janisj, I agree that maps are great, but it's not alot of fun for the "navigator" (me!). It's difficult to enjoy the sights when you are constantly having to watch for turns or signs telling you about your turns!

While GPS's aren't perfect, I certainly have been able to relax a lot more on our vacations. And we definitely get lost a lot less WITH the GPS!

Re GPS what you need is the postcode then the GPS can find the spot exactly or to within a couple of hundred yards within a specific road.

So from your example above of the address at Alnwick Castle you put in NE66 1YU. The post code was also on the Langley Castle website.

You can usually find the full postal address on websites, the convention now seems to be to put it on the link called Contact. I think guide books are usually slightly out of date and have not been updated to take account of the needs of GPS or SatNav.

If you have any problems with a postcode being recognised you may have used a capital i or a capital o when in fact is is a 1 (one) or 0 (zero) so just try again. The water feature at Alnwick was recently restored/installed and there was an interesting television programme about the process and getting the funding.

I do agree that a book of maps is also useful as it lets you get a broader perspective. It is a bit like the old arguments about people who could only use calculators and couldn't do a rough calculation in their heads to check the result was in the right range.

>>Could you clarify the difference between Northumbria and Northumberland?<<

Northumbria was the Saxon kingdom extending over a large part of the north-east and border areas. Northumberland is the name of the county covering most of the countryside north of Newcastle up to the Scottish border and west to the Pennines (therefore, as a modern local government unit, not including Newcastle, Gateshead or any of the urban areas around the Tyne estuary, or County Durham or the urban areas around the Tees estuary further south).

So if people use Northumbria nowadays it's usually to mean a more generic area: I'm not quite sure whether the different areas use the generic title to work together on marketing or not (they probably chop and change). There might also be some confusion because, on the other side of the country, the old generic name of Cumbria was adopted for the enlarged and reorganised county of Cumberland.

For most of the practical purposes of a visitor, you needn't worry too much about it.

hi rileypenny,

Just beginning your trip report, so I have not had time to read others opinions about first class vs. standard, and this is just mine, eh?

I used a FC pass last April. FC on a Virgin train ... FUN. FC on others, nice to yawn but comfortable.

If I have an opportunity, I have thought that planning a train travel trip to the locations on Virgin's route would be fun, just to be able to experience their FC again. Cheers!

helen_belsize is correct. Until I started planning for our UK trip, I didn't realize that UK postal codes are specific to a particular address. If you put the postal code into a mapping system like mapquest, etc., it will pull up the exact address of the building you are looking for. Pretty cool.

Great report, rileypenny! And thanks again for letting me know we weren't alone on the Wimbledon thing!

Thanks for the clarification, PatrickLondon.

I didn't even know Virgin had train service, scotlib. I'll look for it.

Helen and betty, I had thought that a post code was all I needed, but twice I tried to enter it and still got "no matches found". After that I stopped trying. Perhaps I did enter a letter in place of a numeral or vice versa. I'm going to try it again.

janisj, I do agree in part and we had a detailed map along, too. There were a couple of times when we overruled the GPS, but I also agree with bettyk, it allowed me to focus on sites and without it, we would have gotten very very lost a few times. It was a lifesaver.

On our last day in England, the Times had a very small news story about a couple from, I think, Sweden, traveling in Italy to the island of Capri. Having mis-entered the information on their GPS,they arrived in a northern Italian town named Carpi. According to an official in Carpi, they weren't even surprised that they hadn't crossed any bridges! So you are right, janisj, don't forget the map!

"Helen and betty, I had thought that a post code was all I needed, but twice I tried to enter it and still got "no matches found". After that I stopped trying. Perhaps I did enter a letter in place of a numeral or vice versa. I'm going to try it again."


Awwww, don't feel bad, rileypenny. I'm sure I was just lucky!!

Day 7: Drive through Moors to Whitby, Ravenscar

At breakfast Andy Williams was back on the sound system. I have no objection to Andy Williams and watched his variety show alot as a kid, just those songs of the 70's.

