Touristy ?
Sep 28th, 2003, 03:51 AM
#2
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I think such people feel they are having a packaged experience, not seeing a natural part of the world. There are several parts to this thought, and I shall illustrate from London. Some places are commercial attractions, designed from the start to bring sightseers. Such are Madame Tussaud?s and the London Dungeon. Some were real enough in their time, but have been packaged into a tourist experience. The crown jewels in London and Edinburgh used to be a set of crowns and so on in display cases. Now you have to climb stairs, form queues (lines), and read a mass of explanatory matter, to tell you the background of the jewels. More, in the Tower you cannot stand still to see them: a moving floor forces you past them. Some sights are just sights, with nothing to see. Big Ben is a large clock, Piccadilly Circus is a traffic junction, and Buckingham Palace is a large and flat grey building. Some things are indeed interesting, and not tarted up by the displayers, but draw such crowds that visitors can feel uncomfortable: the Rosetta stone in the British Museum is an example.
Which leaves plenty to see and do. Well known examples are the museums of south Kensington, a committee meeting in the old rooms of Parliament, most rooms of the National Gallery, the National Portrait gallery, upstairs in the British Museum, the British Library, the Museum of London, and seventeenth century churches in the City. Unknown examples are small one-subject museums: those for Florence Nightingale, the Bank of England, and canals are examples.
Visitors who cut out the touristy items in my opening paragraph have time to dig out places or experiences that will reflect their interest or career in computer science or Moroccan music, or anything. They can do this because over time (for example in school) they have cultivated their garden of interests, as Voltaire says they should in Candide. I am sad at the number of enquirers here who ask what to see in London but cannot think of any hobby, interest, subject of study, career subject, or retirement interest that will let me recommend a place or places for them. They are thus condemned to walk the treadmill of the tourist places.
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Sep 28th, 2003, 04:10 AM
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I draw a distinction similar to Ben's: forget about places that exist solely for tourists, like Madame Tussaid's. Those places aren't "attractive and worthwhile", they're just highly promoted! One major clue is when it's a chain found in many cities, like Tussaud's or Hard Rock Cafe.
But some places that are "touristy" in the sense that they draw lots of tourists are still worthwhile, and I'd count Stratford-upon-Avon and the Tower among them.
As Ben suggests, we skipped places like Buckingham Palace and Big Ben, and had time for more interesting stuff like Soane's and the Old Operating Theatre.
I guess "attractive" and "worthwhile" are two different things, and different for every tourist.
But some places that are "touristy" in the sense that they draw lots of tourists are still worthwhile, and I'd count Stratford-upon-Avon and the Tower among them.
As Ben suggests, we skipped places like Buckingham Palace and Big Ben, and had time for more interesting stuff like Soane's and the Old Operating Theatre.
I guess "attractive" and "worthwhile" are two different things, and different for every tourist.
Sep 28th, 2003, 05:09 AM
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Some things considered "touristy" are still the most magnificant things going and I would never ever consider "skipping" them. Anonymous - you "skipped" Big Ben!?! (yes it is the bell, but everyone knows what we mean when we say Big Ben) - I could stand and look at it (the whole thing, tower, clock face, etc) for hours. It is just beautiful, as are the Eiffel Tower and the Trevi Fountain and lots of other "touristy" places. People who skip these things just cause they are well known and therefore touristy, are crazy. Overall I do agree with Ben (and the rest of what anonymous said) about places like Madame Tussaud's versus the Florence Nightingale and Old Operating Museums.
Sep 28th, 2003, 05:37 AM
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The other thing is crowds. Oh, and tacky.
I've only been to Rome in February. I thought it wonderful, but I'd have hated it in August.
And on our recent trip to France a bunch of my buddies went to Lourdes. They said the sanctuary was beautiful and peaceful, but the town is awful with plastic light up Madonnas all over the place. So, how do you see the sanctuary without the town; and do you not do either rather than have to suffer one.
Another example is Loch Ness. If any of you have ever driven from Inverness to Invermoriston in August, you will know that it is purgatory. And the shops are full of platsic and tartan "monsters". And, believe me, oretty tho' it is, Loch ness is not by any stretch of the imagination the top landscape spot in Scotland. And som that might be, have no people at all.
