billsein

Hi
I'm planning to visit Europe for whole December with my parents. I will be coming to Europe from Edinburgh.

1. Lisbon
2. Madrid
3. Paris
4. Rome
5. Venice
6. Vienna
7. Prague
8. Berlin
9. Switzerland

I'm still doubting whether to take plane or train between all the destinations due to winter season (perhaps there might be a flight cancellation or delay due to the weather), airport transfer to/from city and the expansive train tickets. Can anyone suggest me what should I do to both minimize the budget and travel risk..

Thanks,
Bill

Robert2533

As far as I know, the UK is still part of Europe, so you just going to go across the channel by train or plane.

Overall, I would stick with traveling by rail during December. It would be much better than hanging out in overcrowded airports.

Have you given any though as to an itinerary other than the list of major cities? Do you know where you want to be when?

asps

If the worst comes to the worst, both planes and trains may get in trouble with bad weather. Fog affects planes more than trains, snow affects trains more than planes. Very bad snow brings everything to a standstill. So you may choose the itinerary you like more, maybe do not plan for too tight connection and keep your finger crossed. Another way to minimize trouble is reducing the number of travel legs by keeping under control the number of your destinations.

PalenQ

Yes rail with maybe one or two long-distance flights mixed in if you can find a cheap one. And if going to all those places by train I'd seriously look at a Eurailpass, which is first class and that has significant benefits but even compared to regular 2nd class tickets it will still save money if going to all those places.

In most countries you can still hop on any ole train any ole time - complete flexibility - just hop on. A few countries like Italy, Spain and France do demand seat reservations before boarding and these cost 3-10 euros a piece usually. Passes cannot be used by European residents so not sold at stations in Europe save at a few and then the price is about 20% above U.S./Canadian prices.

For lots of great info on European trains and passes check these IMO fine sites: www.budgeteuropetravel.com; www.ricksteves.com and www.seat61.com.

PalenQ

Trains are not immune to disruptions either in places like Germany IME - last time I was in Germany by train in December there was some freezing rain that caused chaos in the whole network - unusual for snow in most of Germany so a little can upset the ole apple cart.

check out the fabulous Christmas Markets in German towns and Vienna too!

billsein

@robert, well, I do have a full itineraries actually..my first itineraries is partially plane and train.

1. Fly from Edinburgh to Lisbon and stay there for about 3 nights. Maybe a day trip to Porto also
2. Train from Lisbon to Madrid which will also include a tour to Granada and Cordoba. Will stay in either cities for 4 nights.
3. Fly from Madrid to Rome. Stay here for 2 nights. Then I will take a train to Venice and stay for another 2 nights. This also might include a day trip t Vatican City and Pisa
4. Take a night train from Venice to Vienna. Then, stay in Vienna for 2 nights.
5. Train from Vienna to Prague. Probably will stay in Prague for 3 nights.
6. Train to Berlin from Vienna and stay here for 3 nights. Probably include a trip to other Germany cities
7. Then, I plan to either take a train or fly to Switzerland, and stay in Interlaken for 3 nights.
8. Train of fly to Paris, 2 nights in Paris before going back to UK.

Another itineraries which is flying to certain destination are (this is probably cheaper then train, but, might cost high for airport transfer):
1. Edinburgh to Milan - will take train to Venice and Rome
2. Rome to Madrid - take a train to Granada and Cordoba
3. Madrid to Lisbon
4. Lisbon to Geneva - train to Interlaken, day trip to Jungfrau and Bern
5. Geneva to Prague - then train to Vienna. Will include day trip to other cities also
6. Vienna to Berlin - day trip to other Germany cities
7. Berlin to Paris
8. Back to UK

The reason I highlighting the major cities only is actually because I will travel with my parents (both are 58 and 59). The schedule might not be too tight for them. The day trip is just an optional if it is too tiring for them, they can just relax in the cities.

nytraveler

Oh honey - do you need a map! And a train schedule!

You do know that 2 nights in a city means that you have just one day there?

And that seeing Granada and Cordoba on the way from Lisbon to Madrid - isn;t on the way there at all - a different direction, and you have missed Seville - and will have a few hours only in some of these places.

