We are in the earliest planning stages of a trip to Portugal. In our minds, we had envisioned traveling Lisbon, the surrounding area and then heading to southern Portugal. We have read several guide books. After this reading, it seemed as if we may enjoy northern Portugal more (after Lisbon and the surrounding area). There was no specific reason that we first envisioned the south other than that is what we had heard the most about. We are interested in churches, castles and historical sites. We enjoy smaller towns rather than large cities and restaurants where few people are speaking English. We don't stay in fancy places, but do prefer to have our own room with bath. Our past trips have relied on rail/public transportation in and between large cities and doing our own driving in more rural areas. I'm interested in itineraries that you have used in Portugal. At this early stage, I'm a bit conflicted as to whether to stick to just Portugal (tour the north and south) and leave Spain for another trip or to tour northern Portugal and Spain and leave the south of both countries for another time. I am especially interested in anyone's first-hand experience with northern Portugal. We would plan to travel for approximately 2 weeks in either March/April (avoiding Easter) or October/November. I'm looking forward to your responses and believe I've included most of the basics that seem to be helpful when people request information. But please ask if there is something I have left out. Thank you.

Lucky you!! <BR>Last August I spent two weeks traveling in Lisbon and Northern Portugal. We also considered going to Southern Portugal but decided to go North because it seemed more interesting and because I didn't want to go to the beach (I live on the East Coast so it isn't a novelty). If you do decide to go south, particularly to the Algarve, do a lot of research as to which towns you stay in because I've heard that some are great but others are completely developed and overrun with tourists. <BR>The North was wonderful - not touristy, very interesting and in the summer much cooler. <BR>We started in Lisbon and took trains the whole time because for some reason I can't remember now, we didn't want to rent a car. If you don't mind driving I'd recommend renting a car because the train was fine but it did cut down on our flexibility and many of the towns you can enjoy in an afternoon or morning. With a car you can see a couple in a day. <BR>We flew into Lisbon and spent 3-4 days there. It was a great city but is somewhat run down so I think that if we had had less time there I wouldn't have been able to appreciate the many museums, stores, etc. and would have been turned off by the fading facade. If you are in Lisbon be sure to take the street car (or taxi) to Belem and see the tower, amazing monestary and nautical museum. Also, we took a day trip to Sintra (about 45 minutes away) but I wished that we had stayed overnight there because there is a lot to see and the town itself is very charming. <BR>From Lisbon we took the train to Obidos, a small town, and stayed overnight there. If you plan to go there, try to stay at the Pousada. It was booked by the time we tried to reserve but had a nice meal there. <BR>Next we went to Coimbra which I really enjoyed. IT is a medieval university town. I loved walking around there. Very untouristy. We spent a couple days there and then went to Porto. Porto was great and should be even better now because since I went the city has done a lot of construction to improve infrastructure, the waterfront, etc. This year Porto is the European city of the year (or some sort of honor) for which the whole city has been renovated. We planned to visit the Duoro Valley while we were there but the trains were on strike. <BR>0ur trip to the North was great and there was lots more that I we would have done if we had more time or had rented a car. I can't remember the names of the other places I wanted to visit but I recommend buying the Eyewitness Travel book for Portugal to look at the photos and get an idea of the places you are interested in. <BR>A can't speak for the south but northern portugal was wonderful. I have traveled a fair bit in Europe that was one of my favorite trips. The people are incredibly nice, almost everyone speaks English, the food is great, sites are beautiful (and somewhat undiscovered) and at least when we went, everything was very cheap. <BR>Have a great time! <BR> <BR>

