Train travel in Italy
May 16th, 1998 | 02:18 PM
#2
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From Venice take the train across the mountains to Salzburg. Great little Austrian city that was one of the Royal cities, spend two days.. From Salzburg take train to Munich, a great place to spend two to three days.. From Munich rent a car and day trip the Romantic road. Then then take train to Paris and on to London. Having been in each of these places before, I wish it were me taking that trip!
Need any details on sites and or place to stay e-mail me.
Need any details on sites and or place to stay e-mail me.
May 16th, 1998 | 03:55 PM
#3
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Tom, I have lots of questions! 1. Do the trains go into Tuscany and stop at small towns. We plan on going to the big typicall sights, Rome, Venice, Florence, but also want to do Tuscany and Umbria. How do we get there, if we don't have a car. We are living for Italy on June 28.
2. Is it possible not to make hotel reservations ahead, and still find something decent in Tuscany, and Umbria and in the southern parts of the country?
3. Any info you can give will be greatly appreciated.
Grazie!
Kath
2. Is it possible not to make hotel reservations ahead, and still find something decent in Tuscany, and Umbria and in the southern parts of the country?
3. Any info you can give will be greatly appreciated.
Grazie!
Kath
May 17th, 1998 | 03:34 PM
#6
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There is an excellent web site for European train timetables at www.bahn.de It's in German, but click on the little English button on the top right and it changes to English. You can put in any starting point and any desitnation and it will give you detailed timetables. A great way to plan a European train journey.
May 18th, 1998 | 11:40 AM
#7
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I agree with Tom. Salzburg is a most beautiful city. My wife and I spent only 2 days there and regretted leaving. We could've spent weeks exploring the small streets and shops/restaurants.
There is much to see in the surrounding areas as well. For Jean - reservations are not generally needed in Italy and unless it's an express train, they usually stop in most smaller cities. A eurail pass is not usually a good deal unless you plan to travel frequently by train
There is much to see in the surrounding areas as well. For Jean - reservations are not generally needed in Italy and unless it's an express train, they usually stop in most smaller cities. A eurail pass is not usually a good deal unless you plan to travel frequently by train
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May 18th, 1998 | 02:21 PM
#8
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Tom has a nice itinerary, but a teutonic orientation
I would suggest that you forget Paris and London
on this trip---not enough time. Instead,train to
Milan--but do not pause---go to Lugano or Como, do
the Italian Lakes[the best], and then train to
to Nice and do the French Riviera. Either fly back
from Nice, or train to Paris,, but that is a long
trip. Another option is to forget Nice and train
to Interlaken[Grindelwald] and see the best of the
Alps, and then fly out of Zurich. Europe is not
about big cities. If you want detail, that is what
I do well, and have done many times before.
I would suggest that you forget Paris and London
on this trip---not enough time. Instead,train to
Milan--but do not pause---go to Lugano or Como, do
the Italian Lakes[the best], and then train to
to Nice and do the French Riviera. Either fly back
from Nice, or train to Paris,, but that is a long
trip. Another option is to forget Nice and train
to Interlaken[Grindelwald] and see the best of the
Alps, and then fly out of Zurich. Europe is not
about big cities. If you want detail, that is what
I do well, and have done many times before.
May 18th, 1998 | 05:23 PM
#9
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I am considering a month-long program in Florence where Italian is learned and you live with a host family...formal ed., meals and excursions included (about $2000). Would you recommend this as a good way to explore the Florence area? Tuscany? Or can the idea? Any comments are WELCOME --next program starts early July!
May 19th, 1998 | 05:50 AM
#10
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Bob the Navigator (love it) - Yes, I definitely would love detail. I like your suggestion re french rivera. Train to Milan from where? Your opinion train vs. driving? It was suggested to me that we DRIVE from north down to the Amalfi coast..Sorrento, Capri. but am not too thrilled with all that driving and your route is more appealing to me. Please respond with your "details" We have 2 weeks. Thank you so much.
