Trip Report November 2007 Southern Spain
Mar 15th, 2008, 08:06 AM
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Trip Report November 2007 Southern Spain
I am very delinquent in putting this out but I figured better late than never!
We spent six days in Southern Spain and 3 days in Portugal (around the Lisbon area). I am going to give the highlights (and low lights) as opposed a day by day.
General Comments - We were most surprised by two things in Spain: language was a bigger barrier than we anticipated and the people were less friendly than we expected. my husband and I have been to more than 40 countries and always try to respectful by learning a functional version of the language and trying to understand any customs of the area we're traveling to. I am more comfortable with Spanish than any other language but found myself feeling quite lost and not altogether welcome. It is important to note that we had some incredible experiences along our way and the staff at all of the hotels we picked were great - but many of the people in the restaurants and shops were not all that welcoming or helpful.
The Madrid airport - we flew through Madrid to get to Malaga. Again we are frequent travelers but found the Madrid airport rather confusing. We landed early in the morning and there was no one at the gate to direct us. A security guard told us that we needed to take a bus to another terminal for our connecting flight. You have to make sure to have plenty of connection time because you will likely have to wait for the bus and then once en route it is a 8-10 minute ride. When we got to the other terminal, we went to three different counters trying to get our boarding passes for our Iberia flight only to be told to use the machines to check in. Then you have to get back in line to check your bags. Iberia would continue to be a challenge on this trip and by the end you'll see why it is unlikley that we would ever fly them again.
Malaga - If you choose to drive to Malaga, the driving is not that challenging but keep a close eye out for Exit 236A - it will take you right in to the city. If you miss it (we did), it's a bit of a challenge getting back. We stayed at the Malaga Centro hotel and were very happy with it. We had room 313 which was spacious and had a decent view. They have a mini bar with complimentary juice, soda and water - that they replenish for free. There's a bar and restaurant on property and the staff was extremely helpful - quite the value for around $100 US !!
The view from the castle is incredible - don't miss it. A walk along the port is also very relaxing (they usually have a street market on this main road across from the ocean). At the suggestion from fodorites we went to El Bodega Pimpi - easy to get to on your way back from the Castle - and it was worth the trip (a friendly bartender!, good wine and good food). We also went to Casa de la Guardia (right on the main street) and enjoyed a unique tasting experience - met some very nice travelers as well. We had a very good dinner at Laboratorio (Carreteria, 92) - italian style, friendly staff, good wine list and menus in english (a nice treat but ironically bt then we were figuring out the spanish ones!!)
The spanish really go all out with the Chrsitmas decorations and the city was breathtaking at night!
We spent two days and three night in Malaga which was just about right. Depsite the few people that made the start a bit uncomfortable, all in all we enjoyed our time here. It is definitely worth a visit.
Alhambra - We drove to Granada mainly to visit Alhambra. Granada seemed like a very nice town - a little more bustling than Malaga. We saw the cathedral (beautiful) and walked the town checking out the various sights. We stopped in a random restaurant to have a glass of wine while we waited for our appointed entry time at Alhambra. Unfortunately neither of us can remember the name but its on the Plaza Nueva, white front with tables outside amid several Indian restaurants. There were two people working the restaurant - the chef and a gentlemen who was the greeter, waiter and cashier!! We were initially their onyl customers and they were fabulous. We just orderd a glass of wine and all of the sudden they start bringing out sample plates of food (paella, pate, bagettes with pork slices and apple butter, salad, etc) - "from the chef". The food was great!. When the bill came there was only a charge for two glasses of wine!! Needless to say we gave them a HUGE tip and took pictures with both of them (and no I couldn't find the restaurant name in the pictures).
Alhambra - definitely buy your tickets on line before hand - we did and pick up is easy. You put your credit card in the machine, it brings up your order and prints the tickets. NOTE: There is a separate entry time to the Palace - and they are VERY rigid about it - so pay close attention when you are purchasing. Alhambra was beautiful and very expansive but I think it would have been more breathtaking in the spring when everything is in bloom. We were there in winter, on a dreary day so I don't think we got the full appreciation - still very much worth the trip and great views of the city.