The previous response is right on. All of the cities Ilene mentionned were wonderful and shouldn't be missed, especially Sintra, only a 40 min. train ride from Lisbon. I had the opportunity to travel to both northern and southern Portugal. Although I saw some breathtaking views in the south, the north was much less treaded on and beautiful. There are plenty of castles and cathedrals there as well as some beautiful hiking trails. If I were you, I would spend less time in Lisbon (two days was enough for us) and head north in a car. Although the rail service was good, it will be much faster going by car. I must say, if you do go into Spain (which we did as well but we had a whole month) you MUST go to Gibralter. We snuck in and rang in the new year and watched the first sunrise of 2001. It was the most beautiful moment I have ever experienced (even though it was illegal). In the morning on our treck down the hill we had monkeys playing aroung our feet, it was great!!! So, you can't really go wrong no matter where you go but the sights are non stop in the north and the south is a little more broken up and WAY more busy. By the way, bring rain gear with you, no matter what time of year it rains. Be prepared and it won't disturbe you. Have a GREAT time.

We spent two weeks in Portugal in late September/early October of 1997. Found beautiful scenery but were not completely prepared for what a third world country it is in rural areas. Saw women in their 70's or 80's pulling carts with firewood, not your average French or German tourist experience. We were in both north and south and found them equally interesting with some advantage to the north. <BR> <BR>Outside of Lisbon we visited both the Palace National in Queluz and the palace at Sintra. Also enjoyed Disney-like Pena Palace outside Cascais, near Lisbon. Liked Faro in southern Portugal. Took side trip from there to Sevilla, Spain. Found it interesting that the roads become immediately better as you leave Portugal and enter Spain. Loved Sevilla and have since revisited (though we've not returned to Portugal, I guess that says something.) Stopped in Evora to see Diana temple but could have skipped it. Definitely found the east coast resort of Figguerria de Foz a bust but saw two magnificent monasteries driving between Evora and Fig Foz--Alcobaca where Pedro the Cruel and his mistress Inez are burried foot to foot and Batalha, resting place of Henry the Navigator, his parents and siblings. Like another responder, we enjoyed Coimbra, especially seeing the university students in swinging black capes which is apparently their fraternity garb or some such. The highlight of our trip was Bucaco and the former hunting palace of the king. You must drive through a forest whose trees are protected by papal edict in order to get there. It has its own cloistered convent. The palace itself is spectacular, a jewel of manueline architecture (columns that look like woven ropes, lots of pointed arches, etc.) that was given to the king's chef when the king was deposed. The chef opened it as a hotel and the furniture from the era is still holding up in the rooms. Stairways have blue-tiled walls with pictures of historical scenes. The dining room has a second-story stone balcony with arched windows. It's a fairy-tale come true. Although you said you prefer to stay in inexpensive hotels, if you splurge once in your trip, even once in your life on a hotel, let it be this one. We paid just over $200 for one nightand it was worth much more. Our room was mammoth (with very nice, modernized bathroom)and the whole experience was one of a kind. We left there and finished our visit in Porto, a very old and very new city. It feels infinitely more modern than Lisbon and much more vibrant, though the waterfront with its port (as in wine) boats looks ancient. <BR> <BR>As I read back over my trip diary, I come to the last day and find the following: "We leave Portugual (most likely never to return--interesting but non-competitive in the great European country sweepstakes)" For me what I said then is still true today, except if I could find a way to just drop into the Palace Hotel in Bucaco. I'd return there in a heartbeat. All of that said, if you are going to Portugal, you will find it interesting and very beautiful in some places, with especially beautiful and ornate churches. It is also sad to see that the churches are so well endowed while so many of the people are so poor. To answer your questions, on the whole we found the North better than the south and if you can, break up your exploration of Portugal with some time in Spain.

