Anna1013

ssander,

Thanks for putting up your trip report, and I'm glad that all of you had a great time. I think it's really nice that you were able to travel with friends(and still stay friends) who were unfamiliar with the area.

My DS and I might, and it's a very big might, go to Europe with our parents. Any tips, either during preparation or the trip itself, that you could offer for those traveling with friends/family?

I noticed you took the bus alot - do you prefer that over the tube? I've heard so many positive comments of taking the bus instead of the tube, but I do find the idea of understanding how it works daunting.

ssander

RE: Travelling with friends

These were very good friends with whom we have shared an apartment at the beach for a week every year for the past twenty years or so (our kids were good friends when they were young). We know each other well, and our arguments, when they occur, are always about trivial things. I think traveling with friends works out if you know each other well enough to accurately assess when you need to have time apart during the trip.

SS

flanneruk

Anna1013:

Try this simple rule of thumb for buses:

1. The route network is extraordinarily complex. Trust anyone who tells you how easy it is to depend entirely on buses just like you'd trust a computer geek who tells how easy automating your life will be. That is: not in a million years

2. So don't assume you'll rely 100% on buses.

3. But every bus stop in central London has phenomenally clear directions and maps. After investing 5-10 mins at the beginning of your stay getting the hang of the maps, make a point for each new journey of checking at the stop you're at whether the journey is easily doable by bus.

4. If it is, wait for the next bus. (HINT: trust the GSM displays at the stop for when the next bus will arrive: not the printed ttable). If you can't work out how to do the bus journey, get the tube.

ssander

RE: Using the bus


Here are some bus tips. I do not pretend to be an expert, and I welcome additions/corrections from others:

- Bus vs. tube: This is a tough call. It depends on traffic, distance, time of day, and routes. For that you need a little experience and a good study of the maps.

- Generally, don't use the bus for a long trip…tube is always faster.

- Look at the traffic. London’s congestion fee has cut the traffic in the city center a lot, but you still need to be aware of when the buses will be really slow.

- Use the “spider maps”. At most stops, they have maps showing all the routes radiating out. You can quickly see which buses go to your destination. These maps are also available in PDF format on the TFL (Transport for London - http://www.tfl.gov.uk/) site. Download and study the major stop nearest your hotel. Example: We stayed near Victoria station and used this spider map: http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/gettingaro...toria-2277.pdf

- Be aware that some stops the buses only stop to pick up passengers “on request.” You have to hold your hand out and flag down the bus as it approaches, or it will drive right by. I can’t remember which is which, but one has a red sign with white insignia and the other has a white sign with red insignia.

- We have an Oyster card. It’s typical of load-up cards in major US cities, such as DC. When we arrive, we load it up with a week-pass for zones 1-2 (which cover nearly all major sights). Then we just hold it near the yellow reader as we get on the bus — you don’t even have to remove it from your wallet; just hold the wallet near. I believe the cards cost 5 GBP but include 5 GBP of credit which you can apply to your week pass, so they are essentially free.

- Sometimes the slower bus ride can be better than the tube, if you are tired and need to sit down and relax between sights, especially if the tube ride involves some walking to/from the stop (bus stops are everywhere) and a long-walk transfer between lines. For this decision, you need some experience with the tube lines.

Hope this helps.

Carrybean

<i>&quot;I don't think there's anything wrong with riding the bus from Harrods to V&amp;A, esp given that you have the 7-day pass! I would have done the same.&quot;</i>

Chill out, yk. Nowhere did I say there was anything &quot;wrong&quot; with taking the bus. I was surprised they bothered with the bus judging from the amount of walking they had done on the first day.

TDudette

How was Tate? It was being rebuilt when DH and I visited London some years ago. I really want to see some Sargent paintings there-are they in the Modern?

Enjoyed &quot;revisiting&quot; a wonderful city with your TR!

yk

Carrybean - It wasn't a criticism directed against your comment. I guess I should have put a at the end of my comment yesterday. I was just saying I would have done the same if my feet were tired and I had a travelcard.

Anna -
Steve has explained the bus system very well already. Just my 2 cents:
I'm a huge fan of taking the bus in London as it is far more interesting than the tube. Other pluses include:
1) Less walking involved compared to the tube. Esp if the tube involves a change, you'll never know how far you have to walk at the interchange station.
2) I dislike the feeling of &quot;disoriented&quot; when I come out of a tube station, not knowing which way is N/S/E/W.
3) Bus is cheaper than a tube ride, if you are using Oyster PAYG
4) Some destinations aren't served by the tube (or at least the station isn't close enough).

