this action. Where along your route were you bumped off? Some sheik and his entourage wanted your seats? Hope you received lots of compensation.

Adelaidean

We were bumped the Kuala Lumpur to Adelaide leg, coming from Frankfurt (13.5 hours) there's already a 16 hour layover, so being bumped was very frustrating. Airlines have varying policies on compensation, we had a nice room, meal vouchers and some local currency to help pass the extra day. Apparently all airlines overbook, and there is sophisticated software to calculate how many 'no shows' to expect.

Erice and Trapani are definitely on my to do list..... those spaghetti streets sound fascinating, Adelaide is very orderly and square

Dayle

Rasputin,

I certainly agree with you about the spaghetti streets and evil cobblestones in Erice! My first day in Sicily was in Erice in a pouring rainstorm and I certainly was glad I had sneakers along for hiking.

Loved the city and didn't find lots of other visitors in most-April either.

Are you there now?

Rasputin1

Yes Dayle. We are in Caltagirone at this minute. Peter has done all the horrendous driving. If he was not already grey he would be. Even as a passenger and part time navigator it was stressful. Agrigento was a nightmare. Caltinassetta was as bad. We managed Enna by parking at the cemetery and walking right up to the Castle - all in all about 4 km. Then another dreadful drive to Piazza Armerina. I was hoping to avoid the town altogether but the road signs were so hopeless that we did not take the road to B Franca and it was only as I looked over the edge of the motorway that I saw the second sign well after the turn off that showed that the same road would have taken us to Pizza Armerina's Roman Casale. I think we circumnavigated each of these hill towns several times before we actually got where we wanted to go and so much time and diesel was wasted. We arrived at our lovely accommodation in Caltagirone only to receive the sad news that Peter's brother had died the previous day. It was to be expected but it is still a shock none the less.

annhig

oh dear, Rasputin. Condolences on the death of Peter's brother. WE had a similar experience in Berlin when DH's sister died - again it was not unexpected but being away from home somehow made it worse, I don't know why.

You are visiting some of the places we are hoping to get to and I'm wondering why the driving is so bad - it is the traffic or the signage? or something else?

I hope that the accommodation went some way to make up for it!

shellio

Let me add my condolences about the death in your family; it's always a shock no matter how prepared you think you may be. I hope you can continue to enjoy your trip.

Like Annhig, I'm interested to learn about the "horrendous driving" experiences. We will be driving many of the same roads next month and I'm most concerned to avoid difficult driving. Can you expand on where you had dreadful driving , i.e. which roads and what made them so difficult?

thursdaysd

So sorry to hear about the death. However expected it must be a real shock and downer. Like shellio I hope you can still enjoy Sicily.

The driving sounds worse than some other reports, but i continue to be glad I didn't try it!

Rasputin1

Thank you all for your kind thoughts. Yes, even though expected it is still a jolt to the system. Not being there to support the family is difficult.
Will haveto get ack t this. Thkeyoard is lyin u

Rasputin1

Don't know what happened yesterday but I believe the issue was on the Fodor's site because we did not have any keyboard issues on any other site.

Autostrada A29 all the way Trapani to Castelvetrano (when you can find the right A29 – there are three!). Speed limits varied between 80 and 100 and even though we kept to those, other drivers were leaving us well behind.

Reasonable signage all the way even in Castelvetrano to Selinunte. Luckily for us our accommodation (B & B il Tempio di Hera) was right opposite the Archeological park and we had no trouble finding it. Also lucky to have Rita upgrade us to a Deluxe room on the first floor with a view of the temple. Usually it is a great view but as it was spring all the bushes were in full bloom and obscured all but the top quarter of the temple. Also it was not illuminated at night as my research had led me to believe. Perhaps only in high season.

Having visited Segesta, we would both agree that if you have the opportunity to visit that site especially if the amphitheatre is open, then don’t come to Selinunte. The site is vast and mostly rubble. Finger shaking at Hannibal for the senseless destruction. Even in April and 20degrees, we soon found it oppressive and draining. The site is not as well kept as Segesta but understand that it is 20 times larger and much more difficult to maintain because of the rubble. Nor is it as accessible for the same reason. The electric buggies/trains are a good idea if you want to escape the long walks. Suggest that one walks off the cobbled path on the flat open area/driveways for the electric buggies – better on your feet, ankles and knees.