May 19th, 1998 | 12:12 PM
#11
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Jean,
You've gotten some wonderful advice from Tom and Bob, the Navigator. I should be reluctant to muddy the waters by suggesting yet another proposed itinerary but will anyway. Including London and Paris in addition to Venice and wherever else you choose within a two week period is unfair both to yourself and to the sites you plan to visit. Venice, yes, add three days in Florence, three days to recoup on Lake Como, then a trip to Langnau in central Switzerland from which you can tour Basle, Bern, Luzerne and Interlaken, none of which are more than ninety minutes travel time (by car or rail) from Langnau. You'll be overwhelmed by the artistic treasures in Florence, delighted by the scenic vistas seen from the ferries that ricochet from shoreline to shoreline on Lake Como and impressed by the awesome Alpine beauty of Switzerland. Jan M's recommendation regarding european time tables on the internet is an excellent resoource. One word of caution however. When entering desired destinations, attempt to use the native name of the city (Firenze, rather than Florence, Munchen rather than Munich for examples). Eliminates the frustration of possibly encountering error messages. While the prohibitive cost of auto rental in Italy almost dictates the use of rail for travel, Swiss auto rentals are considerably cheaper and offer the opportunity to liesurely and spontaneously visit and explore charming Alpine or farming villages. If interested, I can recommend excellent, reasonably priced hotels both in Switzerland, Florence and on the shores of Lake Como in Cernobbio.
You've gotten some wonderful advice from Tom and Bob, the Navigator. I should be reluctant to muddy the waters by suggesting yet another proposed itinerary but will anyway. Including London and Paris in addition to Venice and wherever else you choose within a two week period is unfair both to yourself and to the sites you plan to visit. Venice, yes, add three days in Florence, three days to recoup on Lake Como, then a trip to Langnau in central Switzerland from which you can tour Basle, Bern, Luzerne and Interlaken, none of which are more than ninety minutes travel time (by car or rail) from Langnau. You'll be overwhelmed by the artistic treasures in Florence, delighted by the scenic vistas seen from the ferries that ricochet from shoreline to shoreline on Lake Como and impressed by the awesome Alpine beauty of Switzerland. Jan M's recommendation regarding european time tables on the internet is an excellent resoource. One word of caution however. When entering desired destinations, attempt to use the native name of the city (Firenze, rather than Florence, Munchen rather than Munich for examples). Eliminates the frustration of possibly encountering error messages. While the prohibitive cost of auto rental in Italy almost dictates the use of rail for travel, Swiss auto rentals are considerably cheaper and offer the opportunity to liesurely and spontaneously visit and explore charming Alpine or farming villages. If interested, I can recommend excellent, reasonably priced hotels both in Switzerland, Florence and on the shores of Lake Como in Cernobbio.
May 20th, 1998 | 08:49 AM
#13
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Wes Fowler - thank you for great suggestions. Yes, please recommend reasonably priced hotels. We were thinking of heading south to Sorrento and Capri. You opinion on that vs. Switzerland. Please comment on time. Is 2 weeks enough? Any info greatly appreciated. tks.
May 20th, 1998 | 05:52 PM
#14
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Jean,
> I'll forward information on three excellent, reasonably priced hotels in Florence, Cernobbio on Lake Como and Langnau im Emmental, Switzerland in
a subsequent note directly to you rather than through the Fodor Forum. I'm having difficulty sending you Email directly; keep getting a message that your Email addresses are unknown. Would you contact me directly? A few years ago, on a three week trip, we spent the last two weeks in Venice,
Florence, Cernobbio and Langnau. Our trip encompassed the last two weeks in September and the first in October. Weather throughout was absolutely
delightful except for one rainy but warm day in Florence.
