My wife really wants to take the train from Paris to the Lakes (Varenna) instead of flying. I always prefer the train as I find it less hassle, but 9:30hrs is a bit long. The shortest trip I can find on www.bahn.de is 7:45am departure with a 5:30pm arrival in Varenna with 1 change (in Milan).

My wife has no experience with train travel and thinks this will be an experience. I am not quite sold...I do love the train though.

When flying we calculate in the time it takes to a) get to the airport, b) how early you have to be at the airport for security etc. c) landing...waiting for bags d) getting from airport to train station....

We always assume the first day is a loss anyway and that our stay will be 4 nights, but only 3 days - so this wouldn't really cut into our sight seeing as we have it planned.

We would appreciate any feedback on this issue.

Thanks

Naxos

You could consider the overnight train from Paris to Milan. Some people like to travel overnight because it saves a day for sightseeing. Others can't sleep on a train and find it miserable.

On the other hand I should also mention I've found a reasonable looking flight from CDG to Milan M. from 8:35am-10:05.

If only the train was just a bit shorter I would be right on board with DW.

Naxos

Hi Musicteacher - sorry we posted at the same time. I suggested this....my wife doesn't want to do this as she wants to see the scenery. I think its not a bad idea...provided we don't have to change trains in the middle of the night.

THanks,

Naxos

Dear Naxos,

If your wife has no exp. with train travel this seems a very long first trip. It may not be quite "the experience" she may be looking for? I really like taking trains too, although I've never taken this particular one, but 9.30 is a full day.

I live in Zurich where there are trains to so many great destinations. In our experience, flying can often be cheaper and take (including security and travel to the airport) half the time. My husband thinks I'm crazy to want to take the train anywhere more than an hour or two, as he sees it as a time waster, but then I don't like to fly.

Hopefully someone here on Fodor's can help you out with how scenic this train ride actually is - some are and some really aren't at all. Also, it's no problem to spend 9 hours on the train if you have lots and lots of time on your hands and like to nap, read, knit or chat and you get lucky and have a roomy 4 seats for the two of you. But if you get bored and antsy, have to share with noisy or unpleasant neighbors, and only have a short holiday it would be a waste of valuable time and maybe not that much fun I think.

I always romanticize the train ride but honestly, the last 2 trips I ran into difficult train mates. One older woman (elderly in a very bright red dress and her feet up on the other seat - we still joke about her) would not move her bags and things so that my husband and I were hunched into a small spot next to her. She and my husband got into a little tiff about it, and it made for a very long ride - esp for me since I was the one sitting right next to her and her very big bag. Next time, I was with my children coming from St. Moritz and a slightly inebriated man insisted on opening the window (it was January) so the rest of us in the car were freezing. We asked him nicely and he refused. "I'm a paying customer and I'm hot and I want the window open for some fresh air..." Then he proceeded to insult the older women in the car by saying, "I don't care how old you are you didn't ask me nicely enough, so tough!" It was a full train so we were stuck. Well, afterward these things make for good stories - just not pleasant train rides!

My daughter just did an overnight to Florence and said it was pretty tight in the sleepers - they were 2nd class though. On the way home they took the higher speed train and she said a lot of people were nauseous - I've heard this before - so maybe take along some dramomine if you do one of the high speeds as they do roll back and forth a lot on the curves.

Also, lots of Fodorites find 2nd class sufficient, but for the overnight I think maybe it would be worth having 1st class just to be sure it's clean and you have some space.

g.

Thank you for sharing your experience gruezi - what is annoying in the moment often does make for good story telling later lol! I explained that the trains are not the "oriental express" and showed some pictures etc. I love the trains in Europe, but feel its too long a journey. I think we are both coming around to the nice little EasyJet flight.

Thanks,

Naxos