Wild weeds everywhere interspersed with a few red poppies. Green lizards scurry across the paths and off rocks where they have been sunning themselves to get out of your way. However the long grass could also harbour snakes and scorpions. Although logically I know that the lizards are neither slimy or dangerous, their quickness reminds me of the Asian geckos and I am on the lookout for them in case they illogically climb up my trousers! The long grass also has nettles so if you don’t want to be stung, wear long trousers.

Many people clamber up the rubble for photo opportunities – a dangerous pastime if you are alone and injure yourself. The rocks are covered with lichen which can be slippery.

We opted to drive our car to the acropolis site car park. There is still a long uphill rubble walk along the walls of the acropolis. We saw one young couple dragging their child’s pram up the slope and wondered how they were going to manage it once they were at the top over all the boulders. Wonderful views of the beach and bay of Marinella Selinunte and probably to Fontella too. The sea is beautiful shades of aqua.

We decided to just view the main Temples A B & C and not continue over to the Malophorus across the Medione or to Torre Manuzza, though we did see some diehards tramping on to them. This is one area where the electric buggies are worthwhile as they take you right up to the top where you can then scramble at will over the rocks. In autumn when the grass has all died down you probably have greater access to the ruins. On balance however, you will have to cope with extreme heat and no shade.

If you really want in-depth information without taking a tour guide E12. You can get it from Wikipedia.org/wiki/Selinunte or the Michelin Green Guide or any other guide book in some form or another.

There is a cafe/bar and several souvenir shops at the lower car park near the ticket office. Across the road from the park are a number of enoteca/bars and pizzeria if you are hungry.

If you want, there is a small supermercato in Via Icaro, almost behind the post office which is in Via Antigone. It closes for lunch. If you walk up Via Icaro you will come to Via Pindaro. Stop and have a look at this strange road with a wide ‘platform’ and benches in the centre. Looks just a like a train platform does it not? And it is. Once upon a time, 40+ years ago there was a train line from Castelvetrano that went right past the temples (a wonderful view indeed) into the Selinunte train station. The embankment for the train line with the underpasses can be clearly seen from inside the park. Walk into the area bound by Via Persefone and Via degli Argonauti and you will see the preserved remains of the two rail lines, the water tank and filler for the steam engine and the platform and ticket office. The latter also served as Valentino’s cafe some time ago but is now just derelict. The train yard has been turned into a car park for the overflow from the archaeological park.

Selinunte is very small so unless you want to stay on the beach there is nothing other than the park.

Rasputin1

annhig and shellio - driving is difficult for a number of reasons. In Australia we are used to wide roads and road rules. We have sufficient insurance to cover all eventualities. Most cars are automatic whereas here in Italy that is not so. Most cars are stick/gear shift - five on the floor. Not having driven a non automatic car for some 30+ years and having so many digital controls made it difficult to know that you are in control of the car. Peter often turned on the windscreen wipers when he wanted the indicator or the lights (going through long unlit tunnels).

You often have to start the car on a slope with cars close behind you. When you are not completely in control of the car, this is an enormous stress.

As I said the streets are narrow. People double park and leave their car there and vanish, so that you are thrown into the oncoming traffic. This traffic is fast and cars are driven by people who obviously have not seen you and are not interested - they are smoking or talking on their phones and probably driving with one hand at well above the speed that would be safe for those roads, ie 5km an hour.