Gibraltar - On the way to Cadiz, we decided to stop in Gibraltar - one of the highlights of the trip!! Even though it was raining, it was still incredible. I must admit that I did not know that Gibraltar was a British territory (my husband did). You have to stop and show your passport on the way on and off the rock. Gibraltar is completely self contained sovereignty (had to look that up!) - there are lots of hotels, shops, restaurants - even its own air strip. We would love to go back and stay on the rock. If you are in the area definitely stop - and be brave and drive to the top of the rock - it's scary but worth it !! (By the way you pay in pounds on the rock - we used credits cards for everything so we wouldn't wind up with leftovers)
Cadiz - We drove through Tarifa on the way and stopped at a little roadside cafe. On the water side, you can see Africa (Morrocco) - to the land side you see hundreds and hundreds of windmills - as far as the eye can see.
In Cadiz, we stayed at the Hotel Puerta Tierra - room 410. Good location (walking distance to the old town), parking, free wifi, large, clean rooms for 60 euro a night! Eat and drink outside the hotel - that part's expensive.
Cadiz is a beautiful little town - right on the water (beautiful views), compact old town area with a maze of cobblestone streets and alleys (just wander - you won't get lost) - many squares where people gather and socialize. Good shopping, people watching and eating. Cadiz was also decorated beautifully.
We wandered in a tiny little restaurant on one of the alleys - and the again the owner was giving us free samples of food (and trust me we don't look like we need to be fed!
) and filling up our wine glasses - our tab was 4 euros! One tip - if you eat later (after 9:00) get out of old town and back to the main drag.
Seville - We stayed in .the Hotel Dona Manuela. Loved the hotel - great value - but we spent two hours trying to find it! We printed directions off of Via Michelin (usually very reliable) which told us to turn on a pedestrian only street. We asked three different police officers who all pointed us in different directions (at one point, as we were asking for directions, we were less than a 1/4 block from the hotel and the policeman sent us int he opposite direction!). It turned out that the hotel name was hidden by some trees and we had driven pst it 20 times!!
Room 19 or 28 are the best - on the corner, great view, large, lots of windows - and again like the others, right around $100 US.
Gibraltar tower provides incredible views of the city. The city is rather spread out - consider taking the double deck bus hop on hop off tour - you get to see the whole city and you can use it as your transportation.
I am going to put the Lisbon portion under a different thread. Hope this is helpful. Glad to answer questions about the various sites in each area but wanted to keep this from getting to long ...
Hope some of it is helpful.
Merri
We spent six days in Southern Spain and 3 days in Portugal (around the Lisbon area). I am going to give the highlights (and low lights) as opposed a day by day.
General Comments - We were most surprised by two things in Spain: language was a bigger barrier than we anticipated and the people were less friendly than we expected. my husband and I have been to more than 40 countries and always try to respectful by learning a functional version of the language and trying to understand any customs of the area we're traveling to. I am more comfortable with Spanish than any other language but found myself feeling quite lost and not altogether welcome. It is important to note that we had some incredible experiences along our way and the staff at all of the hotels we picked were great - but many of the people in the restaurants and shops were not all that welcoming or helpful.
The Madrid airport - we flew through Madrid to get to Malaga. Again we are frequent travelers but found the Madrid airport rather confusing. We landed early in the morning and there was no one at the gate to direct us. A security guard told us that we needed to take a bus to another terminal for our connecting flight. You have to make sure to have plenty of connection time because you will likely have to wait for the bus and then once en route it is a 8-10 minute ride. When we got to the other terminal, we went to three different counters trying to get our boarding passes for our Iberia flight only to be told to use the machines to check in. Then you have to get back in line to check your bags. Iberia would continue to be a challenge on this trip and by the end you'll see why it is unlikley that we would ever fly them again.
