<BR>I agree with ED, and will take this one step further, you all need to get out and travel to Asia/Africa. You will realize how strange and funny you sound.

I think we need to change Frank's original wording from "American Standards" to simply "clean" and and then this tread makes sense..

F. Y. I. Go into goeurope.about.com/travel/goeurope/libary/venice/aa980615.htm, alas Venice Public toilets. Still continue to run <BR>into the hole in the floor with footprints. Worse are the ones which <BR>are about 12 inches or less off the floor. Richard of La Grange Park, Il...

Ed, congratulations as one of the responses you have lumped together for your over the top criticism you have succeeded in offending me. <BR> <BR>1. I am not American <BR>2. I said nothing about taking paper from the US to Italy! (or for that matter bottled water or any of the other nonsenses you talked about - who on earth ever suggested any of this??) <BR> <BR>As a female having paper in a toilet is actually a desirable thing. Sure a lot of toilets in Italy are fine, but not all. What's the harm in having some tissues in your pocket for god sake? Now if we were talking about India I would have emphasised it more. <BR> <BR>And yes some toilets outside tourist sites do require you to pay.

Caitlin please read Eds comments and I think you will find that he has not said anything against carrying some paper in your handbag I always do that. <BR>Eds views IMHO are not criticism but sensible comments following a particularly patronising question which started this whole thread. And Toms comment on "John Wayne" toilet paper was really amusing but untrue at least where I have been in Europe. <BR>Frank I just hope the European "backwater" meets your "US standards" remember many Europeans visit this site and may find such comments offensive, others will just think them a sad reflection on the American view of the outside world. <BR>Thank you then Ed for your comments.

Let's review: <BR> <BR>Stuff your suitcase with rolls of toilet paper to Europe so that you'll have your preferred cushy brand: No. <BR> <BR>Stuff a wad of toilet paper in your purse in case of an unexpected shortage: Yes. <BR> <BR>Carry 24 bottles of water in your suitcase so that you'll always have your preferred brand: No. <BR> <BR>Buy a bottle of water in Europe and carry it around as you tour: Yes. <BR> <BR>So Ed is right. Again. <BR> <BR>By the way, I thought men did their business standing up and needed toilet paper only periodically. Are you fellas going soft on me?

Yes, Ed is right, but there's nicer ways of going about it. <BR> <BR>Frank expressed a concern which, through it's wording, showing a basic ignorance of European ways. I use the term ignorance as "unknowing", not in the newer definition of the word. <BR> <BR>I find when dealing with people who are ignorant of a place or culture it is best to explain to them, nicely, what they are to do and why they are to do it. Calmly, gently. Once people understand, they are able to be more sensitive to a culture or a place, and they in turn will teach others. Ed's comments were like a hammer on a gnat. Unnecessarily heavy handed, and as one knows you catch more flies with sugar than vinegar.

Rose, why was it necessary to restate what I'd already said in this message re cafes? Ed, et al., Why turn carrying paper into a silly idea when people are merely being practical and not taking papare from HOME? Most people i know take the tissues from their hotel or buy them locally, except for a few packets taken from home for the plane flight. And who ever suggested taking water from the USA? (I suggest dehydrated water - just add sink water and it's fine.) Why has this scatological discussion attracted more participation than Qs re travel to interesting but remote places, or specialized cultural topics? What does it say about our culture? <BR> There are still some "Turkish" toilets in Italy -- even in one of the major museums in Florence (but at least it was clean). (I don't happen to remember which museum.) In my last two trips to Italy (l997, 2000), I do not remember seeing any pay toilets. They were either free or nonexistent, but they seemed to be more plentiful than in the USA. Compared to 35 years ago when there were filthy Turkish toilets and the toilet paper, if any was often just last week's newspaper, the toilets now are fine, certainly no worse than Ameican ones, although the plumbing design is more quirky and often less modern. It is often hard to figure out how to flush. It may be a foot pedal, a string from the ceiling, a button -- just push, press, pull. turn everything in sight until flushing occurs. If you're hiking or strolling in the countryside both women and men may be happier using the "bushes" (obviously not right near houses, gardens, crops, churches, cemeteries)instead of waiting for a public toilet or counting on a cafe or church with a toilet in the next town. So of course you should carry tissues or toilet paper or whatever paper you're comfortable carrying and using, plus zip lock bags to carry it out until you find an appropriate place to dispose of it. And just as in the USA, it is stupid to travel without such paper or to assume that every indoor public toilet will have nice paper, or any paper. Stopping at little shops for a granita, a cafe, a pastry, a cold drink, etc., and then asking to use the toilet is perfectly acceptable, and unlike in the USA, the shopkeepers always seem to cheerfully direct you to thier toilet (i.e., it's not employees-only). <BR> <BR> <BR>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- <BR>

Hey Judy! <BR>Would your cousin be willing to share her map of "pit stops" in Rome? <BR>I for one, could certainly use it! <BR>nancy <BR>

WHOA, EVERYBODY! As usual, this has gotten way out of hand, w/sarcastic responses and interpretations of same. <BR>Haven't we forgotten the original point?Holly is 100% correct in suggesting that one should include a packet or two of Kleenex. It's smart, convenient, and you never know when....

