deedeedee

Going to Venice from Florence in Nov. and wondering if there is much of a difference

between 1st class & 2nd class on the euro star. Do you get to keep your luggage

close to where you sit ? Does the train make many stops on the way and is your

luggage safe ? Thanks

Michael

The second class trains we took from Rome to Naples, and a few days later from Naples to Pistoia all had overhead racks that could hold and 22" suitcase.

didan

Our group of 4 went from Venice to Rome (with a stop in Firenze) and, a few days later, Rome to Naples, in second class and it was fine. I'm 6-1 240 and was perfectly comfortable. Our group of four had its own little pod (two pairs of seats facing each other with a table in between).

As for luggage: On the Venice-Rome leg we were lucky and there was a little luggage area right next to our "pod," so we put our bigger bags there (smaller bags overhead). On Rome-Naples, we barely caught the train (it was rolling before we got to our seats; Italian trains run on time!) and the luggage area at the end of our car was full. But we had no problem getting even our biggest bags into the overhead above our seats.

IIRC, there were maybe two stops between Venice and Florence.

That's our experience; hope it helps. Others here can probably speak on how it compares to first class.

kraines

I always go second class with no problems.

greg

To see the pictures, goto http://www.seat61.com/Italy.htm and look for the word "Frecciarossa." The actual cars are not this nice, but you get the sense of the seating differences.

The difference between train classes are not as profound as the intercontinental airplanes. However, there are differences: less people, bigger seat, more space to put luggage around you, etc. For some people, the differences are not significant enough to merit paying a premium. Whether it makes enough difference for you depends on how much luggage you are carrying with out, the number of people in your group, occupancy rate of your particular train, and your value, etc. Of course, there is also an element of chance: you might be stuck on a full train sitting next to others carrying a lot of luggage, so there is no space to keep your luggage with you if you are the last one to get on board. This only happened to me so far on a trip a week before Easter.

deedeedee

Thanks for the info

GAC

Here is a rundown of the differences between first and second classes on Trenitalia trains:

http://www.roninrome.com/transportat...rsus-2nd-class

PalenQ

GAC's pictures show what to me is the crucial difference between first and second class in Italy and other countries - only in first class do you have seats with a window and an aisle - seats in rows of one seat per row.

these seats can face each other so a couple can both have an aisle and a window with a table in between them and not ever be bothered by some stranger sitting next to them or someone wanting to get out to go to the toilet, snack bar, etc.

These so-called isolated seats to me are priceless - I can stick my long legs out in the aisle and also have a window view.

Seats are also significantly larger in first class for larger frames and rearends - less seats per car means more room for luggage storage as well.

All in all a much more relaxed ride and the reason Zillions of Italians happily pay extra to ride in first class.

Now many folks are satisfied with 2nd class and that is fine but my feeling is that anyone who says there is little difference between classes simply has not ridden in first class.

check out these sites for more details - www.ricksteves.com; www.seat61.com (Man in Seat 61 said on a prveious post that he too was an afficanado of first class train travel) and www.budgeteuropetravel.com.

bilboburgler

I think its the silver arrow not the eurostar.

GAC

Bear in mind, however, that, while there is indeed more seat, shoulder and leg room in first class on the AV, ES and ES-City trains (as well as those few "regionale" trains which have first class railcars), this is often not the case on the traditional Intercity (IC) trains, where often the only significant difference is in the amount of leg room. In fact, on traditional IC trains with traditional separate compartments (each with a sliding glass door, and each seating six), the seat and shoulder room in second class is no different than in first class. No different at all. Only the leg room is greater in first class (because there are nine compartments versus eleven). While the seat fabric on the first class seats is usually nicer, and while there are often fewer passengers in first class than in second class on the IC trains, many people don't find that there is a great difference in seating quality for the IC trains with traditional seating arrangements.

Many decades ago, second class compartments on the IC trains seated eight, versus six in first class compartments. This distinction was abolished in the 1960s. Since then, the compartments seat six, regardless of class of service.

A large majority of foreign tourists in Italy travel on the more prevalent AV, ES and ES-City trains rather than on the slower but cheaper IC trains, so this nuance is often overlooked.

Also, on the traditional IC trains (with traditional compartments), the amount of luggage room in first and second class is absolutely (100%) identical! No joke!

On the faster trains, there is often more luggage room in first class because there are fewer passengers in first class railcars (and sometimes, but not always, the end-of-railcar special luggage racks in first class are larger).

Michael

<i>In fact, on traditional IC trains with traditional separate compartments (each with a sliding glass door, and each seating six),</i>

I haven't seen one of those in years.