After breakfast we took the tour of the castle's battlements, which is daily at 10:15. The hotel has a nice pamphlet with the history. You can climb 14 narrow stairs to the very top of two towers and also see the chapel at the top of one tower. This was fun.

Then we set out for the NORTH YORK MOORS via a loop around Newcastle. We took the A170 through Thirsk to Pickering, then up the very scenic A169 through the Moors. The heather had barely begun to bloom but not really. I'm sure that is a stunning sight, and the moors were very interesting anyway. Later the next day a local who was in the garden at the hotel told DH that only one variety of the heather usually blooms in July, and it is not abundant. The primary variety usually blooms in August and is finished by September.

The A169 does not actually go through Goathland, we would have had to divert. I thought we would make it there the next day but we never did. Everyone was starving so we drove on in to Whitby to eat and walk around. The drive from Hexham to Whitby, with some lollygagging to take in the sights, was 2-1/2 hours.

We had the GPS programmed for one of the restaurants that had been recommended in WHITBY. This caused us to drive down into the main harbour area onto streets very crowded with pedestrians. It was not a pedestrian only street but there were two many people for the sidewalks so people were flooding the street and it was not easy to drive. We realized we would never find a place to park down there so we went back up to the public parking by the Abbey and parked. We actually used this lot twice on our visit and it was not hard to walk down into the main town. You must take several steps down and up- -easy unless you have trouble with stairs. This is a pay and display lot that requires one pound coins. There is a decent public restroom at the Abbey entrance that you can use without paying to see the Abbey.

We were too hungry to tour the Abbey now so we took the steps down into the town to find a place still serving lunch. We turned right out of the stairs, walked 20 feet and there, across the street, was one of the restaurants on our list, Greens. We popped in and they were still serving lunch and it was wonderful. First of all, it was nice and calm as opposed to the crowded streets outside. Second, the food was really good with lots of fresh fish options. The fish is sourced from local Whitby trawlers, which are listed on the wall. Most of everything else is locally sourced and it was all good. We lingered there for a while, and decided to go check into the hotel, then come back after dinner to walk around and do a Dracula/ghost walk. One of the owners, Emma Green, was very nice to us and told us where one of the walks started and gave us the numbers for a couple of reliable cabs if we didn't want to drive. This was a Saturday, so that may be one reason why the town was so crowded.

We set the GPS for Ravenscar, home of our hotel, The Raven Hall Hotel. This took us down the A171 about 15 miles south of Whitby. A few miles before the turnoff to the hotel, all traffic came to a stop and we could see on the hill in front of us that there had been a terrible auto accident. We waited for several minutes as emergency vehicles kept arriving. We asked the GPS for a different route but it kept giving us one we could not get to due to the wreck. From our paper map there appeared to be no other solution than to backtrack all the way to Pickering and take the A170. We switched to the map view on the Garmin and found a small road that appeared to bypass the wreck. To find it, we u-turned and turned right toward the coast, then right again on the small bypass road, which became ever increasingly narrow until it was only as wide as one car plus a couple of feet. This combined with the fact that it was hilly and curvy, with tall grass and fences on each side, and we knew that if we met any oncoming traffic at the precisely wrong moment, we would have our own wreck. Plus we were in the middle of nowhere, and the message on the top of the screen that always tells you your current location said "Driving on Road".

Of course, there was lots of oncoming traffic consisting of locals and other people who had GPS. You had to play chicken or you would end up pulled over in some tall grass while 20 cars passed you. We were laughing and totally stressed out at the same time. DH would lightly honk as he approached a turn or crest. Finally, we rejoined the main road, just past the wreck, which was still there.