>
With regard to Sorrento and Capri, I can't really respond without asking a question or two first. Where are you arriving in Europe and from where
do you depart? Is this your first trip to Europe? Have you traveled in Italy before? Elsewhere in Europe? Questions are prompted by a couple of
factors. The train ride from Venice to Sorrento either via Milan, Bologna or Florence seems to encompass slightly more than seven hours,
essentially the better part of a travel day. Two days if a return is necessary. I wonder if time might not be more rewardingly spent. If your sole
European experience, past or present, is in Italy, you're denying yourself an opportunity to experience a totally different, equally intriguing culture
and society: that of Switzerland.
>
Note, too, the comments on the Fodor Forum regarding "What to do in Naples and the Isle of Capri"; some seem rather negative or bland.
Finally, for now, after living on the sand bar that constitutes the south shore of Long Island, you absolutely must encounter a mountain, either Alpine or Appenine!
> I'll forward information on three excellent, reasonably priced hotels in Florence, Cernobbio on Lake Como and Langnau im Emmental, Switzerland in
a subsequent note directly to you rather than through the Fodor Forum. I'm having difficulty sending you Email directly; keep getting a message that your Email addresses are unknown. Would you contact me directly? A few years ago, on a three week trip, we spent the last two weeks in Venice,
Florence, Cernobbio and Langnau. Our trip encompassed the last two weeks in September and the first in October. Weather throughout was absolutely
delightful except for one rainy but warm day in Florence.
>
With regard to Sorrento and Capri, I can't really respond without asking a question or two first. Where are you arriving in Europe and from where
do you depart? Is this your first trip to Europe? Have you traveled in Italy before? Elsewhere in Europe? Questions are prompted by a couple of
factors. The train ride from Venice to Sorrento either via Milan, Bologna or Florence seems to encompass slightly more than seven hours,
essentially the better part of a travel day. Two days if a return is necessary. I wonder if time might not be more rewardingly spent. If your sole
European experience, past or present, is in Italy, you're denying yourself an opportunity to experience a totally different, equally intriguing culture
and society: that of Switzerland.
>
Note, too, the comments on the Fodor Forum regarding "What to do in Naples and the Isle of Capri"; some seem rather negative or bland.
Finally, for now, after living on the sand bar that constitutes the south shore of Long Island, you absolutely must encounter a mountain, either Alpine or Appenine!
May 21st, 1998 | 10:28 AM
#15
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Posts: n/a
wesfowler - sorry home e mail giving me problems. note office address. Yes, we have been to Europe previously......Rome,Florence, paris, London, Scotland, Ireland. Last year we were in Greece and Turkey. However, I feel I woudl like to visit Venice and the lake area and yes, witzerland. However, the travel agent I have dealt with these past nunmber of years seems to be talinhg me into staying in Italy and driving south. She has plotted arrival in Milan then onto Florence. Some trains, some car travel. Itinerary still imcomplete. My decision is whether to drive south or as you suggest.....go into Switzerland. I am wondering if this is one trip we should book on our own and forget travel agents!!! Please forward hotel suggestions and comments. Am getting error message when using your e mail address.
May 21st, 1998 | 10:30 AM
#16
Guest
Posts: n/a
wesfowler - sorry home e mail giving me problems. note office address. Yes, we have been to Europe previously......Rome,Florence, paris, London, Scotland, Ireland. Last year we were in Greece and Turkey. However, I feel I woudl like to visit Venice and the lake area and yes, witzerland. However, the travel agent I have dealt with these past nunmber of years seems to be talinhg me into staying in Italy and driving south. She has plotted arrival in Milan then onto Florence. Some trains, some car travel. Itinerary still imcomplete. My decision is whether to drive south or as you suggest.....go into Switzerland. I am wondering if this is one trip we should book on our own and forget travel agents!!! Please forward hotel suggestions and comments. Am getting error message when using your e mail address.
