I have posted recently with questions train vs auto hire but can not find them this morning under my screen name- seemed to have vanished.
Anyway, our journey will begin in Stuttgart, then to Strasbourg-Nurnberg-Munich. I know that within the Bayern system our family can ride each day for 27E.

Looking at fare prices and times on the bayern train website that was recommended here for traveling from Stuttgart to Strasbourg to Nurnberg the prices were so high we figured we would have to rent a car.

This morning I learned about the Baden-Wurttemberg ticket which is the same as the Bavarian family ticket 27E for all day.

Originally, checking fares on the Bayern website it was going to cost $150 to get from Stuttgart to Strasbourg in a reasonable amount of time, about 2 hours. The cheaper trains were 3-4 hours! Checking fares on the Baden-Wurttemberg website fares are only a few euros to get most place in minutes, not hours. So now I am very confused. I still can not get a price that I feel is accurate to train from Stuttgart to Strasbourg.

It doesn't make any sense that one can travel from Stuttgart to Karlsruhe for a few euros but it would cost 102E (one way) for a family to get to Strasbourg. Just about everyone recommended using the Bayern website, but I really don't feel like I am getting accurate prices which makes it difficult to make a decision on auto hire arrangements.

Also, I tried getting a price to Strasbourg from Stuttgart on the Badden-Wurttemberg website but it would not come up. As I said, the prices I got on the Bayern website for fares for our family using trains before we got to Nurnberg were more than renting a car for a week which is why we were seriously considering renting a vehicle. My dh really does not want to drive in Germany in December. If you have better, more accurate info than me please let me know.

Another Worry- I have read here on past posts that the trains shut down over the Holidays! Is this really true? How many days? If this is accurate we really do need to rent a car. We would be in Munich over Christmas stuck at the Hotel. Appreciate any help here. Sorry if I sound frustrated but I am.
Thanks,
Tiller

Did you try using railsaver.com? It will figure a lot of this out for you.

The trains in Germany do not shut down over the holiday period. German trains run every day, including Christmas Day. The only major European country where the railway system closes at Christmas is the UK, where there are normally no trains on 25 and 26 December.
Strandard train fares in both Germany and France are based on distance. German fares should be on www.bahn.de.

no German trains do not shut down even on Christmas Day

but the ongoing threat of and incidents of strikes now affecting only regional trains may damper your regional pass plans. See related posts recently about DB Strike.

The website you have recommended above, the Die Bahn, does not seem accurate. For instance, a single ticket Stuttgart to Karlsruhe on Die Bahn comes up 19E; 45-50minutes. On the website www.vvs.de a single ticket Stuttgart to Karlsruhe is 3E; 30minute time. This is why I don't feel like I can make a good decision regarding renting a vehicle. These prices on these two websites are very different considering we are a family of four. I really would like a accurate ticket price from Stuttgart to Strasbourg and then Strasbourg to Nurnberg. Another thing, if you are riding as a family within Baden-Wurttemberg on the 27E ticket and cross into Bavaria, will the family ticket be honored to complete the trip since Bavaria also offers the 27E family ticket?

Thanks
Tiller

>The website you have recommended above, the Die Bahn, does not seem accurate.

I´m sorry, but it is. The only thing it does NOT show is if a group ticket (like BaWue-Ticket, Bayern Ticket, Weekend Ticket) is cheaper than a normal single ticket - only the single ticket price.

>For instance, a single ticket Stuttgart to Karlsruhe on Die Bahn comes up 19E; 45-50minutes.

This is correct.

>On the website www.vvs.de a single ticket Stuttgart to Karlsruhe is 3E; 30minute time.

This is incorrect. However, by buying a BaWue-Ticket the entire trip will cost 27 Euro for up to 5 people together.
Btw I don´t understand where you get these numbers - the VVS site does not give me these relations. VVS is the pricing system of the Stuttgart region, it doesn´t extend to Karlsruhe.

>This is why I don't feel like I can make a good decision regarding renting a vehicle. These prices on these two websites are very different considering we are a family of four. I really would like a accurate ticket price from Stuttgart to Strasbourg

27 Euro for up to 5 people if you sue local trains. The ticket is valid for one day. Plus a ticket from the german border (Kehl) to Strasbourg - 1-2 Euro p.P.

and then Strasbourg to Nurnberg.

On a weekday: Cheapest will be a BaWue Ticket plus a Bayern Ticket. On a weeked day you can buy the weekend ticket for 33 Euro - valid like the other two, only for entire Germany. The additional fare from Starsbourg to Kehl (7-8 min train ride) still applies.

>Another thing, if you are riding as a family within Baden-Wurttemberg on the 27E ticket and cross into Bavaria, will the family ticket be honored to complete the trip since Bavaria also offers the 27E family ticket?

It is not a family ticket and it is not "honored". Any 5 people can use this ticket, and it is only valid within Baden-Württemberg. Outside of Baden-Württemberg it is logically not valid.

I've looked at the VVS website. If you enter the journey of Stuttgart to Karlsruhe, it gives a journey via S-Bahn and bus to Pflugfelden Karlsruher allee (or Karlsruhe Road in the suburb of Pflugfelden) - that is why it costs only 3 euros.
VVS is the local transport authority for Stuttgart so the website does not recognise the city of Karlsruhe which is outside their area. For inter-city journeys like Stuttgart to Karlsruhe, you need to look at the Deutsche Bahn website.

Sorry that you are going through all this confusion.