In my opinion, the south of Portugal can offer you some beautiful sceneries and a wonderful stretch of coast, but if you are planning to take trains you will find difficult to get to them. On the other hand, if you are looking for architecture, art and charming old villages, the north overpass by far the south part. These are some of the places I enjoyed most during our 1995 trip there ( I guess some places are now even better ): <BR> <BR>Viana do Castelo: nice old town with a magnificent beach in the outskirts ( Praia do Cabedelo ) and stunning views from Sta Luzia Mountain over the Lima River Mouth. <BR> <BR>Guimaraes: Small city packed with beautiful buildings and old cobblestone streets. Delicious food at Pousada Sta MAria de Oliveira ( Try Arros de Pato ). <BR> <BR>Bom Jesus Sanctuary, close to Braga: if not crowded with pilgrims it is a beautifully landscaped area with the most renowmed Baroque staircase in Portugal. <BR> <BR>Solar de Mateus, close to Vila Real. Home of famous wines and a beautiful palace. <BR> <BR>Amarante: nice town <BR> <BR>Serra da Estrela area: gorgeous area with some waterfalls and deep rocky valleys. <BR> <BR>Bucaco/Conimbriga, close to Coimbra: both quite interesting, a forest with a neomanuelin style hotel inside and the roman ruins. <BR> <BR>The bridges of Porto, wherever you look at them. ( beautifully illuminated at night ), the wineries in Gaia and some richly decorated baroque churches. <BR> <BR>Batalha/Alcobaca: Must sees for everyone interested in gothic architecture. The golden stone of Batalha especially looks beautiful with the low sun in the late afternoons. <BR> <BR>Nazare: the view from O Sitio ( upper town )is likely to be the most striking in the whole Portugal, the lighthouse are is also really scenic. <BR> <BR>Sintra: Lush forests and romantic castles and palaces make this area quite interesting to spend some time there. Cabo de Roca/Guincho area is always wild and windy but the landscape is worth the trip. <BR> <BR>Tomar: monumental town with a gem in Portuguese architecture, the Convento de Cristo. <BR> <BR>I guess all these places may not be reachable by train, since the train network is not extended everywhere. <BR> <BR>Hope it can be useful for your planning stage. <BR> <BR> <BR>

We spent 9 days in Northern Portugal last September. Our first two were in Lisbon, and if I had to do it over again I would instead stay in Sintra and visit Lisbon by train one day, spending at least one day in Sintra itself. Sintra is gorgeous and has lots to see. Lisbon has lots to see but isn't gorgeous. <BR> <BR>From there, we went to Obidos. Like the 1st poster said, stay at the pousada there. It's a former castle from medieval times; our room (a suite) was actually one of the castle's towers! As far as accommodations go, it was the best of the trip. You're tiptoeing up these teeny-tiny stairs to your room in the tower of a castle, which is itself situated on top of a hill. With the wind blowing at night, it was quite dramatic! <BR> <BR>From Obidos, we moved onto Coimbra for the day and then the Palace Hotel at Bucaco that night. While it was also an unusual choice of accommodation, I wasn't quite as in love with it as a previous poster. And I kind of felt like we cheated ourselves out of some Coimbra time so we'd have time in Bucaco. Once we got there, there really wasn't much to do: you can stroll the gardens and trails, but that wasn't really what we had come to Portugal to do. But I do agree that our room there was enormous (the bathroom was bigger than the bedroom in our current apartment!). <BR> <BR>Next we drove to Porto. Here we stayed at the Infante de Sagres. It's a beautiful hotel, but note that while we were there construction in the street made the approach a bit of a mess. Perhaps it's over by now. But regardless, there was no noise in the room. <BR> <BR>We didn't see that many of the local Porto sites, instead focusing our time on the caves (where the port manufacturers are) of Vila Nova de Gaia. Our favorite was Taylor's, which had a fantastic view of the city. <BR> <BR>From there, we drove to Guimaraes for the day and then on to Lamego, which is in the Douro Valley. We stayed at one of the Quintas (where port wine comes from), which was a really interesting experience (and very inexpensive). There happened to be a major festival going on in the town, with parades and fireworks to boot, so we really got to see the local culture. <BR> <BR>From there, we did a major drive to Crato, near the Spanish border. We stayed at another pousada here, which was in a former monastery. We enjoyed it, but had we realized how far away it was we probably wouldn't have gone there. <BR> <BR>Our last night was in Sintra, which as I said before was wonderful and charming. We stayed at the equally wonderful and charming Quinta da Capela. <BR> <BR>Most of our lodging picks came from Karen Brown's Portugal guide, which was a fantastic resource. <BR> <BR>As far as driving goes, we didn't find it difficult at all. There were good highways and roads, signs were well marked, and drivers were fine. The one time we were lost, we stopped at a convenience store, where an English speaking cop set us back on course. There was lots more English spoken by locals in Portugal than we expected, especially considering that we ran into so few English-speaking tourists! And distances are generally very close (depending on your itinerary, of course), so you don't spend that much time each day in the car.