May 22nd, 1998 | 11:09 AM
#17
Guest
Posts: n/a
Can't get through to either of your Email addresses. Here goes:
> In Florence, consider the Hotel Hermitage, 1 Vicola Marzio; telephone 287216; fax 212208. The hotel is within 100 feet of the Ponte Vecchio on
the Duomo side of the bridge and perhaps 250 feet of the Uffiizi galleries. Double room with bath and breakfast will be around $125-$150; probably
ess in late September. The hotel has some of the best views of the city from the sixth floor terrace: Ponte Vecchio, Duomo, the Arno and the Palazzo della Signoria. Windows are soundproofed; we never heard the sounds of the motor scooters so prominent in Florence.
>
You'll have no language problems with the staff; they're young women from all over Europe. Take their advice about restaurants, too. We were
directed to a restaurant in one of the streets off Via del Parione (Via del Purgatorio, perhaps) and had a superb meal.
>
In 1995 the Sunday travel section of the New York Times said "Given its location, the efficient, helpful staff and its overall charm, the
Hermitage may be one of Florence's best buys". Based on our experience, we'd agree.
>
On Lake Como, consider Cernobbio, on the west bank of the lake about fifteen minutes by bus or ferry from Como. Consider the hotel, Albergo Miralago. While it appears to be of Victorian vintage it was
completely and attractively modernized about ten years ago and is immaculate. It is rated as a second class hotel which I felt to be a rather modest understatement.
>
Room 106 is a corner room with two small balconies. The corner balcony overlooks a charmingly landscaped garden. The lakeside balcony overlooks a long promenade that leads to the ferry slip. Colorful sailboats are pulled up on the bank of the promenade. The hotel has a lovely glass walled
dining room that overlooks the promenade, the lake and the mountains on the > far shore.
The ferry richochets all over the lake from shore line to shore line all the way up to Bellagio and Menaggio. Waterside views of villages are
charming; the villages are all small and easily walkable and offer a delightful opportunity to escape from daily rigors in a most idyllic
setting. Hotel Miralago 22012 Cernobbio, Lago di Como, Italia Telefono 031/510125 Fax 248126
>
>
>
>
> In Florence, consider the Hotel Hermitage, 1 Vicola Marzio; telephone 287216; fax 212208. The hotel is within 100 feet of the Ponte Vecchio on
the Duomo side of the bridge and perhaps 250 feet of the Uffiizi galleries. Double room with bath and breakfast will be around $125-$150; probably
ess in late September. The hotel has some of the best views of the city from the sixth floor terrace: Ponte Vecchio, Duomo, the Arno and the Palazzo della Signoria. Windows are soundproofed; we never heard the sounds of the motor scooters so prominent in Florence.
>
You'll have no language problems with the staff; they're young women from all over Europe. Take their advice about restaurants, too. We were
directed to a restaurant in one of the streets off Via del Parione (Via del Purgatorio, perhaps) and had a superb meal.
>
In 1995 the Sunday travel section of the New York Times said "Given its location, the efficient, helpful staff and its overall charm, the
Hermitage may be one of Florence's best buys". Based on our experience, we'd agree.
>
On Lake Como, consider Cernobbio, on the west bank of the lake about fifteen minutes by bus or ferry from Como. Consider the hotel, Albergo Miralago. While it appears to be of Victorian vintage it was
completely and attractively modernized about ten years ago and is immaculate. It is rated as a second class hotel which I felt to be a rather modest understatement.
>
Room 106 is a corner room with two small balconies. The corner balcony overlooks a charmingly landscaped garden. The lakeside balcony overlooks a long promenade that leads to the ferry slip. Colorful sailboats are pulled up on the bank of the promenade. The hotel has a lovely glass walled
dining room that overlooks the promenade, the lake and the mountains on the > far shore.