I have found that the restrooms in Europe are in general much cleaner than in the US. My first reaction when I leved in Europe was one on non belief. After having traveled to most of the States, I changed my mind. So many of them are filthy here that I like to carry not only toilet paper, but also seat protectors. True, when I lived abroad (snooty enough), I used to always carry tp with me because 40 years ago it was truly John Wayne TP. That certainly has not been true the last few years that I've traveled. <BR>

Nancy, Well, I could e-mail her, you never know,,,,it may be top secret, however. If she gives it, I will share, how is that? This is important stuff, right? Judy

Frank, if you'd focused the question on the description of the paper and how to find "public conveniences," you wouldn't have come across as offensively as the "up to US standards" phrase did. There's a pasted posting of your question on the US forum, inserting "European standards" for your phrase, to make the point of how chauvinistic this came across. <BR> <BR>For perspective, I added my own problems with those "American" standards: <BR> "There are toilets in the US that are much more disgusting than most in Europe, at least based on what I've seen in ladies' rooms across the country. It seems to me that American women are getting piggier and piggier -- esp. about peeing on the seat, to be blunt. Some of the most revolting places I've been to have been on the service areas on the highways up the East Coast. Unflushed toilets, paper all over the floor, dirty seats, scuzzy sinks with only cold water. It's time to clean up your act, ladies. If you "hover" because the seat might be dirty, consider that you yourself are making the problem worse, esp. if you leave things worse than when you arrived. <BR> <BR> If you found the same thing in Europe, you would have horrible things to say about the Europeans' idea of public hygiene.

Judy, <BR>For me it is!! <BR>I appreciate the offer to share, if your cousin will. <BR>nancy <BR>

If this thread isn't indicative of the caliber of "poster" I don't know what is! Not one response to "Prague?" but 35 (and counting) regarding public toilets. WHEW!!

I enocurage everyone to go back and read the original question and all the posts. Not only did sometimes people not answer the question, they talked on how they were "offended." My parents taught me if I did not agree with a stranger, then I should not say anything and move on. In times where there are issues all around us that should really offend, we should leave simple comments alone and move on. This board with be more healthy if we all practiced a little control. For bathrooms anywhere in the world, if you have to go, you have to go. If you have paper, more power to you, if not, better luck next time. If you have to pay, it is better than suffering. I am just amazed at how people get "offended". I will be in Italy in 3 weeks and will report back my bathroom findings.

Tom: I don't mean to kick a dead horse here, but I do take offense when I make a simple suggestion like packing tissue for a trip, and someone like Ed then accuses me of thinking the world beyond the USA is third-world at best and tells me I'd be better off staying home because of my suggestion. It's okay that his wife puts hotel room toilet paper in her purse, but anyone who slips a few packs of those travel-size kleenex in their bag before leaving home ought to never leave the States? His suggestion that I disguise my identity and pretend I'm Canadian so nobody will think I'm an American, just shows that his pomposity is only exceeded by his ignorance.

Why are some of you European posters that are having a hissy fit about this thread now dragging this same thread over to harrass people at the US travel board on Fodor's? Isn't one arguement at a time over toilets enough for you???? Someone has an anal fixation but who drag it over to the US boards too?

Ok Ok Stevie <BR>You have proved again how well you can read. Can you now concentrate on your grammar and spelling please? <BR>Stevies Teacher

I could not pass by without a response. In 1984 we went to Europe on an independent driving tour and then the worst facilities were in Italy, Germany and France were not too bad as long as you had change. After two trips in 1997 and 1999(including Venice) I have to say that overall, European facilities are preferable. I say this because "generally" they offer more privacy, security and cleanliness. Yes there are the few, as there are all over the planet that are not, or that are out of paper. So you go prepared (tissue in the purse and always carry coin). We are about to go to OZ and NZ so I will be curious to compare. <BR> I believe Venice started charging due to the high level of tourism and the cost of waste treatment. I think this is commendable if it provides cleaner restrooms and cleaner cities. <BR> Regarding water, I too thought it was a little over board, until I spoke with my sister in law who has such a sensitive stomach that she would not enjoy traveling unless she took it. She may not have gotten sick but she would have stressed about it. Besides, she does not do independent travel but tours, otherwize who would want to carry all that weight. <BR>Happy, pleasant, healthy travels everyone. <BR>