Malaga - If you choose to drive to Malaga, the driving is not that challenging but keep a close eye out for Exit 236A - it will take you right in to the city. If you miss it (we did), it's a bit of a challenge getting back. We stayed at the Malaga Centro hotel and were very happy with it. We had room 313 which was spacious and had a decent view. They have a mini bar with complimentary juice, soda and water - that they replenish for free. There's a bar and restaurant on property and the staff was extremely helpful - quite the value for around $100 US !!
The view from the castle is incredible - don't miss it. A walk along the port is also very relaxing (they usually have a street market on this main road across from the ocean). At the suggestion from fodorites we went to El Bodega Pimpi - easy to get to on your way back from the Castle - and it was worth the trip (a friendly bartender!, good wine and good food). We also went to Casa de la Guardia (right on the main street) and enjoyed a unique tasting experience - met some very nice travelers as well. We had a very good dinner at Laboratorio (Carreteria, 92) - italian style, friendly staff, good wine list and menus in english (a nice treat but ironically bt then we were figuring out the spanish ones!!)
The spanish really go all out with the Chrsitmas decorations and the city was breathtaking at night!
We spent two days and three night in Malaga which was just about right. Depsite the few people that made the start a bit uncomfortable, all in all we enjoyed our time here. It is definitely worth a visit.
Alhambra - We drove to Granada mainly to visit Alhambra. Granada seemed like a very nice town - a little more bustling than Malaga. We saw the cathedral (beautiful) and walked the town checking out the various sights. We stopped in a random restaurant to have a glass of wine while we waited for our appointed entry time at Alhambra. Unfortunately neither of us can remember the name but its on the Plaza Nueva, white front with tables outside amid several Indian restaurants. There were two people working the restaurant - the chef and a gentlemen who was the greeter, waiter and cashier!! We were initially their onyl customers and they were fabulous. We just orderd a glass of wine and all of the sudden they start bringing out sample plates of food (paella, pate, bagettes with pork slices and apple butter, salad, etc) - "from the chef". The food was great!. When the bill came there was only a charge for two glasses of wine!! Needless to say we gave them a HUGE tip and took pictures with both of them (and no I couldn't find the restaurant name in the pictures).
Alhambra - definitely buy your tickets on line before hand - we did and pick up is easy. You put your credit card in the machine, it brings up your order and prints the tickets. NOTE: There is a separate entry time to the Palace - and they are VERY rigid about it - so pay close attention when you are purchasing. Alhambra was beautiful and very expansive but I think it would have been more breathtaking in the spring when everything is in bloom. We were there in winter, on a dreary day so I don't think we got the full appreciation - still very much worth the trip and great views of the city.
Gibraltar - On the way to Cadiz, we decided to stop in Gibraltar - one of the highlights of the trip!! Even though it was raining, it was still incredible. I must admit that I did not know that Gibraltar was a British territory (my husband did). You have to stop and show your passport on the way on and off the rock. Gibraltar is completely self contained sovereignty (had to look that up!) - there are lots of hotels, shops, restaurants - even its own air strip. We would love to go back and stay on the rock. If you are in the area definitely stop - and be brave and drive to the top of the rock - it's scary but worth it !! (By the way you pay in pounds on the rock - we used credits cards for everything so we wouldn't wind up with leftovers)
Cadiz - We drove through Tarifa on the way and stopped at a little roadside cafe. On the water side, you can see Africa (Morrocco) - to the land side you see hundreds and hundreds of windmills - as far as the eye can see.
In Cadiz, we stayed at the Hotel Puerta Tierra - room 410. Good location (walking distance to the old town), parking, free wifi, large, clean rooms for 60 euro a night! Eat and drink outside the hotel - that part's expensive.
Cadiz is a beautiful little town - right on the water (beautiful views), compact old town area with a maze of cobblestone streets and alleys (just wander - you won't get lost) - many squares where people gather and socialize. Good shopping, people watching and eating. Cadiz was also decorated beautifully.