The ferry richochets all over the lake from shore line to shore line all the way up to Bellagio and Menaggio. Waterside views of villages are
charming; the villages are all small and easily walkable and offer a delightful opportunity to escape from daily rigors in a most idyllic
setting. Hotel Miralago 22012 Cernobbio, Lago di Como, Italia Telefono 031/510125 Fax 248126
>
>
>
>
May 22nd, 1998 | 11:19 AM
#18
Guest
Posts: n/a
Jean,
I was looking in the "Eurail Guide to Train Travel in the New Europe" at approximate travel times by train within Italy and between Italy and
Switzerland. Your agent can confirm the following: Milan - Venice 2hrs, 50min; Milan - Florence 3hrs; Milan - Naples 6hrs, 30min, Milan - Como 45min; Milan - Brig, Switzerland 2hrs,30 min; Brig - Bern 2 hrs.; Bern - Langnau 40min.
>
I've shown the Milan - Bern time in total and split Milan - Brig; Brig - Bern. Why? The route Milan - Brig is one of the most scenic in Europe with mountains, deep valleys, long tunnels, high bridges and rivers. It's known as the Centovalli route (route of 100 valleys). The Brig - Bern route is also scenic though less dramatic with a lot of rolling pasturelands. However Brig offers the opportunity of leaving train travel and renting an auto at Switzerland's lower rates than Italy's. Brig also allows a split in travel time: half by train, half by car. The Italy to Switzerland route starts in Milan, on to Locarno, Domodossola, Brig and Bern. You'll start out in Italy, go to Switzerland, then Italy, then Switzerland again!
>
Why Langnau? Central location and proximity to Bern, Luzerne, Brienz and Thun, for one. Relative low cost of accommodations since it's outside of
the major cities and tourist sites, for another.
>
> I'd recommend a stopover in Langnau im Emmental at the Hotel Hirschen. The town is charming and centrally located. Bern is about 40 minutes away;
Luzerne 40 minutes to an hour. Interlaken, Thun and Brienz similarly near. The hotel dates back to the 1500's, is operated by three highly accommodating young people and has 18 double rooms with private bath. The main restaurant is superb; the young chef has a number of prestigious diplomas. The less
formal "stubli" offers excellent meals at extremely reasonable prices.
The wine cellar is stocked with thousands of bottles of wine. A generous buffet breakfast is included in the room price which is most reasonable. The
> public rooms are decorated with numerous antiques, the bedrooms are ample in size and modern in conveniences. See Karen Brown's book on Swiss
hotels and inns for specifics. The hotel phone number is 034 402 15 17; fax is 034 402 56 23.
>
Langnau is noted for its unique pottery. You'll find a number of shops operated by artisans. One word of caution: Switzerland has three "Langnau's", Langnau am Albis, Langnau bel Schachen and Langnau im
Emmental. You want the last. It by the way is the main distribution point for Emmental (Swiss) cheese which perhaps explains why such a small village
has such a huge railroad freight yard.
>
>
>
I was looking in the "Eurail Guide to Train Travel in the New Europe" at approximate travel times by train within Italy and between Italy and
Switzerland. Your agent can confirm the following: Milan - Venice 2hrs, 50min; Milan - Florence 3hrs; Milan - Naples 6hrs, 30min, Milan - Como 45min; Milan - Brig, Switzerland 2hrs,30 min; Brig - Bern 2 hrs.; Bern - Langnau 40min.
>
I've shown the Milan - Bern time in total and split Milan - Brig; Brig - Bern. Why? The route Milan - Brig is one of the most scenic in Europe with mountains, deep valleys, long tunnels, high bridges and rivers. It's known as the Centovalli route (route of 100 valleys). The Brig - Bern route is also scenic though less dramatic with a lot of rolling pasturelands. However Brig offers the opportunity of leaving train travel and renting an auto at Switzerland's lower rates than Italy's. Brig also allows a split in travel time: half by train, half by car. The Italy to Switzerland route starts in Milan, on to Locarno, Domodossola, Brig and Bern. You'll start out in Italy, go to Switzerland, then Italy, then Switzerland again!
>
Why Langnau? Central location and proximity to Bern, Luzerne, Brienz and Thun, for one. Relative low cost of accommodations since it's outside of
the major cities and tourist sites, for another.
