Well, that “Touring Tuscany” thing sounds pretty grand, when in actuality the plan is really much more modest. But, here goes.

DH and I are traveling to Rome on Friday, September 25. After a week in Rome, we’re going to Siena for three nights, and then on to Florence for a couple of nights before looping back to Rome and then home. This is our first trip to Italy and we didn’t want to be too ambitious with the itinerary (“If it’s Tuesday, it must be Sorrento”), so we kept it pretty simple. Since we are Italy novices, and since we know no Italian, we chose to spend the first week in Rome on a Rick Steves’ tour (thanks to everyone for their great Scavi/Sistine Chapel advice!) and then forge ahead on our own for the second half of the trip. We chose Siena because we thought it would be a nice change of pace from the big city and would be a good base for exploring some of Tuscany. Then we chose Florence, well, because it’s Florence.

We intend to do all of this without renting a car. It’s not that we’re timid travelers (although I suppose we are, a little), but we obviously don’t want/need one in Rome, and thought that we’d have a lot less stress without a cranky Fiat and crazed Italian drivers tailgating as we try to figure out road signs, even in the relatively calm and bucolic Tuscan hills. So, transport after Rome will have to be by bus, train, or an organized tour of some sort. Or on foot.

After careful study of posts in this forum and the on the web (I was an information specialist for many years – used to call us librarians ;-) – so I’m real good at gathering information), I think I have some of this figured out – please tell me if I’ve gone wrong. Although I’m a reasonably educated adult, figuring out Italian public transportation has been a challenge:

• From Rome to Siena: Sena Bus (http://www.sena.it/index_e.htm ) Need reservations?
• In the Siena area: Siena Mobilita Bus (http://www.sienamobilita.it/EN/index.html ) Need reservations?
• From Siena to Florence: SITA bus? Seems to be part of Siena Mobilita? Then there’s the Tra-In bus thrown in as a confusion factor ... Need reservations for whatever one it is?
• From Florence to Rome: Train. Since Trenitalia website is so difficult to use from the US (as I read in this forum), we thought to buy those tickets when we first arrive in Rome, or about 11 days prior to the trip from Florence. Does that make good sense? Can one get an Amica fare within that time frame? And, can you get an Amica fee at a machine, or do you need to deal with a person at a window to get that?

But my primary question is where to try to go to “tour Tuscany” from Siena, and the best way to do it. We will leave Rome on Saturday morning, and then spend Saturday, Sunday and Monday nights in Siena, leaving for Florence on Tuesday morning. We’d like to see as much as practical during that time, “doing” Siena as well as visiting some hill towns. Obvious choices are San Gimignano, Volterra, Montalcino, Pienza, and Montepulciano, but there may be others that I’m overlooking. We could take buses where practical on our own, or we could take some sort of organized tour. We would just as soon go on our own, but won’t turn up our noses at an organized experience that would give us something that we couldn’t do on our own, either because of lack of transport or lack of knowledge.

As for some tour options, I’ve found:
• Bus/van tours, such as Il Casato Viaggi (http://www.sienaholiday.com/ ) which run five-ish hour tours to various “medieval villages” and wineries (like, “Brunello & Montalcino”). About 36 Euro/person.
• Walking tours (http://www.walkabouttuscany.com ) which are full or half days of guided walking to, through, and/or around San Gim, Monteriggioni, Montalcino/St. Antimo, Volterra, etc. Fees depend on how many do the walk; if only the two of us, then about 100 Euro/person for a half day
• Steam “nature” train from Siena (http://www.terresiena.it/trenonatura...no-vapore.html ) to Asciano, with a winery/lunch stop. About 38 Euro/person.

So, all you very knowledgeable Fodorites, given the time we have, what would be a proper mix of Siena/other places, which of the “other places” would be the best to choose, and which, if any, organized tour options do you think would be an added value to our first visit to Italy?

Thanks!