Signs are non existent or tiny on brown backgrounds. The main blue signs are few and far between and will send you in a direction and there will not be any further signage. When you do find some or get some directions if you are able to stop and ask someone (not an easy task), you will be sent back to where you came from and round and round you go. For instance, when we were coming into Piazza Armerina there was reasonable signage for the Roman Casale and we wanted to avoid having to go into PA itself. We came to a divide in the autostrada which read Brarra Franco to the right, so we presumed PA Roman Casale was straight ahead. The Barra Franco road went under the autostrada we were on. I looked over the edge as we passed and there further on the Barra Franco road was the sign to Roman Casale!!! This meant that we were automatically thrown into Piazza Armerina with no signage and the locals extremely unhelpful, some did not even know where RC was. Parking is impossible after 8.00am

The autostradas out of towns are good. Travelling west to east meant that all the heavy traffic eg trucks were travelling in the opposite direction and we only needed to overtake one or two. No one pays any attention to the speed limit. If the speed limit is 50 and we are travelling at 69+ or 99 there are cars that are obviously travelling at a rate much more than that and are passing us and leaving us in the dust. Imagine if you were in a collision or had to try to avoid a collision that was occurring in front of you - no hope at all.

Travelling in the hill towns are worse as the roads are narrow and the locals drive as if they were on the autostradas have no patience with anyone who is stalled or obviously unsure of where to go.

As for the insurance. We booked through Avis in Melbourne and they assured us that we were covered for CWD and theft and our documents indicated this. However, when we went to collect our vehicle, the AVIS office insisted that that clause was invalid and we needed to pay another E55+ per day to cover damage and theft. On top of that there was a E10,000 excess. We refused and said that we would take the vehicle without paying the extra. They were very annoyed and were thoroughly rude and when we asked about the spare wheel (Italian cars are so small that they often do not have a spare wheel) they grudglingly showed us the wheel and when we asked where and how the car was filled, they did not know where the petrol tank cover release was. So all in all it was a poor start to our rental and a stressful situation knowing that theft of cars is big in Sicily as well as theft of your goods. We made sure that there was nothing visible in the car (hence our need of a larger car to fit two cases in) and used a cable cord to thread through the handles of the cases with a digital lock making it difficult for anyone to lift the cases out of the boot if they indeed went that far. There are also cases where the little man (unofficial) will try to collect money from you where you park the car. If you refuse you are likely to return to find your car keyed or mirrors or windows smashed. In Ragusa we decided to pay for parking in a multi storied car park and that was a good decision. Our car was safe and four hours only cost us E3! We walked all the way to the Torre in Ragusa Ibla and took the bus back from there right to our car park (Bus 1) for just E1.20 each. Driving out of Ragusa Superiore was also reasonably easy (as against driving in) with the assistance of the helpful staff at the information office office the Duomo in Ragusa Superiore.

We had looked at purchasing Italian maps for our Tom Tom but it would have cost us more than $100 for the 6 - 7 day usage. We downloaded My Maps but that was too clumsy to use.

thursdaysd

Definitely glad I chose not to drive! But the rental place may have been right about the insurance. I know that US credit card insurance is not valid in Italy. Or maybe they thought you were American.

TDudette

Rasputin1, every thing you said about driving in an unfamiliar car is so true. Not just in Italy but every where! Your TR is very thorough and interesting.

Oh, DH and I decided there is a plan to driving in Sicily: your goal is not to stop. Just go around those pesky pedestrians and folks driving the speed limit.

annhig

For instance, when we were coming into Piazza Armerina there was reasonable signage for the Roman Casale and we wanted to avoid having to go into PA itself. We came to a divide in the autostrada which read Brarra Franco to the right, so we presumed PA Roman Casale was straight ahead. The Barra Franco road went under the autostrada we were on. I looked over the edge as we passed and there further on the Barra Franco road was the sign to Roman Casale!!!>>

excellent tip - we'll look out for that. Fortunately, though the controls will be the wrong way round for us, as they were for you, we are both used to driving a manual car, and to driving in Europe so that aspect shouldn't' be to bad. As for getting used to the controls, a couple of years ago in Germany it took us the entire week we had it to get used to the VW we had hired - I couldn't even get it to start for the first 10 minutes. but it's a good point about the CDW - I will make sure that's covered.

Still enjoying your TR, BTW - keep it coming.

sundriedtopepo

Rasputin1 first of all, sorry to hear about your husband's brother. Even thhough expected, it's not a nice thing to deal with while on vacation.