We arrived at the RAVEN HALL in mid afternoon. The hotel is located high on a cliff overlooking the bay and the village of Robin Hoods Bay, across the bay. The hotel is pretty much all by itself here. We noticed a gorgeous view and a pretty garden between the hotel and the water, checked in and got our third floor room assignment, schlepped our luggage up stairs, through fire doors, to the elevator, which only goes to the second floor. Off the elevator, narrow hallway, fire door, stairs, fire door, to the room. We had two of the standard twin rooms, side by side, which we had reserved in February on booking.com. The hotel had made one of them up as a king. This was our room, 301, and it was just AWFUL. The boys' room (302) was okay, but 301 was almost unrentable in my opinion. This is the kind of room that they should give only to the late night unexpected guest to whom they say, "we're fully booked" and he says, "I'll take anything". The room did have a lovely sea view, but it was a corner "dormer" room, so you could stand up at the head of the bed but if you walked around the foot of the bed you had to bend over. The day was unexpectedly warm and the room was probably about 85 degrees, with only one small pane of glass that opened in it and in the bathroom. The bathroom paint was chipped and there were two vents in the low ceiling with rows of masking tape covering them, and a caved in area in the floor.

I set the bags down and walked down to the front desk, totally covered in perspiration by now, and asked to see another room. Fully booked of course, nothing available. At least, they could move one of the rooms tomorrow. I debated driving back to Whitby or RHB, but DH and I decided to make lemons out of lemonade so we left the awful room and went out to the garden, found a bench, purchased a libation from the bar and stared out at the lovely view. We had chosen this place in part because it had some recreational activities and we figured that the boys would need some of that by now on the trip. They went to the front desk and got putters to try the putting green, but they could also have checked out croquet or lawn bowling equipment, played ping pong, swam in the small indoor pool, or checked out golf clubs. The hotel has its own 9 hole golf course terraced down from the hotel towards the sea, and the view is as good as from any golf course we've played, including those in Hawaii.

The putting green was not so great, so they checked out clubs and balls and set off for the course, while we enjoyed the view and the wine and the pretty weather. We all decided that we did not have the energy to head back to Whitby for dinner so we made a reservation at the Raven Hall for dinner, which was fine. We revisited the front desk to plead for a room change the next day and they told us to come down in the morning, that they thought they would have a lodge room (their newer rooms separate from the hotel) for the next night.

The next morning, I awakened early to visit the front desk and was delighted to hear that they could move us to two studio lodge rooms about noon. I asked the boys if they wanted to see Castle Howard, Goathland, Rivaulx or Jervaulx Abbeys, hike to RHB, see Whitby and its abbey, and they said, "Golf". I thought about arguing for some sightseeing, but I agreed that golf would be fun and they had been troopers, so we decided to play golf, have lunch, move rooms, then drive back to Whitby to tour the abbey and take a ghost tour.

Despite the fact that I knew this meant I would not be seeing Castle Howard, this was a wonderful day. We had so much fun on that golf course. It was a little chillier that day and the wind picked up and the clouds were rolling in, but we didn't get rained on. This was Sunday and we arrived in the restaurant to grab a bite but the restaurant was all decked out for Sunday Carvery, which we learned was a tradition in England and especially here at the hotel, and people come from miles for Raven Hall's Sunday carvery, and they come dressed up. The staff was very nice at this hotel, and made a place for us in the carvery but we realized that we really just wanted a bar bite, and that we were taking a spot that they really could use for a better lunch guest, so we moved to the bar and ordered sandwiches. After this we moved to our new studio lodge rooms. It was like staying at a different hotel. I don't know if 301 is representative of other standard rooms but my advice is to stay in a lodge. A studio lodge sleeps two in a queen bed, has a kitchenette, dining table, two comfy chairs and a semiprivate patio overlooking the sea. It actually cost us less than the charge of the standard hotel room. According to a brochure at the hotel, a studio lodge is 125 to 150 GBP (midweek to weekend) in peak season, not including meals, and a standard room is 80GBP per person per night including breakfast, but through booking.com we had paid 75GBP per person per night. I had heard somewhere that sometimes the purchasers of special rates on booking.com get placed in the worst accommodations. Maybe it's true.