You have done your homework--there is not much I can add.
I will say that you can bus to San Gim. easily from Siena. Also, look at tourbyroberto.com for day trips by van from Siena--he is very good. If you choose to walk, the area around St. Antimo is a good option.
Be sure you know that the bus from Rome leaves from the Tibutina station. You are going at a good time--have fun !

Sorry, try this instead.
http://www.toursbyroberto.com/

I've gone all over Tuscany and Umbria by bus and train - the bus system is very dense and frequent - just be sure to buy your bus ticket before getting on the bus - either from a kiosk at the bus station (often just a parking place in a square) or at a tobacconist or caffe. I speak no Italian and found no problem taking buses all over.

Hi PG,

>• From Rome to Siena: check
• In the Siena area: check
• From Siena to Florence: SITA bus? check. I just stopped by the bus station and bought tickets when I was in the area.
• From Florence to Rome: Train. Check.

Siena Mobilita schedules are at http://www.busfox.com/timetable/
You can visit San Gimignano from Siena or Florence.

Enjoy your visit


Even if you did leave Venice out.

Here are answers to two questions not addressed above:

1. SITA and Tra-In cooperate on the bus routes between Siena and Florence. Be sure to get the nonstop service which takes the highway (if you want to save time). The "slow" service takes much longer, but goes through some scenic towns in-between.

2. With respect to the "AMICA" fare (20% savings) between Rome and Florence, beware of the following:

(i) it is valid only on "IC" trains. There is a different promotional fare for the AV/ES trains, which requires a 7-day advance purchase, and results in a mere 15% savings.

(ii) read up on the restrictions on making reservation changes with both the "AMICA" fare and the 15% savings fare for the AV/ES trains.

(iii) All these discount fares can be obtained from the automated kiosk vending machines at the major train stations, or from a manned ticket agent window. You have to request them specifically when using the automated machine by pressing the appropriate screen fields. However, because these fares are capacity controlled, they may not be available for the trains of your choice, even if you book 11 days beforehand. If that is the case, you can always try to get the promotional fares in first class, which will cost you only slightly more that the undiscounted second class fare. Otherwise, just buy an undiscounted ticket, and forego the 15% or 20% savings.

(iv) BEWARE that several IC trains between Rome and Florence no longer stop at Roma Termini or Firenze S.M. Novella stations. Some still do. You need to be absolutely certain of this before you book, or you'll end up at a secondary station (like Firenze Campo di Marte or Firenze Rifredi) not convenient to your hotel or to the city center. Maybe you've already read my other posting on this topic?

I took an IC train from Florence to Venice and like GAC says i had to go to the Florence Rifredi station to catch it - no real problem as they are incessant trains shuttling the about two miles between the stations. You could also go to Florence Campo di Marte, which to me seems about as close, if you take a taxi, as the main SMNovella station - and actually being more sleepy than hectic SMN may not be a bad move - it is no more than a mile from the Duomo area - i've walked it many times.

and in Venice i had to take a shuttle train from the mainland Mestre station over to Venice proper and the Santa Lucia station - again no real hassle.

And Rome's Tibertina station, served by some ICs like GAC says that don't continue onto the dead-end Rome Termini station, is like Campo di Marte, much quieter and easier perhaps to get taxis - or there are constant shuttle trains into Termini as well.

So if you want to save some bucks look at these alternative routes as not being all that impractical IMO - now i had a Eurailpass and that factored into my decision - i did not have to cough up 15 euros for the pass supplement since i could just board the IC train since it does not require reservations as IC+ and ES type trains all seem to do. It was not just the 15 euros but i did not want to peg myself into the ES train the day before, keeping my flexibility and it worked well - it did take about one hour longer Florence to Venice city center to city center however.

TAKE NOTE that, effective July 14, 2009, all IC, ICN and EXP trains in Italy now also require seat reservations, which are given automatically with ticket purchase.

It is NO LONGER TRUE that you can buy a ticket for an IC train in Italy without a seat reservation.

