Cholmondley_Warner

To clarify: If you have a season ticket or travel card loaded on your Oyster then you can use it anywhere, but the overground doesn't "do" PAYG.

yk

<i>but the overground doesn't &quot;do&quot; PAYG.</i>

Not according to the TFL:

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tickets/oysteronline/6369.aspx

<i>Oyster is valid throughout the London Overground network. You can use your Oyster card to <u>pay as you go</u> or load it with a Travelcard season ticket.

Paying as you go with your Oyster card
If you want to pay as you go on London Overground services, an entry charge of up to &pound;6.50 will be deducted from your Oyster card when you touch in at the start of your journey.

When you touch out at the end of your journey, the charge will be adjusted so that you only pay the advertised Oyster single fare for that journey. But, if you do not touch in and out correctly, the charge is not adjusted and you lose the benefit of cheaper Oyster fares.

At stations where there are no ticket gates, you must use the yellow card readers provided. If you do not, you will be charged a maximum cash fare.</i>

Cholmondley_Warner

At stations where there are no ticket gates, you must use the yellow card readers provided. If you do not, you will be charged a maximum cash fare.&gt;&gt;&gt;


And that's the problem. South London doesn't have these things everywhere. I'm not sure about Norf.

JoyceL

These are my Tube destinations: Z2=Hampstead, Greenwich
Z4=Richmond, Kew, Osterly, Hampton Court
Z6=Heathrow

Do you know if the paper card is required at any of these stations?

Also, can Travelcards be bought ahead of time? Does the card's &quot;start date&quot; have to be the same as the purchase date?

yk

JoyceL-
http://cache.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/pdfdocs/colourmap.pdf

The only station that isn't covered on the travelcard is Hampton Court.
http://www.hrp.org.uk/HamptonCourtPa...tingthere.aspx

How many days will you be in London? Are you visiting the zone 4 places on multiple days? Your choices are:
1) Oyster PAYG (and just buy a separate r/t ticket for HCP)
or
2) a 7-day travelcard covering zones 1-4 (&pound;36.80), and you can just pay the add-on fare for Heathrow.

To figure out what's the most economic way for you to travel, you should study this in detail:
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloa...s-zones1-6.pdf

yk

JoyceL-

Let me elaborate a little more.

With Oyster PAYG, you can travel to all the places you listed EXCEPT HCP, which is reached by Rail only.

For 7-day travelcard, you can either get it in paper form, or electronic form loaded onto an Oyster card.

With a 7-day zones 1-4 <u>paper</u> travelcard, you *may* get a discount on your rail ticket to HCP, but I'm not 100% sure. Don't know how that works if your travelcard comes in electronic form.

Will you be traveling during peak hours (ie, before 9:30am Mon-Fri)? The benefit of a 7-day travelcard is it does not limit you to peak or off-peak travel. You can travel anytime.

If you are only traveling OFF-PEAK (ie, after 9:30am), you will be better off buying <u>daily</u> travelcards for the zones that you'll need for that day.
Off-peak zones 1-2 is &pound;5.10/day
and off-peak zones 1-4 is &pound;5.80/day

sf7307

YK, just curious about your last remarks, that one-day travel cards are better...since Oyster PAYG(not a travel card loaded on an Oyster) is capped at slightly LESS than the one-day travel card cost, why are one-day travel cards better than PAYG Oyster?

yk

sf7307-

You're absolutely right.

I should say, assuming JoyceL is staying in London for close to a week, she should

If traveling OFF-PEAK Get Oyster PAYG. [Not daily paper travelcards as I have said earlier, because the Oyster PAYG capping fare is cheaper than the paper travelcard.]

