Maura

I've been trying to figure out various train and subway schedules and am getting confused. First, can someone tell me what and where the Paris Est station is? We're taking a train from Heidelberg and it's given as the arrival station. We'll be staying at the Hotel Muguet (as recommended by many on this site). Can we take the Metro from the train station to the hotel? If so, where is the Metro located from the Paris Est station? <BR> <BR>Second, while in Paris (we're only there 3 days) we want to visit Versailles and Chartres. Is it possible to visit both in one day? We're traveling with an 11-year old who probably isn't going to want to spend too many hours in any one place, but we would like him to experience at least a little of each. If we can do both in one day, how do we get from Versailles to Chartres and then back to our hotel? <BR> <BR>Finally, at another point in our travels we'll be going from Heidelberg to Muerren, Switzerland. I'm trying to decide if we should take an overnight train so we'll have more time in the mountains. All of the trains listed as overnight trains say they have one or more changes. Do we really have to keep getting up and changing to new trains? Doesn't that defeat the purpose of a sleeper? Or, should we just take an early morning train to arrive by early afternoon? <BR> <BR>Thanks for any help you can provide. My apologies if I'm just being incredibly stupid about all of this.

Christina

The Gare de l'Est is in NE Paris on the Right Bank side, not too far from Gare du Nord, actually. All Parisian train stations have metro/RER stops right at them, signs should be easily visible, so you can go from there to wherever, although not necessarily easily or without lots of transfers. I don't know the closest stop to your hotel but am guessing it's Ecole Militaire or La Motte-Piquet (which are on the same line); if so, you will have to take the metro from Gare de l'Est a couple stops and transfer to the number 8 line which has those two on it; I'm not sure which station would be best to go to, you can go to either Republique or Strasbourg-St-Denis (a little closer) to transfer. Given you have three people, I would not do this as it's not worth the trouble for a few dollars savings (maybe you'd save about $20 total over the price of three metro tickets); I'd just take a cab. You could go to Versailles and Chartres in one day if you don't usually spend much time viewing things at museums and things like that; it will be a long and tiring day, but you could do it if you only want to spend an hour or two at Versailles--Chartres won't take as much time as Versailles, as the church is the only thing you'll want to see, I'd guess. I think you can do both those by an organized tour but it isn't quite as straightforward on your own due to several different kinds of train lines go to Versailles but not Chartres, although it's not that bad if you're good with directions and maps. You can take the RER C train (suburban rail) to Versailles Rive Gauche, that's the most convenient and you can walk to it from the station. Then, you'd have to go from Versailles to Chartres by regular train which is a different station in Versailles (Chantiers rail station), you may need a cab to get to it from the chateau, it's further I think. Chartres to Paris is easy by train, a little under an hour and goes to Montparnasse train station, not too far from your hotel (just take the metro line 5 from there to La Motte Piquet station). As Versailles can be very crowded, you should get a Paris museum card so you don't need to wait in line, I think that's the best thing if you only want to spend a few hours there. I'm not real sure but I think your child will need one too as kids are free in some museums, but I don't think they are at Versailles. It sounds like you need a good guidebook as a good one should have a map with the rail lines and stations in Paris on it. If you don't have one at all, I'd definitely get one even though you're only there 3 days. I don't know about the train thing.

Thyra

Most likely you know this already, but just to ease your confusion. Paris Est means Paris East Terminal.. and Paris Nord means Paris North Terminal. Bon Voyage!

