SusanhNY

Family trip October 6-17. 3 nights Rome 7 nights Tuscany. Group is 3 couples, one with 18 month old baby. First time for all of us on a European trip. First visit for all to Italy. I am overwhelmed by planning group travel and have thrown all to an agent. Used to doing all on my own, hope this was right decision. She suggested Spanish Art Hotel in Rome. Good suggestion for us? Then 7 nights Villa Il Palagio near Florence, I think. Touring Tuscany countryside towns from there on our own via rental car. Would we like basing in Montepulciano, Pienza, Lucca better? We love wine, cooking, towns over cities although I do want a day visit or two to Florence cultural sites.

kybourbon

>>> Would we like basing in Montepulciano, Pienza, Lucca better?<<<

Yes. Montepulciano or Pienza would be better (or Montalcino for views and wine). I fund Lucca boring.

Your hotel in Rome is ok. You can walk to the Spanish Steps, Trevi Fountain, Piazza Navona easy enough from there. A bit more of a trek to the Colosseum or Vatican, but you aren't far from a subway stop. I would have given more time in Rome. If you only have 3 nights there and one is departure or arrival day, then you only have 2 sightseeing days.

Sassafrass

First off, I would spend 5 nights Rome and 5 nights Tuscany. Why? That is only 4 days. You could see so much by seeing Rome plus doing a couple of day trips (Ostia Antica, Orvieto, Hadrian's villa) without changing hotels. At a minimum, I would do 4 nights Rome and 6 Tuscany.

Since you want a day or two in Florence anyway, rather than trek back and forth, just stay in Florence for 2 or 3 nights (1 or 2 days) and someplace else for 3 nights. You could also stay in Florence and just rent a car for a couple of days.

There is another thing to consider. Flights and times.
Generally, you need to be in the city of departure the night before. Logically, to avoid checking into and out of hotels an extra time, it is best to put all days in a city together, so all time in the city of departure is at the end of the trip, rather than split into two stays.

So, the questions. Can you do multi-city (not two, one-way) and fly into Rome and out of Florence (or another city) or must you fly into and out of Rome? If so, do you push through on arrival to Tuscany or stay in Rome, then return to Rome the night before departure? If not for the little one, it might be better to push on, but maybe too much with a toddler. Decision to make.

Perhaps another poster could recommend a close, easy stop for last night or small town to head to for first nights, saving Rome for last.

Another concern for the couple with a toddler.
A caution I would make is steps or terrain getting to and from a hotel in some of the hilly areas. Carrying a toddler around where a stroller would not work, could get tiring and/or be unsafe. Check distance from hotel to parking for carrying baby gear.

Unless there is train or bus service very close, you will need two rental cars because the child will need to be in a car seat.

The villa looks beautiful. While it is great for using a car to go places, it is also a problem because you have to use a car all the time. With a little one, I would rather just pop the little one in a stroller and be off sightseeing or hop on a train.

If you do go the villa route, that couple will certainly need to stop and buy diapers, baby food, milk, etc. even if the child eats regular food most of the time. On a trip it will be more convenient for them to have all kinds of snacks at the villa, since they would not be able to just walk out to a shop.

Pretty as it is, remember it will likely be too cold for the pool.

IMDonehere

Your travel agent is doing you a disservice. The hotel is 45 minutes from Florence.

If you do not stay in Florence, getting into Florence with a baby is PITA as it difficult to park and the tourists sights are crowded even in the off-season. Even staying across the river in Fiesole can be a logistical problem.

Ask her:
When was the last time she stayed at these hotels?
Are there certain hotels she or the travel agency get a better deal from?
Why isn't she recommending hotels in Florence?

_____________________

Before you go be sure to settle with friends how things are going to be paid.

Will everyone be responsible for admissions or will you pool your money and one person will be responsible on any give day?
Decide how to split the restaurant bills, especially if there is a drinker in the group.
Decide that you need not do everything as a group, you can sometimes go your separate ways and meet later.
____________

You are on one of the most trodden paths in the world, do not be concerned about being understood.

bilboburgler

Villa; I think you have decide where you want to stay generally. This looks like a big place far from anywhere. If that is what you like then fine.