We wandered in a tiny little restaurant on one of the alleys - and the again the owner was giving us free samples of food (and trust me we don't look like we need to be fed!
) and filling up our wine glasses - our tab was 4 euros! One tip - if you eat later (after 9:00) get out of old town and back to the main drag.Seville - We stayed in .the Hotel Dona Manuela. Loved the hotel - great value - but we spent two hours trying to find it! We printed directions off of Via Michelin (usually very reliable) which told us to turn on a pedestrian only street. We asked three different police officers who all pointed us in different directions (at one point, as we were asking for directions, we were less than a 1/4 block from the hotel and the policeman sent us int he opposite direction!). It turned out that the hotel name was hidden by some trees and we had driven pst it 20 times!!
Room 19 or 28 are the best - on the corner, great view, large, lots of windows - and again like the others, right around $100 US.
Gibraltar tower provides incredible views of the city. The city is rather spread out - consider taking the double deck bus hop on hop off tour - you get to see the whole city and you can use it as your transportation.
I am going to put the Lisbon portion under a different thread. Hope this is helpful. Glad to answer questions about the various sites in each area but wanted to keep this from getting to long ...
Hope some of it is helpful.
Merri
Mar 15th, 2008, 11:56 AM
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Thanks for posting your report. I am leaving for Spain in 3 weeks and I will be visiting Granada and Seville. I love traveling in the Spring because I love gardens. Can't wait to visit the Alhambra.
I have read that Spain presents more of a language barrier than other Western European countries. I have already brushed up on my very limited Spanish, so I see how I do.
I have read that Spain presents more of a language barrier than other Western European countries. I have already brushed up on my very limited Spanish, so I see how I do.
Mar 17th, 2008, 01:29 AM
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Merrisr--
Thanks for taking the time to post your trip report. We are going in May to Seville, Granada and Marbella so your comments are helpful.
You are motivating me to start working on my Spanish. Our children have been studying it for 5 to 7 years so I am hoping to rely on them as well. And, hopefully, waiters and shop owners will take more kindly to young people!
I had decided NOT to do Gibraltar because so many here and on tripadvisor say it's a tourist trap and a disappointment. Now I'm rethinking that.
Did you stay overnight in Granada? If so, where?
Thanks, again.
Thanks for taking the time to post your trip report. We are going in May to Seville, Granada and Marbella so your comments are helpful.
You are motivating me to start working on my Spanish. Our children have been studying it for 5 to 7 years so I am hoping to rely on them as well. And, hopefully, waiters and shop owners will take more kindly to young people!
I had decided NOT to do Gibraltar because so many here and on tripadvisor say it's a tourist trap and a disappointment. Now I'm rethinking that.
Did you stay overnight in Granada? If so, where?
Thanks, again.
)
Mar 21st, 2008, 08:31 PM
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Thanks for posting the report. We are planning a trip to Costa del Sol for Christmas, 2008, and I found many of your comments helpful. How did you find the weather?
We, too, are traveling to Malaga via Madrid. We are traveling American Airlines to Madrid, and the changing to Ibera for the trip to Malaga. I'm interested in any further comments you have on Iberia.
Thanks again for the report!
Chels
We, too, are traveling to Malaga via Madrid. We are traveling American Airlines to Madrid, and the changing to Ibera for the trip to Malaga. I'm interested in any further comments you have on Iberia.
Thanks again for the report!
Chels
Mar 22nd, 2008, 03:36 AM
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I agree with Artlover, we found the Spanish to be very warm.
The service is more "matter of fact" in that waiters and hotel staff will not engage in chit chat or get overly effusive with the customers, something that is different than for instance in the U.S.A, where service is more friendly but sometimes not very professional.
In Spain we had two very good examples of the genuine warmth of the people.