GAC - thanks for that nugget - debunks part of my reason for, with a pass, just hopping on IC trains. I notice more and more services are becoming ES (or AV, etc) now and fewer and fewer IC trains - one reason the Italian railpass is a so un-economical is that now you must pay 15 euros extra (5 euro i assume on IC+ and lesser trains requiring reservations) - not only making the pass uneconomical but negating the old ability to just hop on any train without arrangement. Lamentable to me and is a move in several countries, like Spain and France as well.

Yes, what you say is true. Trenitalia is increasing its higher-cost, high-speed services at the expense of the traditional IC and EXP trains, which are being slowly phased out.

I've already reported on the planned phaseout of IC, ICN and EXP trains to Sicily.

After a fortnight in Tuscany sans car, I can vouch for the punctuality of both the Sita bus and Trenitalia services. Only once did we arrive later than the scheduled time and all departures were on time.
Although we spent two nights in Siena, we were based mainly in Florence. Sita have a regular service to Greve, a great place for lunch and a bottle of Chianti - and there is a walk (uphill) to Castelfioralle afterwards.
The local ATAF bus runs regularly (every 20 mins) up to Fiesole from outside Florence railway station.
We did a self-guided walk Volterra to Santa Colomba outside Siena, overnighting in San Gimignano, Colle Val d'Elsa and Monteriggione. To select a section for a one day walk - either San Donato to San Gim (half day) or from outside Colle to Monteriggione, via Strove. Monteriggione to Santa Colomba is more strenuous, reaching almost 2,000 ft at its highest point.

The ATAF bus to Fiesole is the No. 7 Most tourists catch it either at the S.M. Novella train station, or in Piazza San Marco.

Thanks for the all the bus/train advice. I will have to do some more deciphering to make sure I get the right one going to the right place! It's still a little bit like alphabet soup to me.

Any advice on how much time I should devote to Siena and how much to other towns? And, which "other towns" are your favorites? Like, I've read that San Gim is quaint but touristy, that Volterra is a "real" town, etc.

SeeDee, where did you get your self-guided walk material? Or, did you just wing it? It sounds wonderful.

And ira, I'm sorry about Venice. One of my colleagues celebrated his partner's 40th birthday with a week in Venice earlier this year, and he just loved it. I was sorely tempted, but decided to leave that for the next time (here's hoping that there will be a next time)!

>>one reason the Italian railpass is a so un-economical is that now you must pay 15 euros extra<<<

The ES trains are 15€, the AV are 20€.

You can easily reach Montalcino, Montepulciano, Pienza from Siena by bus. Schedules are on Siena Mobilita which operates the booking for all the buses in the region. I have the Siena Mobilita schedule book (about 140 pages) I picked up last fall and I doubt the times will be much different if you have any questions. Make sure you know the return schedules as you don't want to get stuck an hour away from Siena if you miss the last bus. Some towns will have almost hourly service in the morning/early afternoon and then have a big gap of 3-4 hours in the later afternoon/early evening. This can lead you stuck for a bit in a town that didn't take long to visit. Sunday won't as have much service (or possibly no service) to some areas. I would plan to spend Sunday in Siena.

You will not find Volterra as easy to reach by bus as some of the other towns you've mentioned.

Bookmarking - great info here, thanks.

We did the walking section with One Foot Abroad, who arranged the overnight accomodation and the luggage transfers. We were provided with maps and walking notes which kept us pretty much on the designated track.
I don't know if they could organise a one day walk for you, given your limited time. If you were given an option, I would choose the Volterra to San Gimignano; You are left to a start point by taxi and the views approaching San Gim in the afternoon are most welcoming.

kybourbon - thanks for correcting me - and i think there may even be some AV trains even more than 20 euros - but 20 euros is about $30 or so - on top of the pass!

PQ - The prices for seats used to be listed on Trenitalia and they had AV as 20, ES as 15. I haven't looked lately. I'm sure they are still listed there somewhere and may have increased.