If traveling PEAK: Get 7-day travelcard (either paper or electornic) as it'll be cheaper

And if JoyceL is going to be in London for 4-5 days, then she'll probably be better off with just Oyster PAYG (but she'll have to do the math herself, depending on whether she plans to travel peak or off-peak).

sf7307

Yay - I got one right

yk

To make things even more complicated, JoyceL can consider getting a <u>3-day</u> zones 1-6 travelcard! That will cover one of the Heathrow legs, plus any of the zone 4 trips
&pound;21.20 for off-peak

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tickets/faresa...kets/2911.aspx

yk

The 3-day travelcard is not a good deal if JoyceL uses it for just one zone-6 trip.

JoyceL

My Travelcard usage will probably not be on consecutive days. I will use the card on Day 1, probably not use it Days 2-3, then use it on Day 4. For this reason I am thinking of buying single-day Travelcards. But I do not want to wait on line everyday. This is why I asked the question:

Can Travelcards be bought ahead of time? Does date of &quot;first use&quot; have to be the same as the purchase date?

I cannot believe how confusing the British Rail companies have made this. On my previous trip to England (11 years ago), buying Tube tickets was a much simpler process.

yk

I don't know if you can buy a travelcard in advance for the following day(s). Perhaps it's possible at a ticket window at a tube station, but don't think it's possible from a self-service machine.

If you're traveling in that way, why not just get an Oyster PAYG so you don't have to worry about anything except for your trip to Hampton?

When you say you won't be needing a travelcard on Day 2 and Day 3, are you saying that you WON'T be using any form of public transportation? NOt even a single tube or bus ride? Because, if you want to take the tube or bus, even once, you'll be much better off paying that ride with an Oyster PAYG than paying a single ride fare.

xyz123

I don't want to go back through the whole thing but I think somebody mentioned Greenwich and Hampton Court.

Greenwich can be reached by boat up the Thames from several intermediate points and also by the Docklands Light Rail (DLR)..Greenwich is considered zone 2 and most assuredly all London Underground and Bus passes whether oyster PAYG or travelcards covering zones 1 &amp; 2 are good on the DLR (as always when you board the DLR in Greenwich make sure you touch in on the yellow card reader before getting on the train)..I think Hampton Court is in zone 6 and I am not sure if the train that serves Hampton Court takes Oyster but you know something....you'll know when you get to the station. If it takes Oyster, fine, you use the PAYG oyster or if you have a travelcard on it, you load enough money on the PAYG portion of that oyster card for the zone 3 to 6 extension. If they don't take oyster, you buy a zone 1-6 paper travelcard for that day....end of problem.

Again all fares are much cheaper with an oyster card than paying cash...a single fare in Central London costs &pound;4....the same fare with an oyster card is &pound;1.60...a single bus fare for cash is &pound;2 on oyster &pound;1 with the added benefit that no matter what happens that day, the oyster card fare will cap for the day at 50p less than the corresponding travelcard. So on day 2, when you get back from Hampton Court, maybe you'll want to go out to a restaurant and take a round trip on the bus...we're talking &pound;2 rather than &pound;4 and again, although you may find it inconvenient, if you wish when leaving London you can turn in the PAYG oyster card, get your &pound;3 deposit back as well as any used time (but you may have to queue) or just keep it for your next trip.

I just don't see how you can go wrong with oyster PAYG

xyz123

oops if on day 2 you go to Hampton Court and have to buy a zone 1-6 day travelcard of course you don't use the oyster card that day, you do the rest of whatever with the one day travelcard...mea culpa

JoyceL

Some of you have asked why I am looking at Travelcards instead of Oyster PAYG. This is the reason: Travelcards are Off-Peak after 9:30am. With Oyster PAYG everything is a Peak fare not only in the morning, but also between 4 and 7 PM, which is when I expect to be travelling.

For me it is not a question of either/or. I expect to be buying Travelcards AND and an Oyster PAYG, with the PAYG being used on days I do not have the Travelcards.

The only issue for me at this point is whether to get the paper or Oyster form of Travelcard. Based on what some of you have said, it sounds as if I should get paper form. I do not want to arrive at a train station only to find my ticket unusable.