Once in Sevilla we had a total stanger pay for our meal (for two) after just a casual conversation in an outdoor cafe. My DH & I were shocked when we went to pay the bill and found it was already paid. Another time in Madrid at Casa Patas we struck up a brief conversation with another family after seeing we shared the same last name. They gave us their address in Asturias and offered to have us visit them. They also asssumed that they should show us around Madrid (even after a casual first meeting) and apologized that they could not due to visitors there! So different than in the USA, where this would never happen, at least with such a casual aquaintence.
Friendliness of a culture is not always best measured by the style & manner of hotel and restaurant staff, more about the people in general.
The service is more "matter of fact" in that waiters and hotel staff will not engage in chit chat or get overly effusive with the customers, something that is different than for instance in the U.S.A, where service is more friendly but sometimes not very professional.
In Spain we had two very good examples of the genuine warmth of the people.
Once in Sevilla we had a total stanger pay for our meal (for two) after just a casual conversation in an outdoor cafe. My DH & I were shocked when we went to pay the bill and found it was already paid. Another time in Madrid at Casa Patas we struck up a brief conversation with another family after seeing we shared the same last name. They gave us their address in Asturias and offered to have us visit them. They also asssumed that they should show us around Madrid (even after a casual first meeting) and apologized that they could not due to visitors there! So different than in the USA, where this would never happen, at least with such a casual aquaintence.
Friendliness of a culture is not always best measured by the style & manner of hotel and restaurant staff, more about the people in general.
Mar 22nd, 2008, 04:51 AM
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Hi Merrisr,
Better late than never! Thank you for posting your report.
Hi amsdon,
Wow, that really is remarkable... and probably says as much about you and it does about them.
We're leaving a week from Monday for Madrid... I have never before been so excited about a trip!
Better late than never! Thank you for posting your report.
Hi amsdon,
Wow, that really is remarkable... and probably says as much about you and it does about them.
We're leaving a week from Monday for Madrid... I have never before been so excited about a trip!
Mar 22nd, 2008, 05:42 AM
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Anne Marie how exciting! You are sweet to say so. Really I find that a little smile and a genuine interest in others comes across in any country. That said, I will admit that the first time in Spain I was a bit jolted by the service as I mentioned, nore matter of fact and that may seem brusque in the states at first.
Have you been there before?
Have you been there before?
Mar 22nd, 2008, 10:32 AM
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Hi Ana Maria,
This will be my first trip to Spain, however, DH lived in Madrid as a child between the ages of 8-11--I wonder what / how he'll remember things.
I've gathered a great deal of information from the trip reports on this board, I find them to be so helpful. Thank you so much for your contributions, especially the detailed feedback you provided a poster on flamenco which I found to be very insightful.
This coming week is going to be the longest week of my life... ;-)
This will be my first trip to Spain, however, DH lived in Madrid as a child between the ages of 8-11--I wonder what / how he'll remember things.
I've gathered a great deal of information from the trip reports on this board, I find them to be so helpful. Thank you so much for your contributions, especially the detailed feedback you provided a poster on flamenco which I found to be very insightful.
This coming week is going to be the longest week of my life... ;-)
Mar 23rd, 2008, 05:17 AM
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Hi Ana Maria,
We have just 10 days... we're concentrating our focus on Madrid with day trips to El Escorial and Segovia, two nights in Toledo. It's never enough time and I hope we're not rushing things as it is. We return late on the 10th and I promise to report back.
We have just 10 days... we're concentrating our focus on Madrid with day trips to El Escorial and Segovia, two nights in Toledo. It's never enough time and I hope we're not rushing things as it is. We return late on the 10th and I promise to report back.
Mar 23rd, 2008, 11:19 AM
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Ann Marie,
For a good value if you are not too pooped out on Tuesday I would check out Cardamomo a little flamenco club. I know looks like you arrive on tues, but after 10:30 pm at 11:30 or 12:30 pm only it is supposed to be free and the day to go is Tuesday I hear.