Also you don;t see Vatican City or Pisa from Venice. Vatican City is IN the center of Rome - you can only see it there. And Pisa is on the opposite side of Italy from Venice.

And from 5 to 6 I'm not sure if you're going from Prague to Berlin - or first going back to Vienna and then on to Berlin.

You can - if you are lucky - get to all of thee places - but I doubt your ability to see much of anything.

Suggest that - just as an exercise - you go to the bahn.de site and just look at the train schedules for all of these trips (Lisbon to Madrid looks like it takes about 12 hours) to see what is really possible.

billsein

@nytraveler, I plan to stay in Madrid for about 5 nights though. There would be a day trip to Granada and Cordoba. Same like Rome and Venice. I plan to stay like 3 nights in Rome, so that I can have a day trip to Vatican City or Pisa. Then, I will take a train to Venice and spend 2 or 3 nights there. Then, from Venice, I plan to take a night train to Vienna and spend 3 nights there. Then, to Prague for 4 nights. From Prague, I will take a train to Berlin and spend 4 nights there.

Cowboy1968

Madrid
With 5 nights, day trips are not a bad idea. But instead of having two quite distant destinations on your wishlist (and Granada would be a bit too much as a day trip from Madrid for my taste), you could also check if you don't like closer places as much: Toledo, Escorial, Aranjuez. Or one of the closer destinations plus Cordoba.

Rome
As said before, the Vatican is a sight within Rome, not a day trip destination. Though you can spend all day there. Pisa, OTOH, is not a feasible day trip - neither from Rome nor from Venice.
But Rome will keep you busy for 3 nights anyway.
I don't know your taste, but why did you allocate 4 nights to Prague and only 3 nights to Rome, just 2 nights if you did that trip to Pisa?

Venice would not be my first choice in December, but if you have no problem with somewhat cool and rainy weather it should be okay (at least travelwise on that route from Rome to Vienna via Venice).

kerouac

I don't know if you really understand how much territory you are trying to cover. Portugal and Spain should normally not be in the same trip as Austria and the Czech Republic, not to mention all of the other places, unless you are travelling more than a month.

PalenQ

Unless of course they fly from Madrid and Lisbon, etc to Vienna or Prague.

PalenQ

billsein - If you take all those trips by train outlined look at the Eurail Select (Saver if two or more traveling together on one pass at all times) Pass, a 4-country pass valid in Spain, Italy, Austria and Germany - there is a maximum of 4 countries this year on Eurail Select Passes - pay the cheap Czech portions out of pockets - if over 25 the pass is automatically first class and IME of decades of incessant European rail travel tells me anything it's that there are, especially for the traveler carrying around typically way too much luggage, benefits to first class train travel - bigger seats and often more empty seats in my experience - making stowing bags easier.
With a pass you can chose your trains as you go along - no weeks advance in stone bookings required - in Italy and Sapin you will need seat reservations but those IME are easy to get just about anytime up to the time of the train, especially in first class.
If under 26 then there is a cheaper Eurail Select Youthpass.

Sassafrass

Another poster already tried, but I will emphasize some things.
Granada is way, way too far for a day trip from Madrid!
Pisa is absolutely not a day trip from Venice or Rome!

You could do it, but Cordoba is not a good day trip from Madrid. Toledo or Segovia is better.
The Vatican is not a day trip from Rome. It is in Rome, so just part of things to see in Rome.

Flying all the way from Madrid to Rome to spend only one day is a huge waste of money and time.

Remember that it will be winter, even in Southern Europe, so days will be very short. It will be dark very early, cutting into sight seeing time.

It might be better to go to fewer places and see more things in those places, rather than going to so many and seeing little. Your trip, as planned, will be a lot of expensive moving around and not much sight seeing.

Seriously, you do need a good map, but also need to assess what you actually want to see in different cities and figure out how long that will take, and how long it will take to get from place to place.

PalenQ

For Granada or Cordoba, both of which will take all of a whole day base yourself in Seville, which in any case is one of the finest cities in Spain - many like it much more than a farily thoroughly modern Madrid.

LSky

The train by all means.

If you are to get stuck in the snow, airports aren't great places to be stuck. A city or town would offer more comforts.

Plus, trains offer great scenery. (speaking from the POV of a Californian who considers snowy landscapes a real treat.)