As to superior, well you do what you want and I'll do what I want. I couldn't visit San Francisco without seeing the Golden Gate Bridge or going on a tram, and I KNOW those are touristy things to do. But it would take drugs to get me to Disneyworld.
I've only been to Rome in February. I thought it wonderful, but I'd have hated it in August.
And on our recent trip to France a bunch of my buddies went to Lourdes. They said the sanctuary was beautiful and peaceful, but the town is awful with plastic light up Madonnas all over the place. So, how do you see the sanctuary without the town; and do you not do either rather than have to suffer one.
Another example is Loch Ness. If any of you have ever driven from Inverness to Invermoriston in August, you will know that it is purgatory. And the shops are full of platsic and tartan "monsters". And, believe me, oretty tho' it is, Loch ness is not by any stretch of the imagination the top landscape spot in Scotland. And som that might be, have no people at all.
As to superior, well you do what you want and I'll do what I want. I couldn't visit San Francisco without seeing the Golden Gate Bridge or going on a tram, and I KNOW those are touristy things to do. But it would take drugs to get me to Disneyworld.
Sep 28th, 2003, 05:47 AM
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OK, maybe Big Ben wasn't the best example, because I don't believe in avoiding a place just *because* it's "touristy" (I thought my example of Stratford would clarify that!). Skipping Ben was more of a matter of setting priorities for our very limited time in London. I certainly wouldn't skip the Eiffel Tower for anything, it was lovely.
In fact, super-tacky places like Lourdes town have their own charm, IMHO.
Sheila, I'm with you re: Disney. I even have a credential -- I passed up a free trip when my dad took the whole family to celebrate his retirement.
In fact, super-tacky places like Lourdes town have their own charm, IMHO.
Sheila, I'm with you re: Disney. I even have a credential -- I passed up a free trip when my dad took the whole family to celebrate his retirement.
Sep 28th, 2003, 06:06 AM
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As Yogi Berra said, "nobody goes there anymore--it's too crowded."
"Touristy" places usually have a good reason for attracting many visitors. The best thing to do, IMHO, is to visit those attractions, but go when they are less crowded. We love Brugge, but it's a total zoo on week-ends from late spring through fall. So we go week-days off season.
"Touristy" places usually have a good reason for attracting many visitors. The best thing to do, IMHO, is to visit those attractions, but go when they are less crowded. We love Brugge, but it's a total zoo on week-ends from late spring through fall. So we go week-days off season.
Sep 28th, 2003, 06:24 AM
#10
When did the world get divided between the places which appeal to the mullet heads and those that draw the knowledge seekers?
The Tower of London may be too touristy for some but it sparked a passion for English history in my daughter.
My current hometown of Williamsburg, VA is the ultimate in prepackaged history and if you're only in it for the tri-cornered hat, so be it. But you'll also find a treasure of information if you have an interest in 18th century textiles, furniture, gardening, music, etc.
Arlington Cemetery is one of the most heavily visited tourist sites in DC but you'd be hard pressed to call it tacky. Tho I guess I'm not without judgments. Anyone who fails to be moved by the changing of the guards ceremony at the Tomb of the Unknowns is, well, a mullet head.
The Tower of London may be too touristy for some but it sparked a passion for English history in my daughter.
My current hometown of Williamsburg, VA is the ultimate in prepackaged history and if you're only in it for the tri-cornered hat, so be it. But you'll also find a treasure of information if you have an interest in 18th century textiles, furniture, gardening, music, etc.
Arlington Cemetery is one of the most heavily visited tourist sites in DC but you'd be hard pressed to call it tacky. Tho I guess I'm not without judgments. Anyone who fails to be moved by the changing of the guards ceremony at the Tomb of the Unknowns is, well, a mullet head.
Sep 28th, 2003, 06:40 AM
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Me personally, I just don't enjoy elbow to elbow crowds. "Excuse me please, can you step just to your left? I'd like to get a picture of the sunset. Thanks! Oh, and you too? And you?" as I wave hands left and right. It depends on my mood and my current willingness to jockey for position vs the drawing power of the tourist site beyond. If I have to, I'll suffer the lines and crowds in Venice, but I'd rather travel off season and adjust that way.