Thank you everyone for helping me figure out how to handle all of this!

yk

JoyceL - You wrote:

<i>This is the reason: Travelcards are Off-Peak after 9:30am. With Oyster PAYG everything is a Peak fare not only in the morning, but also between 4 and 7 PM, which is when I expect to be travelling.</i>

I don't know where you got this incorrect information. From TFL's website regarding Oyster's daily price capping:

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tickets/oysteronline/9261.aspx

Off-peak travel
An off-peak cap will apply if you travel between:

Monday-Friday from 09:30-04:29 (the following day)
Saturdays, Sundays and public holidays from 04:30-04:29 (the following day)

IN ADDITION, another benefit of Oyster PAYG is that if the total costs of your trips in one day is less than the capping price, you will be only charged the actual fares of those trips you took.

JoyceL

I got the Peak information from the same Web site you went to. Read this brochure: http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloa...s-zones1-6.pdf

It says: &quot;Peak Oyster single fares apply from 0630 to 0930 and
from 1600 to 1900 Monday to Friday (excluding public holidays).&quot;

Another Web site containing the same information is
http://www.londontoolkit.com/briefing/oystercard.htm

Oyster has 2 Peak periods (morning and 4-7 PM), while Travelcard has only 1 Peak period (morning). This makes the Travelcard less expensive for me.

xyz123

Looking at it the offpeak/on peak oyster fares were meant basically as a fare reduction for the hours from 0930 to 1600...I'll use the example I know the best on this...

In the past extensions to the 7 day zone 1 &amp; 2 used to cost &pound;1 nonpeak and &pound;1.80 peak but peak was defined as 0700 to 1900 weekdays.

These fares were raised this year to &pound;2 peak and &pound;1.10 off peak but peakwas redefined to be 0630 to 0930 and 1600 to 1900..the mid day was redefined into non peak. So the current oyster peak fares are 10% approximately more than the original peak fares last year but the period from 0930 to 1600 which was peak in the past is now non peak.

This peak/non peak business does not apply to single fares in zone 1 (central London) where a single oyster fare this year is &pound;1.60 up from &pound;1.50 last year...

However in terms of price capping, if your journeys on London public transportation on a given day begin after 0930 on weekday and all during the weekend, the cap is considered as non peak.....so if your first trip on the tube is after 0930 on a weekday, the cap will be the non peak cap which for zone 1 &amp; 2 is &pound;5.10 even if you use the tube between the hours of 1600 to 1900....peak caps would apply if your first trip of the day is between 0430 and 0930 on a weekday...which of course makes it somewhat more confusing...and it is clear in the brochure that they say if you will be using national rail services that do not take oyster, you will need a paper travelcard for the day!

I think when you get to London, you can call tfl and they will tell you on what services Oyster PAYG is accepted.

So to summarize, yes it's really confusing, the peak/off peak distinction on single fares was meant as a price reduction for using the tube and those national rail services that take oyster PAYG as a fare reduction not a fare increase! Wow, now try to decipher the rules for fares for those under 18. Indeed, it is very complicated I most certainly agree.

yk

<i>Peak Oyster <b>single</b> fares apply from 0630 to 0930 and
from 1600 to 1900 Monday to Friday (excluding public holidays).&quot;</i>

The operative word here is <u>single</u>.

It does not apply to daily price capping.

Using Oyster PAYG

Example 1:
Monday, you travel on the tube twice, once at 10am and once at 5pm between zones 1-4.

Your first ride will cost &pound;2.20 (oyster off-peak single fare for zones 1-4) and your second ride will cost &pound;2.80 (peak single fare).

Your total cost that day will be &pound;5.

Example 2:
Monday, you travel on the tube 3 times: once at 10am, once at 3pm, once at 5 pm; all between zones 1-4.

Your Oyster will deduct &pound;2.20 for your first AND second ride, but on your third ride, it will only deduct &pound;1.40 because your daily OFF-PEAK cap has reached for zones 1-4, which is &pound;5.80.

As long as you start your first trip AFTER 9:30am M-F, your oyster daily capping will be priced as off-peak.

Hope this is clear.