To those of you who keep saying that eating out in Europe is comparably priced to eating out in the US.....
Feb 3rd, 2008, 07:39 PM
#21
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We were in Rome and Venice over Xmas and we spent a small fortune on food - including (like Randy) a 6 Euro Coke Light near the Coliseum.
For our family of 4, we probably averaged $300-350 a day for meals - which always included a nice bottle of wine at dinner and a couple of glasses of wine at lunch. However, we did not "look" for cheap places - we looked for places that interested and appealed to all of us. We knew going into the trip that we would be spending money on food. We live overseas and don't get to eat good stuff - so we were taking full advantage of every opportunity. We did occasionally grab some quick fast food (McD's at the Rome train station and Burger King in Venice) - but most times we went to nice/but casual cafes and restaurants. Shoot - our BK meal cost us 28 euros!
A lot of money for food - sure.....but with very few exceptions - we enjoyed every bite and have no regrets. Okay - DH grumbled a bit when he saw the money flying out of the checking account to pay the CC bill.......but then I reminded him of all the wine and seafood pasta dishes he enjoyed - and he quieted down!
Maybe it's because we are so limited in our selections for day-to-day living.....but when we travel, we consider eating part of the adventure. Just as we CHOOSE (I'm sure I'll be blasted for using caps!) to spend more money to stay in a nice hotel in the city center, we CHOOSE to eat at nice places. And we are willing to pay the cost differences for those choices.
Now, when we are back in the US for the summer - we do things differently. In New Orleans, DH and I usually have 1 nice dinner out in the French Quarter - usually one of the upscale, well-known places - and those dinners (with wine) will run us between $100-200. BUT - the rest of the time, we eat at all our favorite "joints" - places the tourists would never have the opportunity to know about.
For our family of 4, we probably averaged $300-350 a day for meals - which always included a nice bottle of wine at dinner and a couple of glasses of wine at lunch. However, we did not "look" for cheap places - we looked for places that interested and appealed to all of us. We knew going into the trip that we would be spending money on food. We live overseas and don't get to eat good stuff - so we were taking full advantage of every opportunity. We did occasionally grab some quick fast food (McD's at the Rome train station and Burger King in Venice) - but most times we went to nice/but casual cafes and restaurants. Shoot - our BK meal cost us 28 euros!
A lot of money for food - sure.....but with very few exceptions - we enjoyed every bite and have no regrets. Okay - DH grumbled a bit when he saw the money flying out of the checking account to pay the CC bill.......but then I reminded him of all the wine and seafood pasta dishes he enjoyed - and he quieted down!
Maybe it's because we are so limited in our selections for day-to-day living.....but when we travel, we consider eating part of the adventure. Just as we CHOOSE (I'm sure I'll be blasted for using caps!) to spend more money to stay in a nice hotel in the city center, we CHOOSE to eat at nice places. And we are willing to pay the cost differences for those choices.
Now, when we are back in the US for the summer - we do things differently. In New Orleans, DH and I usually have 1 nice dinner out in the French Quarter - usually one of the upscale, well-known places - and those dinners (with wine) will run us between $100-200. BUT - the rest of the time, we eat at all our favorite "joints" - places the tourists would never have the opportunity to know about.
Feb 3rd, 2008, 09:55 PM
#22
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This will probably turn again into a 200+ post, but anyway...
My pet peeve about comparing eating out in Europe with the US is, that, since most central European countries have one common currency, it means that you mean as much or as little for a given item in all of the Euro zone. We have one currency now, but the purchasing power is not the same.
No one will probably be so bold to say that it has no effect when one currency gains or loses 30 or 50 percent against another currency.
So, my issue here is the general assumption about <b>Europe</b>. If the OP said something like "beware, you can be charged an arm and a leg for eating out in the most popular tourist spots in Italy - and it get's even more expensive with the weak dollar" - it would be much harder to disagree.
We are not talking about <b>Europe</b> here, but about <b>Italy</b>. Maybe not even <b>Italy</b>, but about <b>Rome</b> and <b>Venice</b>.
Rome and Venice are expensive tourist destinations, even for those of us getting paid in Euros. For most from the Continent, the UK is expensive (another typical generalization since for most tourists the UK means central London), so is Sweden, but also the fab 3 cities in Italy.
