julie

I have travelled almost everywhere, and lived several different places in the world, including Saudi ARabia. Aside from the different scenery and customs, and cultural differences, my one observation has been how very much alike we all are, in what we want for our children, whom we choose to love, how we perceive the world at large, and what we care about. This has been the most profound lesson of my life, and I will never look at people the same way again. Does anyone share this feeling?

Enid

Yes, I can agree wholeheartedly with you, Julie. I can't exactly remember what the interior of Africa looked like, but I can remember that the people I met were kind to me, very considerate etc, in China I have forgotten to smog and remembered all the Grandmother's who were proudly parading their grandbabies about, all dressed up, or Madrid, when it was Father's day,and the dads came to the park in record numbers without their kids, to give mom a day off, or the folks in southern France who stopped to great us while we were enjoying a road side picnic. It's the people!

Laura

Hi Julie, <BR> <BR>I agree with you....to a point. Where we part company is something I have learned from this board, and that is your statement that we are all alike in how we perceive the world at large. <BR> <BR> Too many of us are hostile towards other populations in other countries....if we could only mend the gap and create understanding and tolerance...then maybe wars would end and ....maybe even this forum would become a more welcoming haven....Peace

Mother of daughters

I disagree. Some cultures so devalue the life of a female that it is okay with them to leave a newborn baby girl in the woods to die. In Saudia Arabia, as you know, women cannot drive. I want more for my daughters. We are very different in that respect.

nancy

Wow! <BR> we are getting so philosophical here, I guess I'll add my <BR>100Lira. <BR>Yes,Motherofdaughters, <BR>we all want more than what you stated <BR>( the inequality of women, in a good many societies, andf the devaluing of human life.) for our children. <BR> <BR>But, I have learned from a growing friendship, with a woman from Kuwait, is how close we really are in so many things, even though we are from such different cultures. <BR>She says that <BR>"I am from the land of hot and many restrictions, and you are from the land of green and freedom" <BR> <BR>It is true, and although we differ on certain things , politics, religion, and immigrants, we have more in common, as just humans , than we do differences. <BR>I have learned that I need to respect her culture, and her way of life <BR>(an upper-class old family woman, who was not allowed to leave the country for college, and is not allowed to work out of the home, and who has told me , she hopes her husband never chooses another wife) <BR>and not create friction with her, or try to demean her way of life. <BR>This is not to say that if this person, or any other person came out with bigoted , prejudiced remarks, that I would keep silent. <BR>But, there are ways to stand up for what one believes, without having to denigrate the other person or culture. <BR> <BR>But, what I really had in mind to say, before I read the above postings was <BR>what I have learned is to <BR>"go with the flow"

julie

Yes, SAudi is very restrictive, from our view as western women, and yet the Saudi ladies I met actually feel sorry for US. They do have to worry about who will care for them if needed, what their value is, they do not have to go out in a hostile world and make their way, they do not ever understand why a woman might turn to prostitution, why women are alone and have no family support, and why women in our culture have no value. THis is not to support their point of view (all females are the responsibility of first the father,then the husband,and lastly, a son, or if refused by a husband, then back to the father. They do not go begging, nor wonder what their place is in society. Not to saytheiy are right, but it is their culture,and the ladies I knew would not change places with us, but feel really sorry for us~! There!! see how different we are.

Dave

Travel's most important lessons: <BR> <BR>1. Good shoes are priceless <BR>2. Adequate plumbing is one of civilization's greatest accomplishments <BR>3. Mind-altering drugs cannot possibly compare to the rush of taking an overnight flight, a five-hour train ride, and then walking three miles to your B&B while asking directions in a foreign language. <BR>4. Castles are cool! <BR>5. I don't care whether I'm a "traveller" or a "tourist" as long as I'm NOT AT WORK!!! <BR>6. Mind The Gap <BR>7. Travel may be enlightening, but it unfortunately does not make one better looking. <BR>8. Of all measures of national greatness, pastry is the most underrated. <BR>9. All stereotypes are true. <BR>10. All stereotypes are false.

xxx

Excellent answer, Dave!

Katherine

Brilliant Dave! I can only include one thing: calories consumed where a foreign language is spoken don't count.

Sarah

I have traveled over many areas of the globe and while your passage does sound very sweet, I think what I want for my daughter and what someone wants for their daughter in the Sudan is very different. Yes we are all people impacted by our culture and here in the U.S. you have people that do not look beyond what is taught to them for ways to live. I think women are completely oppressed on some parts of the globe. Through reading you can see how some scholars (Nawal Al Sadawi,(Egypt) being one) have shown this alienates men and women from each other. I think how we are allowed to interact does effect how we love each other. Gender issue aside I think different cultures have different ideas about what it means to have harmony in your life if you are in a culture that engages the idea of harmony at all. <BR> <BR> We are different in what our cultures have taught us to prize. <BR>

dan woodlief

I also feel that cultures separate people. We are all conditioned by the prejudices of our cultures, our education, and other factors to act and think in certain ways. I do think there are certain basic human qualities that we all share, but our upbrining brings them out in different forms. What I have learned is how alike children are. Sure, they have their own differences based on culture, but at that point they have more in common than adults. Some people hate being around children on vacation. I love nothing better than meeting and photographing children in different parts of the world. In general, I think children are more beautiful and precious than all the art ever created. I felt this way even before having my own.

elaine

I saw in an article about travel not too long ago that one benefit to being exposed to anything new is to let it enter our heads once in a great while that we might be wrong.