I'm also not wholeheartedly against that "packaged experience" but when I do go, honestly it's for pure fun of goofing around. Elvis's Graceland here in the town I live comes to mind. This kind of thing can be fun, ocassionally, even though you know someone has their figurative hand in your pocket. Maybe it's because you know, and can relax about it. It rarely feels mind expanding or a personl growth experience though. Not everything has to be, for me. But I wouldn't stand in line for it, generally.
Truly, despite anyone else's desire to determine my motivations for feeling that way, the truth is I don't feel superior to visitors of Disney, just because I would rather see mountains, lakes, old buildings and art. I did pay admission to the Dali exhibit when in London, and if anyone was a showman....
Then, there are those sights, like the Tower of Big Ben. Those non-interactive ones. I think of it as looking at the mountains. You can't climb everyone one of them (despite the song), but they fact that they're there in your view means <i> You've made it!.. I'VE made it!! </i> I'm really in London... there's Big Ben!!
Wouldn't miss that feeling for the world, but then I'm embarrassingly easy to impress. Let a building do nothing but stand there for a few centuries, and there I am, snapping a picture.
I'm also not wholeheartedly against that "packaged experience" but when I do go, honestly it's for pure fun of goofing around. Elvis's Graceland here in the town I live comes to mind. This kind of thing can be fun, ocassionally, even though you know someone has their figurative hand in your pocket. Maybe it's because you know, and can relax about it. It rarely feels mind expanding or a personl growth experience though. Not everything has to be, for me. But I wouldn't stand in line for it, generally.
Truly, despite anyone else's desire to determine my motivations for feeling that way, the truth is I don't feel superior to visitors of Disney, just because I would rather see mountains, lakes, old buildings and art. I did pay admission to the Dali exhibit when in London, and if anyone was a showman....
Then, there are those sights, like the Tower of Big Ben. Those non-interactive ones. I think of it as looking at the mountains. You can't climb everyone one of them (despite the song), but they fact that they're there in your view means <i> You've made it!.. I'VE made it!! </i> I'm really in London... there's Big Ben!!
Wouldn't miss that feeling for the world, but then I'm embarrassingly easy to impress. Let a building do nothing but stand there for a few centuries, and there I am, snapping a picture.
Sep 28th, 2003, 07:42 AM
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I agree that how you enjoy places has much to do with your mood. Hey, I even enjoyed Madame Tussaud's, but it isn't something I'd want to do every day.
And I really feel sorry for people who spend their travel days avoiding the "touristy". Most touristy places are that way for a reason -- they are really worth visiting.
But I'll once again say that many people hate Capri or San Gimignano
because of too many tourists. But then I invariably find they only went as day trippers, missing the places in their best light, when there are fewer other tourists.
And I really feel sorry for people who spend their travel days avoiding the "touristy". Most touristy places are that way for a reason -- they are really worth visiting.
But I'll once again say that many people hate Capri or San Gimignano
because of too many tourists. But then I invariably find they only went as day trippers, missing the places in their best light, when there are fewer other tourists.
Sep 28th, 2003, 09:12 AM
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We try to stay in balance when we travel and hate crowds! I like to find things that appeal to everybody in our family. Everything doesn't have to be educational. It doesn't have to be the old, historic building/ church tour. We did the London Dungeon because a) it was on our London Pass and b) it was a different, more teen-friendly thing where they still absorbed a lot of history. Personally, I wouldn't go for myself but it was a good break for the kids. If you go to see touristy things doesn't mean you have to spend a lot of time there.
Sep 28th, 2003, 11:05 AM
#15
I think I agree with the idea that touristy places get that way by attracting tourists. Going yourself is no sin against sophisticated travel, but also presents ironic opportunities. I really like the two odd pictures I took in the Louvre, one of the back of Venus de Milo against a solid background of tourists with cameras and the other of a really large gallery covered with pictures but empty of visitors except for a crowd virtually obscuring Mona Lisa. Of course, since I was also a tourist, I did eventually work myself into the positions where I could view them in the conventional way, so I guess it's a wash.