Anyway, back in to Whitby where with audioguide we toured the Abbey, which was marvelous and kind of mystical in a light rain, and the adjacent museum. None of this was crowded and the streets of Whitby were much less crowded on this evening than they had been the day before. After the Abbey I thought we might try Magpie's or Trenchers for dinner, but the whole family had loved Greens so much that they wanted to return for dinner tonight, which was just fine with me. The food was again, fabulous. We started with french fries and "Green's prawn and Whitby crab cocktail with brown bread croutons and bloody mary mix seafood sauce" (8.75) and then I had "Fillets of Whitby's best turbot, pea puree, seared queens, french beans, mashed potato and lemon butter" from the specials board (22.95).

After dinner, we strolled a bit and then found the meeting place, very near Green's, for the "Original Ghost Tour". We had really wanted the Dracula tour, but from its web site it did not appear to be operating on this Sunday night, so we chose this one instead. 4 pounds for adults, one hour long, easy walking, no Dracula but a very interesting and funny guide. The tour ends at a spot where it is just perfect to view the sun setting over the harbour. DS#1 took tons of photos. Also, from where it ends, it is about 15 yards away from the base of the 199 steps up to St. Mary's Church. From the church, you can follow that path around the abbey and get back to the Abbey car park. So, up the steps we went, picturing in our minds the coffins being carried up in Bram Stoker's day. Although there are alot of steps, they are each only about 5 inches tall so we were not too winded at the top. Wow! what a sight: the old church, surrounded by darkened, leaning headstones, setting sun in front and ruined abbey in back, and an intermittent light misty rain. This was spooky and surreal and lots of fun. We walked the path around the now closed abbey, to the car park and drove back to Raven Hall, where the boys watched TV in the room and we went to the (very lively) bar. Even though we didn't do many of the things we had planned to do, we were content that we had all four had a great vacation day together. You have to be glad for what you DID see, rather than what you missed, I've decided.

The next day would be our long drive day, to Chipping Campden.

Greens
13 Bridge Street
Whitby

Raven Hall
Country House Hotel
Lodges and Golf Course
Ravenscar
Scarborough, N. Yorkshire
www.ravenhall.co.uk

I need to correct something from my York post. At the minster, the small pamphlet I used to tour was not free, it was 2 pounds.

"You have to be glad for what you DID see, rather than what you missed, I've decided."

Very wise words, rileypenny!

"Wow! what a sight: the old church, surrounded by darkened, leaning headstones, setting sun in front and ruined abbey in back, and an intermittent light misty rain. This was spooky and surreal and lots of fun."

How cool!

Hi Riley, I liked your comparison of the various 'towers' you've climbed. We've been up the ones you mentioned except for York Minster (hmm, I used to live in York and didn't think to climb the tower!). I agree that the Duomo might feel the most claustrophobic but it's not something I suffer from.
Did you take the elevator part way up at St.Peters? We didn't but I noticed this would considerably cut down on the climb. The Campanile next to the Duomo in Florence is a far easier climb (wider stairway and bigger windows too )than the Duomo and you get a great view of the Dome at the top.

kitten on keyboard...arr
gh

Just wanted to add that I agree that vacation time with teens are very precious and although your trip sounds great sometimes it's the people you travel with that makes it wonderful.

Thanks for the info on other climbs, sassy_cat. DS #2 said yesterday that the two tower climbs, golf, staying in a castle and scones with clotted cream were his favorite memories from the trip. So, we will definitely have to find some more tower climbs. And yes, CAPH 52, I do believe that but I also think, in hindsight, we should have stayed one more night up there so we could have done some of the other things.

Day 8: The drive to Chipping Campden

After breakfast at Raven Hall we packed the car and set out for the Cotswolds. I felt bad about DH having to drive the whole way, but apparently not bad enough to offer to do some of the driving. Actually, this was almost all highway so other than the time, not the hardest driving.

It was quite cool today, not more than 60 degrees, with light rain. THe GPS took us on a very picturesque drive on our way to the A64, through Staintondale and East and West Ayton, through the woods, until we connected with the A64 at Malton.

The GPS predicted a 4 and 1/2 hour drive and it ended up at 4:45 plus stops totalling one hour. I think that National Rail runs from York to Birmingham, and in hindsight, I would have investigated doing this and then renting another car in Birmingham, or taking the train from York to London and out from London to the Cotswolds. Or, ideally, we should have stayed one extra night in Hexham and one extra in Ravenscar, and left the Cotswolds for another trip, returning the car in Manchester and flying out of there or returning the car in York and taking the train to London.

