Just Curious

I just discovered Bob "the navigator" is a travel agent. I was looking at some old posts. Who else on this forum is a travel agent? I don't mind, I am just curious. This is no different than the question about teachers a while back.<BR>What is Fodor's policy on advertising or recruiting business here?

Rex

What is the evidence that Bob the Navigator is a travel agent? Based on e-mail correspondence that he and I started sharing, almost from my first appearance here, I can tell you plenty about Bob's hobby (trip planning) and about his career with the XXX corporation before he retired. But it doesn't feel right to tell more unless he thinks that I should.<BR><BR>Best wishes,<BR><BR>Rex<BR>

Christina

It's interesting that you've been reading Fodors long enough to remember threads on teachers but have never read the front page FAQs. If you want to know their policy, go read it, it's not a secret.

wendy

IMO there is a definite difference between travel planners and travel agents.

yyy

Someone who offers advice and then suggests that you e-mail him directly, and then tells you that he charges X-amount of $ per hour with a 6 hour minimum, is definitely using this site to promote his own business. And that is not the purpose of this board!

Diane

I'm really getting annoyed with the anon posters who get sanctimonious. Bob the Nav provides as many FREE good ideas and encouragement on this site as anyone---probably much more. IF you want someone to plan your trip for you, you SHOULD pay them something. If you want to do it yourself, go for it. I would imagine Bob initially did it for friends/relatives gratis, then found he was spending more of his time working for others than he had ever planned. It takes a good deal of time to plan a trip. Chill out.

wendy

Diane: A-M-E-N!

Just Curious

I actually had read the policy on soliciting business via Fodors. I was just curious as to why some people are held to that standard and others are not.<BR>So far, NO ONE has addressed that!<BR>I think it is only fair that this is disclosed upfront. It does not do Fodor's reputation any good for people to think they are getting unbiased advice when, in fact, they may not.<BR>I agree with Diane, people should be paid for a service IF is it disclosed upfront that it is for sale.<BR><BR>Fair is Fair.

mac

If Bob promotes specific hotels or airlines from which he gets a commission, then I'd be suspicious of bias in his advice. However, he is charging on an hourly basis, which to me suggests his compensation isn't tied to any particular travel service.<BR><BR>This, combined with the fact that he gives tons of advice for free, so can we really call him a travel agent?

Patrick

To Just Curious, I thought there was a hidden agenda when I read your first post. To emphasize the idea that you "don't mind" and that you were "just curious" and to reiterate that your question was "no different than the question about teachers" all seemed to protest too much. Now the truth comes out. You admit that you had already read the policy and you seem to think that the posts you innocently asked about were very unfair. So why were you being so dishonest with us in your original post? Is that so different from what you are complaining about -- a lack of total honesty up front?<BR>I'm not for advertising either and Bob the Navigator even once sent me a long personal email regarding hotels and places to visit. If he is indeed a travel agent, I was never aware of it and he made to effort to solicit business from me at that time.

xxx

Bob is not going to get a commission from recommending hotels casually on a public internet site because the hotels will not connect the guests who follow his advice with him. So it's truly free advice. Travel agents are not banned from the site, and in fact if they have enthusiasm for the subject matter of their jobs they probably "live" it off hours, possibly by browsing and posting to a travel maessage sitee like this.

Just Curious

Patrick,<BR>I wasn't being dishonest. I wanted clarification on this subject. I have seen people get blasted for the merest mention of an association with a commercial enterprise.<BR>I was looking at old posts and was surprised to see this "Bob" person is in the travel business. I felt betrayed. The fact that this was not disclosed negated all that he has posted, in my opinion. I would feel no differently if it were anyone else. This is not a conversation about "Bob". It is a fair discussion about what the rules here at Fodor's are and if they are being followed by all. <BR>How about that photographer that was directing us to his website. He was offering his pictures for sale. Does this not change the value do you place on his opinions? <BR>I really do not care who is in what business. I would appreciate being told upfront, however. <BR>I think it is rather odd if you believe there was a hidden agenda in my first post.

xxx

If a person posts repeatedly over the years, HOW MANY TIMES do you think he's obligated to disclosed the nature of his part-time business?

Elaine

Sorry, Just Curious, but I think this is stupid. I've read a zillion posts by Bob the Navigator and have never seen him ask to be paid. IMO it doesn't matter what one's profession is any more than it matters what color one's skin is, or whatever. It's irrelevant. If he IS a travel agent, so what? If I could make a living at it I'd be one, too. <BR>ps There's no ban on travel agents or people in the travel industry from posting here, just like everyone else.