Bob Brown

The Muguet is located about halfway between the Ecole Militaire and Latour-Maubourg stations on Line #8. The Muguet is on the left bank not far from Hotel des Invalides <BR> <BR>Gare de l'Est is in the north central part of Paris, slightly east of a north-south line that equally divides the city, which puts it in the 10th Arr about 2.5 K north of the Seine. Gare de l'Est is at the north end of Boulevard Strassbourg, which runs south from the station directly to the Seine. If you continue, you cross over to the Palais of Justice, which encompasses Ste. Chapelle. (Now that I have told you, I hope it helps.) <BR> <BR>To get to either of the two Metro stops convenient to Hotel Muguet, you have two choices: 1. Take Line 4, direction Port D'Orleans and change at the station named Strasbourg St. Denis to Line <BR>8 in the direction of Balard. <BR>2. Take Line 7, direction <BR>Villajuif, Louis Aragon and change at the Opera station for Line 8. <BR> <BR>But let me ask you a rather blunt question: Have you considered the chore involved in hauling luggage 3 people around Paris Metro stations?? Most 11 year olds are more of a hindrance than a help in that kind of situation because you have to keep up with them, too as well as figure out how to buy a ticket, find the right platform, and then locate the right station to make the change. (I have a 10 year old grandson and a 7 year old one.) <BR> <BR>As for trying to see Chartres and Versailles in the same day, I guess it is possible. Trains to Chartre leave from Gare Montparnasse and the trip takes about an hour to the station plus a walk to the cathedral. To do the Cathedral justice, you should allow at least 2 hours, I don't care how antsy your 11 year old gets, because the Cathedral is a masterpiece of architecture and stained glass that somehow was saved through two World Wars. <BR>If you decide you want to run the marathon and do both, you can return to Gare Montparnasse and then take Line 6 in the direction of Charles DeGaulle Etoile. Change at Station Champ de Mars - Tour Eiffel for RER Line C6 to Versailles Rive Gauche. (Versailles RG) <BR>The Palace is open until 6:30. So if you get an early start to Chartres, you could do it in one day, but I don't know why you would want to. Seeing the palace and the grounds easily takes 3 to 4 hours, unless you just want to say you have seen it. <BR> <BR>I see no point in trying to take a sleeper train to Murren. In fact, I would go so far as to say it is senseless. Your question implies that you are under the impression that you take a train directly to Murren. Well you don't!! <BR> <BR>The total trip is a little over 6 hours and you will have to make at least 3 changes of conveyences to get there. I have been to Murren; in fact I have scheduled a 3rd week in Lauterbrunnen this summer, which is the change point for Murren. <BR>You will have to change at Interlaken Ost to the Bob train to Lauterbrunnen. <BR>Then you either take the furnicular up the hillside to the little train from the Grutschalp station to Murren. Or you get on the Post Bus in Lauterbrunnen and ride to Stechelberg where you take the Luftseilbahn up to Murren. <BR>(BOB = Bernese Oberlandbahn) <BR> <BR>

Tony

Maura.. <BR> <BR>There are trains from Heidelberg as follows: <BR>Dep.Heidelberg 0808, change at Mannheim,Bern and Interlaken Ost, arrive Muerren 1430. <BR>Dep Heidelberg 0907, change at Mannheim, Basle and Inerlaken Ost, arrive 1530. <BR>On both trains there is also one change between Interlaken and Muerren. <BR>It's quite an attractive train journey - I definitely would'nt attempt it at night.

Maura

Thank you to everyone who replied to my questions and for explaining the Paris Metro system. Based on your feedback, we'll use a taxi to get to our hotel in Paris, allow one day for visiting Versailles, and a half day for Chartres, and take a daytime train(s) to Muerren.