What can you lose for the price of a drink? The site has a map too.
http://www.cardamomo.es/
For a good value if you are not too pooped out on Tuesday I would check out Cardamomo a little flamenco club. I know looks like you arrive on tues, but after 10:30 pm at 11:30 or 12:30 pm only it is supposed to be free and the day to go is Tuesday I hear.
What can you lose for the price of a drink? The site has a map too.
http://www.cardamomo.es/
Mar 25th, 2008, 01:57 AM
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Thanks for all of your interest in the post - you've motivated me to come back and finish the trip report for the Portugal portion.
A couple of responses -and sorry I didn't do them sooner - didn't realize I'd gotten responses to the original post.
Ccrosner - We did not stay in Granada - we drove back to Malaga which is an easy drive. Granada seemed like it might have been an interesting place to stay a night though.
Chels - The weather was very pleasant. I took a lined windbreaker and a scarf and was fine. Most days I didn't even need it but it can be chilly at higher elevations and near the water.
As far as Iberia goes - it would take me alot to fly them again. I know I may get some harsh feeback from some but I thought they were just awful on both legs - not helpful, timely or pleasant. I can give you more details if needed.
ArtLover / Amsdon - We did meet some people who were incredibly friendly. My comments were a comparison to our overall impression compared to the many other European countries we have travled to. My husband spent 50% of his time in Europe and Asia for 5 years and had employees in 15 different countries. We are very careful when we travel to be patient and respectful and realize that we are visitors in their country. Other countries have simply been more memorable in the overall welcome we felt while visiting. Portugal for example- which as I said above I will post the trip report shortly - was incredibly warm and welcoming! We all ahve different experiences - that's what makes this sight interesting.
A couple of responses -and sorry I didn't do them sooner - didn't realize I'd gotten responses to the original post.
Ccrosner - We did not stay in Granada - we drove back to Malaga which is an easy drive. Granada seemed like it might have been an interesting place to stay a night though.
Chels - The weather was very pleasant. I took a lined windbreaker and a scarf and was fine. Most days I didn't even need it but it can be chilly at higher elevations and near the water.
As far as Iberia goes - it would take me alot to fly them again. I know I may get some harsh feeback from some but I thought they were just awful on both legs - not helpful, timely or pleasant. I can give you more details if needed.
ArtLover / Amsdon - We did meet some people who were incredibly friendly. My comments were a comparison to our overall impression compared to the many other European countries we have travled to. My husband spent 50% of his time in Europe and Asia for 5 years and had employees in 15 different countries. We are very careful when we travel to be patient and respectful and realize that we are visitors in their country. Other countries have simply been more memorable in the overall welcome we felt while visiting. Portugal for example- which as I said above I will post the trip report shortly - was incredibly warm and welcoming! We all ahve different experiences - that's what makes this sight interesting.
Mar 25th, 2008, 05:07 AM
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Looking forward to the Portugal part. I have been looking for it. We leave for Madrid in a month for a 1st visit to Cordoba, Granada, Seville, and a few days in Lisbon.
Thanks for sharing your travels.
Thanks for sharing your travels.
Mar 26th, 2008, 04:25 AM
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We have just returned from spending two months on the Costa del Sol. We flew to Spain on Iberia and had to change terminals in Madrid to get to Malaga. There is an inter-terminal train. Once we arrived we found the terminal area to be filled with places to eat and/or shop. The flight to Malaga was posted with Gate number and we had no trouble. We are not big fans of Iberia but do not find them to be much worse than any other airline. Most of them are no better than cattle cars and the seating on international flights is an absolute disgrace.
I really enjoyed Merri's comments but I do find the Spanish to be rather friendly and helpful. However, we spent five days in Paris on our return and I found the Parisians to be rather nise as well.
I really enjoyed Merri's comments but I do find the Spanish to be rather friendly and helpful. However, we spent five days in Paris on our return and I found the Parisians to be rather nise as well.