Just Curious

I really don't know. What do you think?<BR><BR>I have been visiting this Forum for about 6 or 7 months now. Only when I conducted a search for Italy did I learn of it.<BR><BR>In the last few months, however, I saw the man who does 'kids in London (?)', Rex, Deborah, and a few others that I can't recall, get reprimanded here at the site.<BR> <BR>Can anyone answer my fair question without getting defensive? I really don't know why asking for clarification on this subject causes these types of replies. <BR><BR>Wendy, are you the same 'Wendy' that stated that you write for food magazines and also plan itineraries for companies going to Italy and France? If so, then I can understand why you think a travel planner is different than a travel agent.<BR><BR>Can anyone tell me what the rules are?<BR><BR><BR>

xxx

Perhaps this person is a travel agent and just wants to know what can or cannot be done on this forum. I think it is a reasonable question.

elvira

"Can I promote my business on your forums? <BR>No, absolutely not. Fodors.com is one of the few major sites where travelers can come for unbiased, independent information about travel. Since our travel writers can't be everywhere at once, it's important that travelers be able to use our forums to get fresh-from-the-field updates and advice from other travelers. Please find another way to promote your business."<BR><BR>The policy says no promoting of your business, whether you're a travel agent or podiatrist. It does NOT state that if you have a business, you can't participate on the forum. BOB THE NAV offers sound advice, like how to buy tickets at the train station or decide where to visit. I've never seen him promote himself or his business. If you email him unsolicited, and ask for his help, he should certainly ask to be compensated if that is his business (if I emailed Rex and asked medical advice, I'd expect a bill); he didn't ask you to email him nor promote himself so is in no violation of Fodor's policy. If a poster says "email me for further information" and THEN asks for money, I would certainly consider that promoting his/her business. If someone posts a fake question like "how should I plan a trip for 12 people to eastern Europe?" so that s/he can respond with "I've planned many of these trips and have extensive knowledge of the region and most of the world", not only is that soliciting/promoting, but it's slimey and weasely to boot.<BR><BR>

Gloria

Recently, I put the web address on Fodor's where people could view pictures of our last trip to Prague and Vienna. I was accused of having a commercial site with the motive of trying to sell something. His comment was laughable, as anyone who visited that site would see my pictures are available to all. <BR>My guess is that any travel agent willing to share on this forum is going to be giving pretty good advice...for free.<BR>I am a business owner (not travel related) who gets paid for advice and opinions. I am not interested in spending my most precious spare time dispensing free advice. Thank you to those of you willing to do so. <BR>Lighten up, folks. This is the best forum on the best topic. <BR>Gloria<BR>

Rex

I believe that there are two standards regarding commercial promotion on this forum, and they are (perhaps) both (generally) reasonable, and they can co-exist, even though they are different.<BR><BR>The first is the standard of the host, Fodor's and Random House, and it is generally lax, and laid out with a focus on intent. They do not want any business coming here to "prey" on the visitors here, whether travel-related, part-time, hobby-esque or otherwise. They generally accomplish their goal by simply posting their policy. The few egregious offenders are very rare, and they look stupid by their rarity. I believe that on a few rare occasions, Fodor's has removed messages from a few such businesses, and maybe from self-employed individuals (selling luggage, for example).<BR><BR>The second standard is the standard of the Fodorites' community. By comparison, it has seemed harsh, judgmental and maybe even capricious, at times. But it enforces the "law of the land" here. No legitimate business would dare try to flaunt it, and many hobbyists have been caught in its harpoons. Those who are seriously obsessed(?)/committed(?) to Europe travel as their number one _A_vocation have to develop very thick skin to stick around here. The best element I have found to make up my "armor" is to just truthfully, explicitly tell who I am, and the kinds of travel I seek to enjoy. It does involve providing a "service" to others - - as does answering questions here, with no compensation expected - - and if you think I do it as a way of building experience, expertise and reputation - - paying my dues, so to speak - - so that I can seriously sell tours someday - - well, who knows, you might be right. And maybe not. <BR><BR>I suppose Rick Steves and Arthur Frommer would be unwelcome here, strictly for who they are. I don't know. I think that would be rather a shame. I do think it curious that the advice of someone who has been to Europe one or two times is often judged as somehow "purer" and less subject to the question of "taint". Often viewed as more lilely to be accurate than best-selling guidebooks! Interesting. Of course, even the greenest rookie can provide info that is more up-to-date than a guidebook that went to press three years ago.<BR><BR>For now, what goes around "here" is about CONDUCT - - conduct HERE.<BR><BR>It might be helpful if Fodor's would occasionally comment - - to say "this is the kind of message we would rather not see" - - even if they didn't remove messages or ban them. But in the meantime, the "community" runs the place in its own way.<BR><BR>A reasonable sort of democracy.<BR>

PhoneyPosts

No-one should object to GENUINE advice from people in the Travel Business as long as they are 'up front' that they are Travel Agents/Planners/Advisors etc.<BR>It's the phoney postings from Travel Agents etc. who are pretending to be ordinary travellers that make people mad - just look at all the phoney Hawaii posts on the US forum. As long as someone makes it clear that they're in the Travel Business, what's the problem ?