For me, I'd rather stay in one of these options
1) in Florence so everything is easy to visit, because getting into town is a real pain
2) in an agriturismo, in the middle of nowhere but at least not such an "5star" sort of hotel, and agris tend to be farm orientated so you might have horses, grapes, olives etc
3) over in the region to the west of Siena, lots of hills, lots of views, Montelcino and Pienza are ok, but I prefer smaller towns. The point being you have descide if you want to be in a town, so there are bars to visit, churches to pop into etc etc

bvlenci

I agree that you should put the Rome stay at the end, so you'll be closer to the airport.

I would suggest taking the fast train to Florence as soon as you arrive. There is one that goes directly to Florence, without changing trains, leaving the airport at 11:08, if that fits in with your flight arrival time (allowing plenty of extra time in case the flight is late). Otherwise, there are frequent departures with a change of train in central Rome.

After spending a night or two in Florence, you can rent your car (or cars) and head to rural Tuscany. I agree that the Montalcino/Pienza/Montepulciano area would suit me better, and also that an agriturismo might be a better choice than a villa. For one thing, it will have services similar to a hotel, and there is also often a restaurant on site.

Finally, finish your stay in Rome, spending no less than four nights there, unless you're willing to skip some of the big attractions. Trying to see all the famous sights in Rome in two days is guaranteed stress, because 50,000 other people will be trying to see them on the same days you are. Best to alternate crowd-fighting days with relaxing hidden-gem days. (Rome is full of hidden gems.)

jamikins

Agree that the Val d'Orcia area would be a great choice. We loved staying here, just a 5 min drive from Montepulciano:

http://www.santantonio.it/

Dukey1

I will say only this much: if you fly into Rome and decide to take the train immediately to Florence (no problems with that) try to get a1 train that DOES NOT require you to change at Termini in Rome.

That station can be an absolute nightmare especially if your flight or you were delayed and you end up having to buy tickets there as opposed to going directly from the airport station. And a lot is going to depend on WHICH Florence station you want if you do go directly from the airport; some will require a change in Rome Tiburtina, for example.

I KNOW it sounds complicated ESPECIALLY for people who are not self-declared Italian "train experts" so be aware. Your TA can help with this as needed unless you've decided to bypass that person on everything.

vipsha

Second everything that Sassafras says. The couple with the 18 month baby (assuming the baby is not yours) may have to do some legwork regarding car seats, stroller access, availability of diaper changing facilities, etc. unless they are experienced at travelling with the child. We traveled when our kids were young, and some places are easier than others. We went prepared to do less than we would have before we had the kids, partly due to our learning curve more than anything else. Will the entire group be travelling in 1 car?

SusanhNY

Thanks to all for such generous advice! We do plan to fly into Rome and back home from Florence in order to save a day of relocating. Consensus seems to be 4 nights Rome instead of 3 to hit some major sites. Even in October? I was thinking we were visiting in a less hectic season than summer. I am leaning toward an agriturismo option in Tuscany rather than a fancy resort so our daughter will have more flexible options for feeding the baby. It seems being near larger town rather than middle of nowhere is a good idea. Probably will opt for 2 car rentals which gives options for independent visits from the rest. Will check out Val d'orcia area, sounds nice. Does anyone know whether it is easy to rent a stroller, or feasible to buy an inexpensive one for use?

StuDudley

Here is something I posted about the Val d'Orcia several years ago.

http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...y-171368-2.cfm

Stu Dudley

vipsha

Some vacation rentals provide strollers, high chairs, baby beds and/or pack and plays; in our experience car seats seem rare outside of the US, but my kids are older now maybe things have changed since then. There are inexpensive strollers available on Amazon which may not pass the fashion police but are rated decently.

Sassafrass

Car seats are now required in Italy in personal (rental) cars. Look at laws on size and weight of child. I doubt if at 18 months a child is big enough to not have one.

The best thing is to take one with you and use it on the plane. The child will be more comfortable and you won't have to worry about the car rental agency saying they will rent one to you, but they end up not having one or it is dirty.

Also, if the parents do not have one, they need some kind of compact foldable stroller and should take it with them. Get one the child can sleep in. It usually does not count as luggage on the plane. Don't take precious vacation time to shop for one. It will be nice to use as you trudge through the airport, while waiting for your flights and once you land. You can gate check it and use it right up to departure time and as soon as you land.

Yes, it is two more things to lug alone, but you will use both of them all during the trip, not just on arrival. Considering the total cost of the trip, these costs are minimal.

There are some child seats that attach to luggage too.