They have done some remarkable improvements on the bus system in the last several years, making the bus much more user-friendly:
1) Like steve said, most of the bus stops have a map showing which routes stop there and where they go.
2) All the buses now have an LED screen inside showing you (with announcements) what the next stop is, so you can know in advance to ring the bell for your stop.

Having said that, I won't take the bus IF I'm in a hurry, and/or IF I need to cover a long distance.

ssander

TDudette...

I really don't like the Tate Modern very much..a lot of wasted space (a fact) and a small amount of really good art (an opinion).

No Sargent's at all...I believe they're in Tate Britain (Millbank), which we did not go to this time.

I think the Cortauld has better 20th c. art -- though I admit I prefer the first half of the centuray to the second...love the Fauves and Expressionists.

Don't get me wrong -- I like a lot of the non-objective and abstract expressionist stuff, but I tend to discount any art I can paint myself with a gallon of Easy Living Interior Satin Latex and a $5 roller purchased at Sears. Just MHO.

SS

yk

Oh, I have to say, I LOVE Tate Modern. but that's just my taste. Definitely no Sargent.. you should come here to Boston for Sargents.

Courtauld's &quot;modern&quot; section is very different from Tate Modern's &quot;modern&quot;. Courtauld's work are mainly turn of century, whereas Modern's works are a bit more recent than that.

ssander

YK...

One more thing I forgot to mention about Southern Railway. Since we had four people, we got to get our train tickets half-price with the Group Save option...but what was amazing, was that we were still able to use the 2-for-1 attraction coupons, essentially combining two special offers.

This hardly ever happens with special offers, coupons, etc. I expected it not to be allowed, so I emailed Southern before we left the USA to be sure we could take advantage of both discounts. (I didn't want to buy the group-save tix at Gatwick and then find out later that the attraction coupons would not be accepted.)

They replied promptly with the response I'd hoped for.

I l-o-v-e Southern!!

SS

Anna1013

ssander, flanner, yk - thanks for all your tips on using the bus. Are the GSM displays sort of like the digital signs for tubes telling you it's coming in 1 minute? It's things like needing to ring a bell to get off(yes, I am that stupid when it comes to public trans. - I'm guessing they just pass by a stop if no one rings the bell) or how to scan a card to get on the bus that I need to know.

As yk said, getting out of the tube disorients me also, and I like that fact that I can at least still see parts of London on the bus.

TDudette

Thanks for the Tate and Boston info. Am wild about Sargent after seeing a huge exhibit in D.C. some years ago.

ssander

Anna1013...

(1) Yes, those stops that have displays do give a time approximation for the next bus.

(2) You are correct...they will pass a stop if one buzzes to get off AND if no one is at the stop waiting to get on. However, the display at the front of the bus indicates if anyone on the bus has buzzed, so you know that the bus will stop.

(3) I, also, sometimes get disoriented exiting an unfamilar tube stop. To help, check the neighborhood maps inside most stops. The exits are often numbered, so you can follow the signs to your desired exit. They also show most attractions/buildings.

(4) As a tourist, the upper levels of the buses are the greatest. This makes bus-riding in London so much more fun than in Rome or Paris.

One thing, though -- some Paris buses have GPS screens showing exactly where the bus is on the map -- great for tourists! Does anyone know if this is planned for London?

SS

yk

To add a few more points re:buses

1) Not all bus stops have the LED displays showing when the next bus will arrive. Usually the busy stops in central areas do, but smaller stops that serve 1-2 lines don't.

2) The LED displays INSIDE the buses will show the next stop as soon as the bus departs the current stop, giving you enough time to ring the bell for the next stop. There are LED displays on both levels of the buses, in case of the double deckers.

3) For popular routes along busy areas, the buses pretty much have to stop at every stop anyway due to # of people getting on/off.

4) At the bus stop, apart from a map showing the routes of the bus lines that stop there, there are also bus schedules, so you can tell how long you'd have to wait (if no LCD display is there). Buses tend to run less frequent on weekends, and if you're out late, check if the bus is still running. If not, the bus stop also has a map for the NIGHT buses (which run all night long) which you can take.

BTW, Anna, if you have taken the buses in Paris, the ones in London aren't that different (in terms of procedures and complexity). I have been taking buses in London for years, but I was always scared to take buses in Paris. Finally I did on my last trip in Paris, and it was SO EASY!. So, I think you don't need to worry much, esp when everyone in London speaks English and you can always ask the driver when you get on to make sure you're on the right bus. If you miss your stop, just get off the next one. The stops are rarely too far apart (unlike the tube!)

Lastly, I especially prefer taking the bus during rush hour. I find the tube tends to be packed to the gills during this time, which is rather unpleasant. Buses don't nearly get as crowded.

SandyBrit

ssander:

Well done - thanks for sharing.

Sandy