GAC

They are still around (but declining)!!!

zeppole

GAC,

When are they going to be replaced on the trains the run to Genova?

It is impossible for two adults to sit opposite each other in those six-seater compartments.

Simply put, even on the newest high speed trains, if you have long legs, you will be more comfortable in first class.

GAC

The Intercity trains are slowly being phased out. Currently, they still operate on the following routes:

• Torino - Genova
• Milano – Genova –Ventimiglia/Livorno
• Roma – Napoli – Reggio Calabria - Sicilia
• Roma - Bari/Taranto
• Milano/Venezia/Trieste – Bologna – Firenze – Roma – Napoli
• Venezia/Bolzano – Bologna – Ancona – Pescara – Bari - Lecce
• Milano – Bari/Crotone

As far as I know, the IC railcars with individual compartments are no longer being built (too expensive). The new standard on all new railcars is the open-railcar seating arrangement, where second class seating has four-across, and first class has three-across. The result is that the new configuration gives more legroom, but LESS seat/shoulder room, compared to the traditional Intercity second class railcars. However, the seats on the traditional IC trains are not ergonomically contoured, whereas those on the newer fast trains are.

I believe that the IC trains will eventually be replaced by the ES-City trains, which travel at the same speed, but have the new seating configurations. The ES-City railcars typically have 52 seats in first class and 72 seats in second class.

Some older travellers actually prefer the individual compartments of the IC trains to the open-railcar seating of the new railcars (which are considered to be too noisy).

It's interesting to note that the refurbished IC railcars which have been assigned to the "regionale veloce" trains between Rome and Florence have a hybrid seating arrangement: open-railcar seating in the center, and closed compartment seating at both ends. That way, passengers can choose their preferred seating arrangement.

Today, people choose Intercity trains (where available) as a lower-cost alternative to the faster but more expensive trains.

kybourbon

I prefer the old slow R trains over the IC trains. I hate those cramped 6 person compartments.

deedeedee - If you don't mind paying 35-40% more, then travel 1st class. If you do, keep in mind this train ride is only 2 hours. There is space behind the seats for luggage, as well as overhead, mid car and at the end of cars in both classes. Here's a pic of 2nd class on the high speed trains.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Fr...ssainterno.jpg

zeppole

Thanks, GAC. I like the old six-seater first class compartments so long as no more than 4 people are sitting in them. But when they are full, it is really difficult if you have long legs, and there often isn't enough space in the luggage racks (which are up too high for many shorter people to use).

One nice feature of the compartments is that people will leave them when they talk on their cell phones.

Any chance someday Trenitalia will offer an option of "silent" cars like they do in some other places?

Ackislander

I would actually hope for more information on our experience from those of you who are knowledgeable:

on a regional train from Bologna to Verona, first class passengers all had seats. Second class passengers appeared not to. Some stood, some sat on their suitcases between cars, and some came into the first class car until the conductor threw them out.

This was the day before a railway strike, so it may have been exceptional.

But my question is "How exceptional?"

GAC

It is not exceptional for some regionale commuter trains on high-density routes to get crowded during commute hours. Consequently, passengers with LUGGAGE travelling on the regionale trains on high-density routes during commute hours may want to travel in a first class railcar (IF IF available). Do bear in mind that there are relatively few regionale lines where first class is offered these days (sometimes on select trains only). The Trenitalia website will identify which regionale trains offer both first and second class. Remember too that (only on the regionale trains), first class but not second class seats pivot forward to provide a modest recline. This can be a significant motivator to choose first class on longer trips on the regionale trains. There are no reserved seats on any of the regionale trains, so people can and do stand at times.

PalenQ

Here's a pic of 2nd class on the high speed trains.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Fr...ssainterno.jpg

should say IME a pix of 2nd class on some high speed trains but not nearly all

and again in first class you can have an aisle and a window seat - a row of a single seat - priceless to me

apply the same standard to rail travel as you do to hotels and restaurants IMO - why not go in more comfort - and that pix bourbon constantly shows in no way represents what real trains look like - that is a staged publicity photo from Trenitalia - the best possible conditions.

kybourbon

>>>and that pix bourbon constantly shows in no way represents what real trains look like <<<

It's exactly how the fast trains are in 2nd class. I ride the trains in Italy every trip and they are as pictured. No best possible conditions, just a typical train. I've rarely been on a full train even in high season except for the old slow R trains or IC trains.

>>>apply the same standard to rail travel as you do to hotels and restaurants IMO -<<<

You don't seem to as you often post you stay in hostels and budget hotels. Most people would rather spend on where they are sleeping/staying 8-10 hours than a 2 hour train ride.