Bob Brown

The taxi is more expensive, but after last year in Paris, I think you made the right choice. Paris Metro stations are often characterized by long tunnels, lots of steps, and crowded conditions. <BR>When I was young and had more brawn than brain and more brain than money, I toted two suitcases around the Metro stations. But after 7 weeks of rambling, my arms were equal to the task! <BR> <BR>As for Versailles, there are the inevitable crowds. We got there before the doors opened last year, but the "mob" overtook us before we got to the Hall of Mirrors. Some travel authors suggest going later in the day, perhaps entering the Palace about 4 PM and staying until you are asked to leave. <BR>The idea being that the organized tour groups have headed elsewhere by then. <BR>Allowing more time makes sense to me because there is always more to see than you originally thought was out there. <BR>Paris, to me, is a fascination every second. More than once I had a destination in mind, but I was late getting there because something very interesting intervened. I know last year we were headed to Musee d'Orsay, but got distracted by a farmers' market set up along Boulevard Raspail. We finally got to Musee d'Orsay, but after the lines had formed. No problem, we saw all we could take in. <BR>As for Muerren, you can check the schedule yourself at www.sbb.ch <BR>There is an English version. I glanced at it and it looks to me like there are numerous changes enroute between Heidelberg and Muerren, and you couldn't take a night train if you wanted to. Besides, the ride from Bern to Interlaken is lovely in the day time. Hopefully you will find one of the double decker cars when you get on the train in Bern. If you sit upstairs, you will be up a little higher and can see a little more. <BR> <BR>Make sure you go to the Interlaken Ost station before getting off to change trains for Lauterbrunnen. <BR>The Lauterbrunnen train stops twice: <BR>Once at Wilsderswil, where you can take the choo choo up to Schynige Platte, a classic view point, and again at Zweiluetschinen, where the train divides. Half of it goes to Grindelwald and th other half goes to Lauterbrunnen. When you get on the train at Interlaken Ost, make sure you select a car marked "Lauterbrunnen." There are metal signs hanging on the sides of the cars, so check the destination. <BR>Once you get to Lauterbrunnen, that is the end of the line for the regular train. You will probably walk up the hill, go across the street and enter the fernicular station. There you get on a cross between an elevator and train car to be hoisted up the valley wall to Grutschalp, where you then change to a little train that takes you along the valley shelf to Muerren. <BR> <BR>While you are there, I suggest that you descend to the valley floor and visit Trummbelbach Falls. These falls are recessed well into the rock, so that they are hidden from view. In the summer, the flow of water should be at a peak because these falls drain the glaciers coming off of the Jungfrau and the Moench.

Bob Brown

I need to amend my original post in the section where made a suggestion on how to get from Montparnasse to Versailles. <BR>Even if you decided to return to your hotel from Chartres, my suggestion of where to catch the RER to Versailles Rive Gauche is probably wrong. <BR>I suggested taking the Metro, line 6, to Champ des Mars/Tour Eiffel. Technically, that is not a stop on that line, if my map is accurate. The name of the Metro stop that is co-located with Champ des Mars/Tour Eiffel is Bir Hakeim. <BR>If you return to your hotel and continue to Versailles from there, the best RER station is Invalides. I took the RER from there last year; so I know from experience that you can reach Versailles RG from there. We had to take a long walk from the Metro platform to the RER train, however.

Maura

I want to thank everyone again for your detailed responses. I've been checking out various web sites and looking at different guidebooks, but there really is nothing like being able to ask a question and hear from experienced travelers. As a result, I'm feeling much more comfortable about the Paris and Switzerland parts of our trip. Now, I just need to finish planning the Germany portion. Which brings up one more question. Has anyone been Trier? The guidebooks make it sound quite interesting, but it looks like it is about 2 1/2 to 3 hours by train from Heidelberg (our base). Is it worth it? We'd be doing it as a day trip. Thanks again.

Bob Brown

It has been many moons since I was in Trier. So more recent visitors will be a better position to comment than I. <BR> <BR>While you are in Muerren, you might want to consider taking the Luftseilbahn ride to the restaurant on top of the Schilthorn. It is the classic ride in the area. (It is a little pricey, but the view on a clear day is almost beyond description.) <BR> <BR>If you are into easy hiking, I have one to suggest. Walk, or take the Luftseilbahn (literally air rope train), down to Gimmelwald. From Gimmelwald take the trail to the Sefinental and the Kilchbalm. You wander along an easy trail through farms and gates to a dead end deep in the heart of the mountains where the cliffs tower vertically above you. The "dead end" as I call it is a glacial cirque carved into the bedrock of the Gspaltenhorn. It features snow banks, wild flowers, waterfalls, remnant glacial ice, a lovely stream, a view of the Jungfrau, and that quintessential ingredient for a Swiss mountain hike: cows, and lots of them with bells tinkling right and left. <BR> <BR>When you go through the gates, be sure to replace the slats. These are not swinging gates. <BR> <BR>We went last year and sat there for a long time enjoying our lunch and the surroundings. I started to count the waterfalls, but gave up after 20 minutes -- too many of them. (Don't worry, the cows will not bother you if you don't bother them. Just walk around them, carefully.)