We reached Chipping Campden at 4:30 and despite the fact that we were parked right in front of our hotel, we couldn't see it. That is because it's sign is very hard to see. We finally identified it because of the sign for Juliana's and the sign for Hicks, the two restaurants there. The hotel, The Cotswold House Hotel, lists it's address as "The Square, Chipping Campden". The square is actually not as prominent as most town squares, more like a small rectangle.

The hotel turned out to be a good choice, and Chipping Campden is very quaint. We did change the category of one of our rooms in order to get two rooms together in the Montrose House section of the hotel, because it has air conditioning. We had a nice view out of our window onto the pretty little garden in the back. DH needed to work, the kids wanted to rest so I went downstairs to look around and chatted with some of the staff and Michael Jackson and Princess Diana and Whitby (one of the staffers had just returned from Whitby- his favorite thing? The Magpie, of course, where we did not go). We had dinner at Eight Bells, a pub just a short walk away. The food was great but we waited one hour and 15 minutes for our main course.

For the next day I had nothing specific that I felt we HAD to do but on the list were driving around the Cotswolds, going to Stratford-Upon-Avon, shopping, Hidcote Gardens, going to tea, and possibly Warwick Castle. I didn't have a strong feeling about anything and it felt nice to be somewhere where we could chill a little and not try to pack in the activities. From the list, the boys chose golf. We asked at the front desk and were told that there was a golf club in Broadway, only a few minutes away, and they could take us at 3:15, but each player would have to have golf shoes (we had none), his or her own clubs (we had none, they had three sets to rent), and proper golf attire (we had this). All of the foregoing are very traditional requirements of golf and country clubs --we had gotten off easy at the Raven Hall. So, I decided to back out of golf and stroll Chipping Campden and shop and have tea while they were gone. We hadn't had tea yet and I was sorry that they would miss it.

After breakfast (very good Eggs Benedict at Hicks Brasserie) we walked around, saw the old wool church of St. James (worth a visit), the market hall (also worth seeing) and then found a place that does a tea service at lunch time, so this enabled us to have tea together. It was outstanding, right on the main drag in CC, called Badgers Hall. We had to beat DS #2 back from the scones and clotted cream before he ate it all.

They left for golf a little early to get outfitted with new shoes and I shopped, found an Italian restaurant for dinner, enjoyed the garden and read. They returned with shiny new golf shoes and full of stories and all smiles. They had really enjoyed the round and felt that the price charged for the whole outing was reasonable. The course was beautiful and in terrific condition. They showered and we went downstairs to the bar before leaving for dinner. The hotel bar man made a fabulous Pimm's cup for me, full of chopped strawberries and I think, cucumber. I had never had one and can recommend the one at CHH (didn't catch the price, probably a good thing).

While there the manager suggested we try Juliana's, the "fancy" restaurant at the hotel, instead of going to the Italian restaurant (which the hotel does recommend BTW). I did not think that the Juliana's menu would suit the boys, plus two courses cost 40 pounds. The manager said that he would allow the boys to order off of the Hicks menu. So we allowed ourselves to be persuaded. Again, while in the outer room, you are treated to canapes and asked to place your order. Our starter came right away but once again, we waited FOREVER for our main course. Is this a Cotswold tradition, or did we just look like we wanted to linger? I don't know, but I can tell you I've traveled all over and dined out alot and the time between the starter and the mains was incredibly long at three of our dinners. Juliana's had a nice, small and traditionally British menu. I think that weighing cost and time and taste, I might have chosen to dine at Hicks instead of Juliana's, but I have no idea if it would have been quicker service.

The next day was our return day, and we would leave a little early to drive to at least one other Cotswold town, and then see Oxford University before departing from Heathrow.