As to Disneyland, I'm old enough to have been a kid when Disneyland and the Mickey Mouse Club were invented, and the idea of actually visiting from the east coast was an impossible dream. The passage of time eventually brought the ability to afford an actual trip to California after med school, and you can be sure I had a great time at Disneyland. Especially the Merry-Go-Round.
As to Disneyland, I'm old enough to have been a kid when Disneyland and the Mickey Mouse Club were invented, and the idea of actually visiting from the east coast was an impossible dream. The passage of time eventually brought the ability to afford an actual trip to California after med school, and you can be sure I had a great time at Disneyland. Especially the Merry-Go-Round.
Sep 28th, 2003, 12:21 PM
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First, I'm curious, everyone says, "I hate crowds", are there people out there who "love" crowds? I'm not crazy about crowds either, but sometimes they come along with the place I want to see and at the time of the year that I was able to go.
As far as Disneyland, it totally puzzles me as to how people can compare it with going to Tuscany, for example. Going to Disneyland is a totally different experience, it isn't about seeing another country or learning about history, it's totally fantasy. I also find most of the time that people who say they would never want to go to Disneyland, have never been, therefore, they think of it as a regular amusement park, which trust me Disneyland is not your run of the mill amusement park.
I love traveling and love to go all over the world and visit museum, historical places and areas to just sit back and relax but I also really like Disneyland, a place where the outside world doesn't exist for the time that you are in the Park.
I think that the people who can't stand "touristy" people, are the same ones who say they don't watch television, they only watch "PBS", they think that others will think they are smarter and more sophisticated.
As far as Disneyland, it totally puzzles me as to how people can compare it with going to Tuscany, for example. Going to Disneyland is a totally different experience, it isn't about seeing another country or learning about history, it's totally fantasy. I also find most of the time that people who say they would never want to go to Disneyland, have never been, therefore, they think of it as a regular amusement park, which trust me Disneyland is not your run of the mill amusement park.
I love traveling and love to go all over the world and visit museum, historical places and areas to just sit back and relax but I also really like Disneyland, a place where the outside world doesn't exist for the time that you are in the Park.
I think that the people who can't stand "touristy" people, are the same ones who say they don't watch television, they only watch "PBS", they think that others will think they are smarter and more sophisticated.
Sep 28th, 2003, 12:52 PM
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In a remarkable and heartfelt e-mail an American lady has asked me to think again. She says that some people, or many people, are given no chance as children to develop their own tastes and interests, and that is only when they travel abroad that they find new interests that then last their life long. If I find myself listing the standard must-sees she asks me to bear in mind that peoples first visit to London or Paris may be the moment when they start a private and deep enjoyment of, for example, architecture or painting.
This seems to me a reasonable line of thought, and I shall as of now cease to regret it when people on a first trip cannot suggest an interest that they want to follow up.
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Sep 28th, 2003, 01:33 PM
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If someone goes to London and does not see Big Ben, that must also mean he missed out on Westminster Abbey, the Palace of Westminster, the Thames boats leaving from Westminster Pier, etc. I highly recommend all of these, by the way, no matter how touristy. Westminster Abbey and the Palace of Westminster are so deeply central to what Britain is. The Thames boats are excellent if you get a good commentator, and you can get off and on at various points as needed.
Ben Haines, good for you for reconsidering your viewpoint.
Ben Haines, good for you for reconsidering your viewpoint.
Sep 28th, 2003, 03:22 PM
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"If someone goes to London and does not see Big Ben, that must also mean he missed out on Westminster Abbey, the Palace of Westminster, the Thames boats leaving from Westminster Pier, etc."
Well, no. Good heavens, will I ever live down my comment about skipping Big Ben?? As a matter of fact, we DID visit Westminster Abbey, and then we took a Catamaran Cruiser down to Greenwich and thoroughly enjoyed the corny, silly, raunchy commentary. We chose our activities based on what we were interested in, not whether (or not) lots of other tourists agreed with our preferences.
Well, no. Good heavens, will I ever live down my comment about skipping Big Ben?? As a matter of fact, we DID visit Westminster Abbey, and then we took a Catamaran Cruiser down to Greenwich and thoroughly enjoyed the corny, silly, raunchy commentary. We chose our activities based on what we were interested in, not whether (or not) lots of other tourists agreed with our preferences.