Judy

Julie I to am also familiar with Nawal Al Sadawi she was imprisoned in Egypt for linking in speeches the patriarchical structure to the government and commerce. If you are living in a country where you are thrown in jail if you challenge popular thinking don't you think this creates a bit of pressure to agree with the government . If you are not given any choices doesn’t it make your life easier if you find ways to enjoy the structure you have been given. I know many Arabic women that are sophisticated, educated, well read who do not feel sorry for Western women. They love their home countries but they see that there are problems. <BR> <BR>In the middle east anything that rides against Islam is connected with imperialism. Linking the lose of your nation’s land to living like those western thieves is a lot of negative pressure to conform to. This is where most thinking middle eastern women are coming from if they insist they feel sorry for Western women. I also think people who have not read or learned anything about the condition of women before Islam (Beyond the Vail by Fatima Mernissa ) and just buy everything that comes their way on how cliterectomys, family honor rules etc. are God inspired are the people you are talking about. I am sorry to say it is the simpletons who feel sorry for Western women. <BR> <BR>I think the first entry was a very nice idea. I do think it may have come from someone that was just having a wonderful time and was not looking to deeply at the cultures they were visiting. I don't mean this as an attach I just think you can not witness and read what goes on with an open eye and say we all love eachother and have same dreams for love one's ect.. <BR> <BR> On my last visit to Egypt I saw a women in the street surrounded by people yelling and shoving her as loaves of bread fell out from under her cape. On another visit into Turkey I say a boy of about 10 yell and smack his mother into silence. Don’t you think this changes how these people love each other. I notice a lot more comradery in Men here. I remember always seeing men link armed and chatting in Turkey. Why shouldn’t this happen if your wife is considered so far below you. I think men confide in other men much quicker than they do in their wives. Actually I have this on personal experience and many Arab friends with Arab husbands have confirmed this for me. <BR>

Mary

I haven't travelled all over the world, but I have been to Italy, France, England, Holland, Switzerland, Israel and Turkey. We don't go on tours, better chance to experience life as lived by citizens of these countries. We've met wonderful men and women all over, except in Turkey. The men were very friendly and nice, but the only women we ever saw were picking stuff out of the ground on farms or selling knick-knacks. Never saw couples out for the evening. Never saw women working in resturants or stores and none of them spoke where we did see them. Now I'm sure there are modern women who go out to lunch, have greayt jobs and so on, but they are hidden I think. I really wish we could of met some Moslem women who would speak to us about how they feel about their lives. Every Turkish man I asked about their mothers, wives,sisters and girlfriends said that female was super happy with their life. Being a westerner, its hard for me to believe, and I guess that made me think that its not such a small world after all.

William

How do you ask someone whom you have just met if their family members are happy? Just a little concern that we take curiosity to invasive lengths while traveling. I would find a question like this quite contentious if I met a foreigner who asked this of me. It just sounds like a loaded question one which implies but how can that be? Perhaps your situation provided the correct circumstances, I am just curious Mary?

Mary

If you knew me, you would know I can strike up a conversation with anyone, and I genuinely want to know about them. I'm not bragging or lying I just have always been a good listener, and I guess talker too. In Turkey, the men we met were either in our hotel or ran shops or sat next to us at dinner. I didn't stop strangers on the street, I promise. Infact, we met 2 men in Antalya, sitting next to us at aresturant in the old city. They own a leather clothing store and my husband owns a mens clothing store here. We started talking, they told me about there wives and kids, trying to make a living with their screwed up economy, we exchaned email addresses, and they've invited us to come back and stay with them! We won't, we like hotels, but I would like a chance to get to know there families. Like I said in the previous posts, Wherever we go we make friends, most people are nice, just in Turkey, we didn't see many women, and the ones we did see either couldn't or wouldn't speak to us. By the way, we experienced the same thing in Israel with Arab women. They just don't look happy.

Louise

I think Dave said it all - everything I ever needed to know (about travel) I learned from Dave!

Gloria

I am sorry Mary I have to agree with William. I find most people in Middle Eastern countries invite you into their homes. They are a very generous people. You really want to be careful about open assessments about how they choose to live. I do agree with you though that the women seem unhappy. I think that Judy makes a very good point as to how locked into the culture these women are. It is one thing to have people identify your liberation with fear of change a completely separate issue when people identify your freedom with national betrayal. I do think this is what these women face. I would suggest one thing to you Mary. I would read about Turkey before you make even quiet opinions in your head about the economy or women. I do not mean to insult. I just think that doing this reading will enrich your conversations and perhaps enlighten you to the complexities that impact the culture, economy etc... Just a thought. I apologize if I have overstepped here as it is clear I have.

Sue

As much as I enjoy travel and find it stimulating, I have never found it possible, in the course of a few weeks, to obtain the kind of information that would enable me to make anything other than the broadest of generalizations. The sample of people to whom I've been exposed is too small, and as one person said, the kind of questions that one can legitimately (or politely) ask are limited. In short, I'm not comfortable either with blanket acceptance (as in "we shouldn't judge") nor with making criticisms. When I see something while travelling that either delights me or makes me feel ill at ease, it is cause for notation in the travel diary, but again, I wouldn't rush to any conclusions based on either reaction. <BR> <BR>

Cindy

There's no place like home.