Broadway Golf Club
Established 1895
Willersey Hill
Broadway
WR12 7LG
Office: (01386) 853683

I was interested in your slow service remarks.
Personally, I am very suspicious about any place with a very big menu and very fast service.
I always suspect cuisine de microwave ;-)

MissPrism, point well taken. Our food was very fresh. I am likewise very suspicious about any place with a very small, expensive menu and very slow service. I always suspect an understaffed kitchen.

There are practically no Cotswold traditions, except not going in for traditions - which we rather regard as the hallmark of johnny come lately places.

But one recentish common practice, in a region which still has about 1% unemployment, is not hiring staff you don't need.

A 75 minute wait for main courses isn't the sign of fresh food: it's the sign of an understaffed kitchen. Successful local restaurateurs believe strongly in planning for the worst and hoping for the best. This year, that's meant keeping staff numbers low, then being surprised when it turns out they're undermanned.

But then: what else would you have been doing? From the owner's point of view, dilatory service generally means bigger drinks orders. Undermanning is all upside and zero downside.

Oddly, in my own Cotswold town, which gets few visitors but whose eateries depend heavily on us eating, service remains near-instant, because owners don't need to guess in May what trade's going to be like in August. Slow service seems to be a vice of the tourist-oriented establishments in the honeypots.

I guess we have to be a little understanding about the economic situation. I can tell you that the food was good at both places and at the pub the first night, the place was packed, maybe unexpectedly, on a Monday night.

Last Day: Stow on the Wold, Oxford, Heathrow

We had purchased international plans for the cell phones, which we will now cancel, and along with it, the smallest international data plan, so that we could at least call each other if we got separated and could keep up with things at home. By now, the kids had exceeded their maximum usage on the data and therefore out of touch with their friends, but for when we found free wifi and they could email. This, combined with the fact that the "clean clean", "semi-clean" and "too dirty to wear again" were all getting thrown in the luggage together, can only mean that it must be time to go home.

We meandered through the Cotswolds, eventually reaching Stow-On-The-Wold, which looked like it might have also been a good base for the area, then headed on to OXFORD. We found a pay and display within walking distance of the university and saw bits of a couple of different colleges, then focused on Christ Church college, which is rich with history. Lewis Carroll was a math tutor here and John Wesley, William Penn and 13 prime ministers attended. We visited the dining hall, which is impressive and where the Hogwarts dining scenes were filmed. The Picture Gallery was closed. We walked around a little but really needed to find a quick bite to eat and make our way to Heathrow. Wish we would have spent more time here.

Of course, we ended up leaving Oxford later than we wanted, and the directions for returning the car at Heathrow were more vague than we had hoped. Plus there are a few roundabouts that come right after each other as you approach Heathrow that each have about 40 exits and I botched one of them, which sent us out of our way to reconnect with the right road. This also meant that now three people were shouting directions to DH at each roundabout because I had been deemed unable to accurately track the little car on the screen to the little purple route line. It isn't hard to navigate a small roundabout when there aren't large trucks to your left who are also in the roundabout and block your view.

The bottom line is that we were in danger of not checking in for our flight within a 90 minute window of departure and DH is starting to melt down. Once we got into Heathrow proper, the signage for rental car return is good, so that was not an issue. Car return was simple.

We were departing out of Terminal 5, and we had to take a shuttle specifically directed to Terminal 5. Once dropped off there, you have to take an elevator up and when we got off, it wasn't immediately clear where we should go to check in. DH is really melting down and we end up at a check-in kiosk, which won't print one of the boarding passes. Anyway, let's just say, it was confusing there and we should have left Oxford earlier. We actually probably checked in for our flight about 75 minutes prior, checked the bags 5 minutes after that, and got through security about 15 minutes after that. All of our bags made it. After we got through security, we used the restroom and then went straight to the gate, where we were bussed out to the plane. Not late but no time to spare.

The equipment back to Toronto was a 777 and we again really enjoyed BA.

This was a great trip with so many highlights. We benefitted from lots of tips on this site and are very grateful for them. I hope we can return, especially to the north.

Thanks for sharing your adventures, rileypenny. I enjoyed it very much.