>
> I'd recommend a stopover in Langnau im Emmental at the Hotel Hirschen. The town is charming and centrally located. Bern is about 40 minutes away;
Luzerne 40 minutes to an hour. Interlaken, Thun and Brienz similarly near. The hotel dates back to the 1500's, is operated by three highly accommodating young people and has 18 double rooms with private bath. The main restaurant is superb; the young chef has a number of prestigious diplomas. The less
formal "stubli" offers excellent meals at extremely reasonable prices.
The wine cellar is stocked with thousands of bottles of wine. A generous buffet breakfast is included in the room price which is most reasonable. The
> public rooms are decorated with numerous antiques, the bedrooms are ample in size and modern in conveniences. See Karen Brown's book on Swiss
hotels and inns for specifics. The hotel phone number is 034 402 15 17; fax is 034 402 56 23.
>
Langnau is noted for its unique pottery. You'll find a number of shops operated by artisans. One word of caution: Switzerland has three "Langnau's", Langnau am Albis, Langnau bel Schachen and Langnau im
Emmental. You want the last. It by the way is the main distribution point for Emmental (Swiss) cheese which perhaps explains why such a small village
has such a huge railroad freight yard.
>
>
>
May 22nd, 1998 | 12:22 PM
#19
Guest
Posts: n/a
Jean.
> We were in Langnau at the end of September some years ago. (We've been there more than once; most recently last August). At dinner our first night there, the then proprietress of Hotel Hirschen asked us what had impressed us most in our travels. I mentioned being awakened by the sound of cowbells in a little village in Bavaria. She said we'd see cows on the hillsides outside of town but hear no bells. The following morning we were awakened by cowbells! Parading through town, to the one and only
sizeable parking lot, were hundreds of Jersey cows, all belled and most with ornate floral head pieces. Each was tied to a parking meter. Farm wagons pulled
into town, tables and benches were set up, sumptuous foods were unloaded.
Farmers and their families commenced to enjoy a cow judging contest that lasted till three in the afternoon. We didn't see the proprietress that
day. Nor did we see her the following day when the whole ritual was repeated, this time with Gray Swiss cows. That evening we encountered the proprietress. "What's with the cows?" we asked. "Ah", says she,
"tomorrow, horses!" I anticipated Budweiser Clydesdales or some such mammoth work animal. Instead I witnessed, much to my surprise, the
judging of thoroughbreds by officers of the Swiss cavalry. While my wife accummulated souvenirs in Bern and Luzerne, I ende up with an interesting
collection of photographed belled and bedecked cows all tethered to parking meters. Stayed in Langnau three days just to partake of a totally unanticipated and delightful experience!
>
> We were in Langnau at the end of September some years ago. (We've been there more than once; most recently last August). At dinner our first night there, the then proprietress of Hotel Hirschen asked us what had impressed us most in our travels. I mentioned being awakened by the sound of cowbells in a little village in Bavaria. She said we'd see cows on the hillsides outside of town but hear no bells. The following morning we were awakened by cowbells! Parading through town, to the one and only
sizeable parking lot, were hundreds of Jersey cows, all belled and most with ornate floral head pieces. Each was tied to a parking meter. Farm wagons pulled
into town, tables and benches were set up, sumptuous foods were unloaded.
Farmers and their families commenced to enjoy a cow judging contest that lasted till three in the afternoon. We didn't see the proprietress that
day. Nor did we see her the following day when the whole ritual was repeated, this time with Gray Swiss cows. That evening we encountered the proprietress. "What's with the cows?" we asked. "Ah", says she,
"tomorrow, horses!" I anticipated Budweiser Clydesdales or some such mammoth work animal. Instead I witnessed, much to my surprise, the
judging of thoroughbreds by officers of the Swiss cavalry. While my wife accummulated souvenirs in Bern and Luzerne, I ende up with an interesting
collection of photographed belled and bedecked cows all tethered to parking meters. Stayed in Langnau three days just to partake of a totally unanticipated and delightful experience!
>