You never know what kind of bed, etc will be available for a toddler. Be sure to ask. We were given a heavy iron baby bed in one hotel with no padding or anything to protect our Granddaughter from hitting her head. We ended up moving a bed against a wall and her Mom sleeping with her.

bilboburgler

All over the EU you must have a child seat with basically the same rules. 18 months; you have to have one.

WoinParis

Several times I bought than discarded a child seat instead of getting it via the rental.

HappyTrvlr

Rome, even on October?
We were in Rome last fall Oct.15-28. All historic sites were mobbed. Weather was perfect for long walks.

vipsha

My experience is ~from 7 years ago, so it may not be current, but I thought I should add it to the discussion anyway. Some of it is not specific to Italy but to travelling with kids in general.

The US requires car seats to be rear facing until age 2, so I carried my kids' regular car seats in which they slept rear-facing on the flight - crew members who were not from the US were sometimes puzzled, but generally allowed it. On trains I either held them on my lap or put them in their stroller with the belt on. We took taxis a few times in various countries and we ended up not taking the car seat many a time because it was too bulky and just impractical, especially for short rides. I was their car seat, I made sure I wore my seat belt and strapped it over both of us.

On subsequent trips when they were 2 years of age or older we carried booster seats - this would not have been allowed in the US but most times the rental agency did not provide better (except in Hawaii). I would not have done this at home, but I was OK doing this during our travels since I was sitting close to them all the time, plus they have always been big and tall relative to their age.

Our rentals (or sometimes hotels) provided us with high chairs and cribs, and in one instance, in Switzerland, even with a good stroller - but I checked the pictures ahead of time.

Lastly I like to travel light, and am particular about doing laundry daily when travelling with the kids. Many family run places are good about doing laundry for a small feel, usually per load, as opposed to charging for each item. I find this service to be of great value because it frees up time to focus on visiting the area in the limited time we have. I ask about this ahead of time. I also carry some clothes that my kids are about to grow out of and leave them behind.

For some countries, I even carried diapers from home, don't think that should be a problem in Italy.

ToujoursVoyager

I agree that Val D'Orcia is spectacular. We stayed at Agriturismo Cretaiole near Pienza for 6 nights with our 2 years old in 2014. There was a playground, a vegetable garden, kittens, and space to run around.

I always bring my ergo baby carrier. Sometimes I have brought a umbrella stroller as well but not always. I have never brought a car seat. I find them very heavy and bulky.

When I rent a car in Italy, I always ask for a car seat. Never had a problem. At 18 months old, a baby can eat table food and cow milk (if not breastfed). The only thing I bought extra for my daughter were diapers which you can find easily in Florence and Rome.

The open jaw ticket in Rome and out Florence might not be the best option. Look at your # of connections and time flying when coming back from Florence. Depending on where you are living, it might be a better flight coming back from Rome, even with the train Florence->Rome.

Lastly, I ask the hotels or Airbnb if they have a baby crib. Only once (this coming trip to Capri), I was told that it was not available.

kybourbon

>>>Even in October? I was thinking we were visiting in a less hectic season than summer.<<<

Yes. It seems the Vatican tends to schedule a lot of things in Oct. which attracts crowds. It's like any major city in the world (such as NYC), there really isn't much of an off season.

>>>It seems being near larger town rather than middle of nowhere is a good idea. <<<
>>>Will check out Val d'orcia area, sounds nice.<<<

Stay near Siena then.

>>>Does anyone know whether it is easy to rent a stroller<<<

You will find all the cobblestones not very stroller friendly.

eastave

We have been to Val D'Orcia almost every year with our now 10 year-old daughter since she was 2.

We always traveled with our Maclaren stroller because we wanted one in the airports. After a disaster once trying to bring a car seat on a plane, we opted to rent with the car. It is ridiculous how much they charge, but it was great not having to haul one with us. They are often kind of grimy.

We stay at an agriturismo outside of Montepulciano. You do have to drive everywhere, but that is what we mostly want to do in the area anyway.

We love being able to eat dinner in (food is reasonably priced and fantastic) and just wander back to our apartment. When our daughter was young, it was great, because they had highchairs and when she finished it was ok for her to walk around the dining area and outside in the garden.

It is tiring pushing a stroller up the hills, but you really don't need to do serious planning about getting around with a baby/toddler.

Lastly, it is nice not moving around a lot with a kid that age. It is nice to be in one spot so you can plan your days around naps. We would go do stuff in the morning and then sometimes again in the late afternoon/evening.