But I'm glad you're carrying on. I think I liked Selinunte the most of the 3 Greek temples sites, I just found it very evocative, that lonely windswept hilltop setting with the remnants of temples scattered about.
I didn't realize at the time that there are poisonous snakes in Italy, though. Yikes!

Although the views from Enna are pretty awesome, we didn't like driving into that city. At the time, we had Co-Pilot app, which I found very clumsy to use as well, but now we get a data Sim card and use google maps, it's never failed us yet.

Hopefully, it will work well in May for us.

>> If you refuse you are likely to return to find your car keyed or mirrors or windows smashed.<<

We never had a problem with that. I'm wondering where you got that information...I certainly wouldn't want my car keyed.

shellio

Thanks much for your clarification of the driving difficulties. I absolutely get the issue of driving on the unfamiliar side of the road using a manual transmission. The last time we drove in England I thought my marriage might not survive the stress! You can't keep screaming "look out!" at your spouse and call it a romantic drive.

I gather though that your primary issues were more the drivers' speed and lack of attention and the signage. Although not looking forward to that, I feel reassured that my particular phobia won't be tested too far.

My major fear of driving in Sicily is finding myself on a narrow road with a sheer drop on one side and a cliff on the other. Driving through the Pyrenees south of Bilbao nearly killed me, physically and emotionally. I'm a wuss.

Thanks for the info on Selinunte. We are planning to visit there after Agrigento and before Segesta but we might take the opportunity to spend a day at the beach rather than hike the site.

I hope you enjoy the rest of your trip.

progol

I'm just reading this now and am so sorry to hear about the loss in your family. As annhig said, even though it was expected, it's still a loss -- and not to be there is hard. Glad to hear though that you are continuing on and hope that the trip is enjoyable for you both.

I've also been interested in reading about the details of your experiences with driving. DH is the designated driver and I'll be giving him fair warning as to what to expect. At least he is used to the RH driving, so that won't be adding to the stress. I do appreciate your comments about the challenges of getting out in the hill towns. I also will confirm that our credit card covers the CDW.

One more thing.....did I miss something about poisonous snakes. I do see reference to snakes, but not poisonous ones in the post on Selinunte:

<<Wild weeds everywhere interspersed with a few red poppies. Green lizards scurry across the paths and off rocks where they have been sunning themselves to get out of your way. However the long grass could also harbour snakes and scorpions. >>

Then sundried wrote:

<<But I'm glad you're carrying on. I think I liked Selinunte the most of the 3 Greek temples sites, I just found it very evocative, that lonely windswept hilltop setting with the remnants of temples scattered about.
I didn't realize at the time that there are poisonous snakes in Italy, though. Yikes!>>

Did I miss another reference? Just want to be prepared!

thursdaysd

A little checking on the web turns up the info that there are poisonous vipers in Italy (presumably that includes Sicily, but it is an island). They will not attack unless disturbed. There are even vipers in England, as I recall, but bites are extremely rare.

Rasputin1

Thanks for your encouragement. I will reply to your enquiries asap.
In Syracuse now, having returned the car but finding that AVIS Trapani had sneakily added a charge for
Young drivers - we are both over 65! and also a charge for a counter purchase which we knew nothing about and had not agreed to. The first charge was obviously a crock and AVIS Syracuse took it off, but would not take off the second as we had signed the Italian documents (even though we had been told in Melbourne and the Italian documents said that we would be given an English translation). There was no indication on the document of any other charge, only on their online document! So we will be complaining about that. Neither office had an English translation of the conditions, only in German or Spanish!

Adelaidean

Rasputin, I hope you are enjoying your trip despite your loss.
I was interested in your experiences with car rental/ driving... I expect we'll be on the bus, it all sounds too stressful to me.

annhig

Young drivers - we are both over 65! and also a charge for a counter purchase which we knew nothing about and had not agreed to. >>

lol - is their definition of a young driver being under 65???

seriously, what was the "counter purchase"?

I don't think we'll be renting through AVIS.