Maybe some basics for starters:

Both, the Bavaria (Bayern) Ticket and the Baden-Württemberg Ticket cover local and regional trains operated by Deutsche Bahn only in that State you got them for, respectively.

Fast trains like Intercity, ICE, TGV are never covered by these tickets.

Often but not always, trains, buses, mass transit etc. operated by others than Deutsche Bahn are included also.

The problem with the first part of your intinerary is:

a) you travel (even though just for a few kilometers) into France = not covered by Baden-Württemberg Ticket, and
b) the railroad company for that last bit from Appenweier (Germany) to Strasbourg (France), the Ortenau S-Bahn, does not honor the Baden-Wurttemberg Ticket on its network, not even on the German side.

So, what you can do is:

1) Get a Baden-Württemberg Ticket at Stuttgart station, and travel with regional trains to Appenweier (1 change required in Karlsruhe)
2) In Appenweier, you will have a layover of 20 minutes. More than enough to get a return ticket for Strasbourg for appr. 10E pP.
3) Take train to Strasbourg.

Total travel time with regional trains only is 2:35hrs. Costs for 2: 47E.

Thank-you all for clearing up some of my confusion. Maybe purchasing and figuring all this out in reality will be simpler than is sounds right now. If we do ride the trains we will have to do the group tickets and add the additional tickets to get to our destinations. I really am beginning to think that driving may be less trouble, what do you think? Even though it won't be any fun for my husband. Do you know if the train from Stuttgart to Strasbourg follows the major highways and therefore time-wise be faster? I was concerned that some trains listed on Die Bahn were 3-4 hours to Strasbourg. I think by car it takes about 1 1/2 hours and the route is north to Karlsruhe and then south to Strasbourg, that the route I got on Michelin, sound right? Also is there a website for local trains in France to travel to Colmar and other nearby towns? Thank you everyone again!
Tiller

Train schedules for most of western Europe are on www.bahn.de. It gives times for journeys in France but not fares.

The routing from Stuttgart to Strasbourg is more or the less the same for motorways and railroads (as you described).

The 1 1/2hrs quote for road travel are accurate, yet under "perfect" conditions (no traffic jams, good road conditions).

It is hard to give any final smart advice whether to rent a car or take the trains.

Travelling by train with the Baden-W. and Bavaria tickets is inexpensive, yet time consuming (7hrs from Strasbourg to Nuremberg!) and not too convenient (more connecting required, carrying luggage downstairs, upstairs when changing trains/platforms).
That's the trade off for travelling at a fraction of the usual costs for a train ticket.

Renting a car gives you more freedom. Going from Stuttgart to Strasbourg you could go thru the Black Forest, take sidetrips and so on. But you will need to navigate in the historic city centers of Strasbourg or other cities,

In Munich you don't really need a car.

From my very own perspective as a 40yo German, familiar with all those tickets, the railway system, and the highway system: I would never ever think about doing your itinerary by rail, but rent a car.

Cowboy: Thank you for your help, honesty and patience, you are very kind! We did travel through Italy by train, so we traveled light with one bag each, But, this was only from points A to B within the country between major cities, & travel time was very comparable to driving times. Strasbourg to Nurnberg 7 hours, I think we can do better by car. Thanks again,
Tiller

Or take the faster trains and look at the German Railpass - at about $180 p.p. for 4 days of unlimited travel in a one-month period - a flexipass
Twin pass with two names on it is the cheapest - kids if under 12 pay 50% of the adult price. Can use on any train anytime - walkup fine. Compared with full fares for your journey may be a bargain and cheaper than the costs involved with cars, including several dollar a gallon gas. Details www.raileurope.com or, as i suggest always for any raileurope product www.budgeteuropetravel.com for their great customer service (actually can talk to someone expert on toll-free phone; their free European Planning & Rail Guide has a god chapter on Germany trains). www.euraide.com is also a German train specialist. Cars have their benefits but not over trains if just to save money IMO

Don't get me wrong: Personally, I do like to travel by train. And I did not mean to totally discourage you from taking the trains.

Yet there are certain disadvantages one should keep in mind in advance.
Waiting on platforms in mid-December is not too much fun.
The regional trains are also the work horses for commuter traffic, so there is a chance that some trains will be packed during peak hours.

While your whole itinerary is certainly "doable", I would just doubt that it will be as relaxing as train travel often sounds in comparison to car travel.

Driving around Germany is not really a big thing. Fuel costs are high, but if you get a compact to midsize car and stick to a moderate speed of 60-70mph on the freeways, it won't kill you.

Your trip from Stuttgart to Munich via Strasbourg and Nürnberg is 620km, and gets a quote of appr 60 Euro for gas, for the whole trip.

Most rental car companies I know do not charge extra for one way rentals within Germany. Most will give you a Diesel car when available (saves another few €€ for fuel). GPS is a possible option also for small or compact cars, and takes the angst out of inner city driving.

PalenQ: Thanks for your information and websites listed. I did check those railpass prices. Our itinerary is 13-14 days so.. it's either taking advantage of group ticket for 27E or car rental. We will probably use the train or travel daytrips 6-8 days of the 13-14. We may keep a vehicle if we rent one, until Munich. But, I have read here that driving to some of the popular towns south of Munich is easier by car than train (less time and hassle) to visit Fussen, Garmisch etc. You have been very helpful, almost always posting with information each time I have had a question, thanks for your time and thoughts!
Tiller

Hi T,

>I have posted recently with questions train vs auto hire but can not find them this morning....<

Click on your name.