Hello, xxx <BR>We rented a car for two of the three weeks we spent in Portugal. We visited all the cities that have been mentioned thus far. Portugal is very small and it is easy to tour. <BR>The northern part of Portugal is so superior to the southern area. The southern area is overbuilt with hotels and fast food places. The northern area is serene with vineyards, rolling hills, olive farms and so on. <BR>You should have a car, however, as you would be very limited if you travel by train or bus. We enjoyed having the car and felt immense freedom. We would find a city, use it as a base for a couple of days and then move on. We were at the end of March when it was very quiet. <BR>I would return to Portugal in a heartbeat. It is different than other parts of Europe, although Lisbon reminded me of Prague. I think it is the gritty, older feel of the city. You may walk for blocks on end and see these marvelous buildings covered with the Azulezoes. <BR>In the countryside, near Sintra, we found a shop where an artist paints azulejos for restoration of churches or decoration of new buildings. We had him custom paint a sign for us. We were there long enough to pick it up, but, he would have sent it to us. <BR>Have a wonderful trip! <BR>Gloria

Gloria, I must beg to differ on the Algarve...we stayed in a lovely small fishing village near Lagos and LOVED it. Could not have been less touristy. But I agree that you will not have as muc fun if you stick to the big tourist centers. Of course! <BR> <BR>Marlena

Lots of good comments here. Frankly, though, the area of Portugal we enjoyed the most wasn't the north or the south, but the east. The Alentejo region, east of Lisbon (Evora is on the western edge I suppose) is a golden, rather stark big-sky landscape with gorgeous hill villages and the odd castle, standing stone circles, wonderful white-and-blue domestic architecture, horses, olive groves and eucalyptus plantations, big vistas, storks, goats and Roman ruins, the real deal. Felt like a very different country from the green north or the shoals of tourists in the south. <BR> <BR>A word about driving in Portugal, though, and that word is yikes.

xxx--- you have gotten great advice, I have rarely seen such a compendium of great info for Portugal under one post. For what is worth, I would like to reiterate Pedro's suggestion on Viana do Castelo. Stay at the Hotel Santa Lucia, it is just breathtaking. Also to reiterate John's warning about the Portuguese drivers; they are very agreesive drivers. Just let them go their way. A lot of Northern Portugal remains very much undiscovered, to experience it now is probably a great idea before it gets "discovered". With two weeks, if you go into Viana, it may be even worth your while to stretch out to Santiago de Compostela (we drove to Viana from Santiago (about 100 miles or 2 hours)). Vigo is a great city in between for a lunch break. There was a toll booth (about 5 USD). MArch-April may be a bit rainy, we were there the third week of May and needed sunscreen every day. Have a great time.

Maria and I are both big fans of Viana do Castelo in northern Portugal. Wonderful place and as she said, you must stay at the pousada Santa Lucia. It is at the top of the hill. From the balcony of our room, we overlooked the town, the beautiful cathedral (a short walk from the pousada), the river and the ocean! We loved it. My favorite small town is Caminha, just a few miles north of Viana. The main road goes around, rather than, through the town, making it seem even more from another century. It's a lovely place. <BR> <BR>We geared our day trips from Viana based on market days in the surrounding towns. We always bought wine, bread and cheese for frequent picnic dinners (in our room) because restaurant lunch portions were dinner sized. We were amazed at the amount of food served at lunch. <BR> <BR>Driving in Portugal is not bad at all. We have done two, one week driving trips with no problems at all. Yes, the locals drive fast, so pull over and let them go. We didn't do much night driving, can't see the countryside then. Driving time from Lisbon airport to Viana do Castelo is 4 1/2 hours. Both of our trips to northern Portugal have been in early to mid Nov, '98 and '99, and we will be there again this Nov. Very few tourists and we had great weather on both trips. Enjoy!

