gayathri

I am trying to finalize our plans for Italy end of this month. I have heard a lot of good things about Eurostar, and I have planned to travel between Rome, Florence and Venice by ES. However, I cannot find any ES trains for travel from Venice SL to Milan. There are 2 types of trains which seem to take the same amount of time. IC and CIS. Does anybody know the difference between these two? Any preferences? <BR> <BR>Also, the 1 day vaporetto pass in Venice, is it valid for 24 hours or 1day-night? i.e say you buy it at 4PM, is it valid till 3:59 next day, or it is only valid until midnight? <BR>Thanks!

GAC

CIS are French trains, and usually require reservations. IC are Italian trains, and reservations are not required, but are highly advisable, especially in second class (these trains are usually quite full between Milan and Venice).

Rhonda

The vaporetto pass is valid for 24 hours. Very handy if you buy it late in the day, as we did. Could use it again next day. Admittedly no-one ever checked our tickets.

Rex

I can confirm that there are no eurostar trains running from Venice to Milan. I took one of the two you cited in 2000 (the other direction), and couldn't tell you which one it was. The air conditioning was less than perfect in first class if memory serves me correctly (but not a very big deal) - - but generally it was fine - - no dining car, but then it wasn't all that long a ride - - under three hours, right? <BR> <BR>Best wishes, <BR> <BR>Rex <BR>

Bebe

Last month we took ES from Milan to Rome and Florence to Venice. We also found there was no ES for our last leg between Venice and Milan. We took the IC train and it was not much different than ES. The cars were a bit older but just as comfortable. In fact the seats reclined more than ES. It was also cheaper than ES (less than $25 ea in first class). Overall ES is a bit nicer but don't hesitate to take the IC train.

Ben Haines

The reference library of city hnear you may have 6the Thomas cook European Timetabple. Table 600 shows a Eurostar train with restaurant car from Venice Mestre (not Santa Lucia) at 0800 to Milan Central at 1055. Unless you want breakfast on board, there's little point in paying extra and changing at Mestre, since an InterCity train, without catering, leaves Venice Santa Lucia at 0743 and reaches Milan at 1050. <BR> <BR>The only CIS is the restaurant car train from Venice Santa Lucia at 1700 to Milan Central at 1955, and on to Geneva at 2355. Page 290 says that CIS or "Cisalpino" is a Pendolino train for services to and from Switzerland. And pendolino means pendulous -- the train is engineered to tilt slighlty on fast curves, giving a better grip of the rail, faster speed on curves, and a more comfortable journey. Your line along the Po valley involves no mountain curves, and the apparatus won't come into use until the train reaches the Alps. I think these trains were first developed in Sweden. They do not reach France, which sends non-tilt TGVs (high speed trains) over the Alps. <BR> <BR>Your only other through restaurant car train is the Canaletto from Venice Santa Lucia at 1300 to Milan Central at 1555 (an on to Zurich). If you like lunching on trains that might be your choice. <BR> <BR>Otherwise, InterCity trains without catering leave Santa Lucia at 1000 and hourly and take two hours to Milan. InterRegional trains at eleven minutes past some hours are less comfortable, and take 2 1/2 hours. <BR> <BR>Please write if I can help further. <BR> <BR>Ben Haines, London <BR> <BR>

Ben Haines

Sorry for an error. InterCity trains takes three hours anbd InterRegional trains 3 1/2 hours <BR> <BR>Ben haines

gayathri

<BR>Thanks a lot for the responses! Yes, it is only a 2.5 hour ride from Venice SL to Milan, so not have a dining car might not be such a bad thing. And Ben, you sure seem to know a lot about trains! I am surprised that a French train and an Italian train would have the same fares, are these regulated by the Italian govt.? <BR> <BR>If the CIS and IC are identical, I think I will just choose a train by its timing. We need to get to our hotel close to Malpensa airport by a reasonable time. I am setting aside 1.5 hours from Milan Central to the hotel. I hope that's ok. <BR> <BR>Rhonda, thanks for the vaporetto pass information. That's exactly what I was hoping to hear. We will be arriving at Venice around 4PM, it would be nice to use the ticket till the next day at 4PM. <BR>Thanks.

Ben Haines

Yes: domestic fares are set by each rail system, and others accept it and sell at that fare. It's agencies in north America and Australia who take huge mark-ups. <BR> <BR>I think 3 or 3 1/2 hours, not 2 or 2 1/2. <BR> <BR>I think, too, that CIS are identical in length of journey, but perhaps a touch more comfortable than IC, being more recently built. <BR> <BR>Ben Haines <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR>

claire

We took the IC train from Milan to Verona, and then picked it up again from Verona to Venice. We went first class as it was August and we wanted air conditioning. The A/C was rather weak, but it was better than none. I liked the IC (first class) as well as some of the Eurostar trains we took in Italy. The IC we took had the old compartment cars and each compartment sat 6 people. (In our case, also a dog one man carried in a cat carrier borrowed from his neighbor! The well behaved dog spent most of his time at our feet.) In busy seasons, standees will line the corridor. Anyway, don't fear the IC trains from Milan to Venice - but first class is worth the price...overall less expensive than the ES anyway.

nancy

thanks Ben for the info! <BR>My second trip to Italy (this may) might be changing form as I type. <BR>and this was just one of the very important things I was looking for! <BR>

Barb

I took the train from Milan to Venice last month. We had an Italian flexi-pass, but had to buy a supplement and we also made a reservation, glad we did because it was croweded. It was a comfortable train (compartment). Make sure if you paid for first class, you are in first class. We took the train all over Italy and I think most of the time we were probably in second class, just because we didn't know. If you have a first class pass and you are sitting in second class, no one ever tells you, but if you have a second class pass and you are sitting in first, boy do you hear about it. Towards the end of our trip we finally figured out that first class cars are usually the first few cars and the last few cars and are usually non-smoking. It would be nice if they were marked.

Steve

1.5 hours is about the right amount of time to allow from Milan Centrale to your hotel at Malpensa. Just grab the Malpensa Express or Malpensa Shuttle in front of the train station. They leave every 20 minutes and take 50 to 60 minutes to reach the airport. I recommend the Express - it's costs about $1 more than the shuttle but we found their buses to be newer,nicer and much more comfortable.

gayathri

Steve, thanks, I will make sure to take the Malpensa express. Will both the shuttle and express be available outside the station, or do they have specific times. Do you know where I can find times for the malpensa express?<BR><BR>Is there any advantage in buying an Italian flexi-pass or a chilometric ticket? I was considering that, but many fodorites have written that it is easier to buy point to point once we get there.

Barb

You have to compare the cost of point to point tickets as opposed to the flexi-pass. Ours was 9 days in one month, first class, for $350.00. Rick Steves Italy 2001 shows what the point to point tickets will cost (it also shows how long it takes). If you are only going on a couple of trains, it's not worth it. The big difference with the pass is, unless you have to buy a supplement, you just show up and get on. It's very convenient. The