Tony

Maura.. <BR>Your question regarding Trier. Whilst Trier is an interesting little city, I'm not sure that it is worth the trek to and from Heidelberg, as you will be passing equally interesting places en route. <BR>Are you planning a Rhine Gorge Cruise? <BR>If not, you really should, much more rewarding than Trier itself. <BR>An easy way to do this from Heidelberg, is by train to Bingen, there 1/2 trains per hour, taking about 75 minutes, some direct, some with a connecting change. You can board a KD Rhine Line Day cruise at Bingen, to cruise to either Boppard, or all the way to Koblenz.From either Boppard or Koblenz there are regular trains back to Heidelberg, journey time about 2 hours, with 1 change usually. If you decide to take this cruise your Eurail pass covers the cost, but you will need to plan a little to catch a train that connects with the cruises, there are two or three cruises departing Bingen mid to late morning.

CJ

I'm going to take advantage of all the great expertise shown here to ask a few questions of my own: <BR>1. We have reservations on a TGV train directly out of CDG to Lyon. Will it be easy for us to find the train in the airport? Is it the RER line that goes into the city? <BR> <BR>2. Traveling from Lyon to Bordeaux, based on the french rail website info, it looks like its shorter in time to go back to Paris, then down to Bordeaux rather than going across the country. I would rather see the countryside, but the schedule would require leaving the Alps very early in the morning. Does the Paris route seem like the best choice? <BR>3. Although we have seat reservations for the first leg of our journey, I heard that its cheaper to make reservations in-country. However, I'm worried about waiting since we're traveling during the French holiday period. Thoughts? <BR> <BR>4. Any suggestions for day trips to Geneva or Italy during our time in the Alps? <BR>

Maura

Tony, thank you for the information about the Rhine Cruise. We are planning to do one, so I appreciate the details. We're going to be in the Heidelberg area for about 6 days total (staying with friends) so I'm trying to plan daytrips from there, using the train. So far we've got Heidelberg, the Rhine River, the Neckar River, and probably Trier. If anyone has any other suggestions I'd appreciate you posting them. Thanks again for all the help!

Kristin

To CJ -- We were in France in May and June. Based on our experience, I would say that yes, it is often best to go thru Paris. We had a similar situation and the best connections were back thru Paris. Re: which train out of CDG -- no, it is not the RER. It is the TGV station, which is fairly clearly marked. Just keep looking and asking. Re: seat reservations. If it is a holiday time, I would definitely make the reservations ASAP even if it costs a little more. It isn't much fun to have to find some other connections rather than the ones you have determined are the best ones. Just my opinion, of course. Have a great time! We did. <BR>

Tony

CJ... <BR> <BR>Trains from Lyon to Bordeaux. Whilst it is about 2 hours quicker to go to Bordeaux via Paris, you do have the problem of changing railway stations in Paris from Gare de Lyon to Montparnasse,which could be a bit of a hassle with luggage. <BR>On the other hand there is a TGV from Lyon at 0958 to Marseille, arriving 1235, which connects into a direct Bordeaux train, leaving Marseille at 1254, arriving Bordeaux 1828. This is a longer journey by about 2 hours, but it will be much easier, and it will also be a lot more rewarding scenically. To give you an idea on a map the trtain from Marseille passes through Arles, Montpelier, Narbonne and Toulouse. <BR>Where abouts in the Alps will you be - it could be possible to bypass Lyons en route to Marseille - we could also comment on your day trips question to Geneva and Italy possibly. <BR>You should probably reserve seats whilst in France (at any station). You have to reserve for TGVs anyway.

CJ

Thanks everyone for the fabulous, detailed replies. This site is a wealth of information! To Tony: your idea of going through Marseille is great. We are actually staying in Vauganay, a very small village near Bourg d'oissans, outside of Grenoble. I will check the train schedules from Grenoble. My only worry is how busy that area will be on Aug. 5 - right in the middle of French holiday and near the coast! Any comments on day trips appreciates. I've tried to post questions on the Alps on this BB before without response.

Tony

C.J. <BR> <BR>There are two trains from Grenoble to Marseille, that will suit you, both by-passing Lyons. <BR>The 0836 from Grenoble, changing into a TGV at Valence, arriving Marseille 1203. <BR>The 0903 from Grenoble, changing into a TGV at Avignon,arriving Marseille 1237. <BR>I'll dig out my old notes on trips around the Alps, and if I find anything worthwhile I'll post it. <BR>Tony