Hi, I see your question has triggered a boost of passion from all the visitors who have loved their experience in Portugal. We just came back from a two-week trip and although the country may seem very small, 2 wks is not long enough to really visit. I think you should plan Spain for another time. Portugal already has very much to offer. You won't be bored. <BR> <BR>We landed in Porto. Our travel agent was Portuguese and told us to stay away from the Algarve as we weren't looking for something touristy with beaches and golf courses. <BR> <BR>We did not regret this. We went from Porto to Lisbon, visiting little cities here and there in between. We spent three full days in Porto and could easily have stayed longer. We didn't have time to see many Porto cellars (only three) and would have liked to take the boat trip up the Douro (approx. 98$ canadian and it takes a full day). We then rented a car and went to Braga, Aveiro,Buçaco, Leira, Fatima, Peniche, Evora, Lisboa and Sintra. The only place you don't want to go to is Leira. If you can avoid this boring city, do... <BR> <BR>We were completely charmed with each other place we visited, Lisboa also. <BR> <BR>We loved our trip. If you need additional information as to where to stay, etc. I'd be glad to answer.

Wow--I am amazed at the wonderful and complete responses for Portugal. I too have done it twice and concur with most of the above. It would take 3 weeks to see it all. Portugal is the last place in western Europe that you will find true old world authenticity. Enjoy !

Thanks everyone for your replies. I am the original poster of the question. Our very tentative plans (as we are looking at this for a fall 2002 or spring 2003 trip) are to visit Lisbon and Northern Portugal and Madrid and those areas easily accessible from the city. Although we will unfortunately leave many areas untouched, it seems as if these areas best meet our needs. Plus, then there is a "good" reason to return!! Another factor is trying to get direct flights. This was a consideration for us even before the recent tragedy. We both hate having to change planes. I believe we will fly ORD-Heathrow or ORD-Frankfurt to spend some time with our relatives before flying into Lisbon. Hopefully, we can fly direct Madrid-ORD on the return home. Does anyone have any comments regarding spring (Feb.-Apr. avoiding Easter) or fall (late Oct.-Nov.) We've done most of our travel in the off season enjoying the reduced crowds and prices.

we are planning a spring trip to portugal-why avoid easter?

I wouldn't think of goint to Portugal and NOT go to Lisboa. It is one of the most amazing cities in Europe. The person that said it isn't gorgeous must be myopic. The beautiful Tagus, blue sky, and Manueline architecture are sublime. The people are so hypnotic with their dark hair and eyes. The cafes are wonderful and the Gulbenkian Museum is world class. From Lisboa, you can visit Cascais and Sintra. Sintra is lovely and traquil--the air smells like perfume. Cascais is sunny, breezy and has beautiful views of the sea. It is a small resort with pokey shops and cafes. I have been to Lisboa many times and have friends who live there. I highly recommend it.

Our two major reasons for avoiding Easter are crowds and prices. We usually travel without reservations except in major cities. With Easter being a holiday time, accomodations can be harder to find without having prior reservations and attractions are likely to be more crowded. Things are usually higher priced as well. Avoiding travel during holidays and high season is simply our preference.

We have travelled both north and south, and I hope that you will have an opportunity to see both. If language is a problem for you, I would suggest the south, where English is almost always spoken, but the north has some wild country, and is by far more interesting. We usually stayed at Pousadas or used Karen Brown's Book, Inns and Pousadas of Portugal, and she never steered us wrong. She also includes some suggested itineries, which were of use to us. she give very detailed descriptions of the suggested places to stay, plus details of the people, etc. We stayed several days in Sintra which was a highlight of the trip. last trip we went to the Algarve and stayed near Sagres for 4 weeks, hiring a car and exploring the hinterlands...a wonderful time.