Finding a 4* hotel for a good rate is much harder in Amsterdam than in Berlin. Filling up my car is much cheaper in Austria and Luxemburg than in Germany. Alcoholic beverages are half the price in Germany than in Ireland. Eating out in France (in a French restaurant in the countryside) is more expensive for me than doing the same in Bavaria.
What we will see here - probably - is a never-ending list of examples how people were able to eat for little money in rural Andalucía, or in Hungary, or - for example - another cheap eat in Munich: The Hofbräukeller (a historic beer hall), always serving many Bavarian specialties for €5.55, every day.
All of the places mentioned above are in Europe. It would help the discussion if it was more focused.
My pet peeve about comparing eating out in Europe with the US is, that, since most central European countries have one common currency, it means that you mean as much or as little for a given item in all of the Euro zone. We have one currency now, but the purchasing power is not the same.
No one will probably be so bold to say that it has no effect when one currency gains or loses 30 or 50 percent against another currency.
So, my issue here is the general assumption about <b>Europe</b>. If the OP said something like "beware, you can be charged an arm and a leg for eating out in the most popular tourist spots in Italy - and it get's even more expensive with the weak dollar" - it would be much harder to disagree.
We are not talking about <b>Europe</b> here, but about <b>Italy</b>. Maybe not even <b>Italy</b>, but about <b>Rome</b> and <b>Venice</b>.
Rome and Venice are expensive tourist destinations, even for those of us getting paid in Euros. For most from the Continent, the UK is expensive (another typical generalization since for most tourists the UK means central London), so is Sweden, but also the fab 3 cities in Italy.
Finding a 4* hotel for a good rate is much harder in Amsterdam than in Berlin. Filling up my car is much cheaper in Austria and Luxemburg than in Germany. Alcoholic beverages are half the price in Germany than in Ireland. Eating out in France (in a French restaurant in the countryside) is more expensive for me than doing the same in Bavaria.
What we will see here - probably - is a never-ending list of examples how people were able to eat for little money in rural Andalucía, or in Hungary, or - for example - another cheap eat in Munich: The Hofbräukeller (a historic beer hall), always serving many Bavarian specialties for €5.55, every day.
All of the places mentioned above are in Europe. It would help the discussion if it was more focused.
Feb 4th, 2008, 12:49 AM
#24
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Right, so your meal cost about 10 quid for two of you.
Out of that, the restaurant had to pay rent on the building, pay staff (although the customers do most of that through tips) and buy the food.
I just can't see how they do it and quite honestly I'd rather not know about the ingredients.
Out of that, the restaurant had to pay rent on the building, pay staff (although the customers do most of that through tips) and buy the food.
I just can't see how they do it and quite honestly I'd rather not know about the ingredients.
Feb 4th, 2008, 01:26 AM
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RE cafes rather than meals. In Italy and France (not sure about other European cities) the cafes in the high tourist areas ie Via Veneto and Champs Elysee, St Marks Square and so on charge an exceptional price for table service. It is clearly marked on the charts just inside the door. This also applies at similar seaside resorts. [They pay very high charges to the local authority for the privilege of having the cafe there.] However, if you go to the counter and stand up you pay the price set by the regional chamber of commerce for that area in any cafe. Alternatively as I have done since my student days you can walk around the corner to a quieter cafe and pay the usual markup for sitting at the table versus standing at the bar. You have to decide whether you want to have the experience at sitting in one of these cafes and it can be fun or be more price conscious. Food in those expensive places is also pro-rata expensive compared to any other cafes/bistros nearby. This information used to be standard in any reasonable guide book aimed at those from the United Kingdom because the system doesn't operate here.
Feb 4th, 2008, 03:06 AM
#27
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Josser, my son and I were discussing that very subject, and our minds boggled.
He often goes on business trips to the US and recently saw a place where you could eat all you wanted for ten dollars.
As well as all the things you mentioned, they have got to cook the food somehow and they have to heat and light the restaurants. The ingredients also have to be transported.
How much of that ten dollars is food?
You also wonder how much they pay the producers.
He often goes on business trips to the US and recently saw a place where you could eat all you wanted for ten dollars.
As well as all the things you mentioned, they have got to cook the food somehow and they have to heat and light the restaurants. The ingredients also have to be transported.
How much of that ten dollars is food?
You also wonder how much they pay the producers.
Feb 4th, 2008, 03:15 AM
#28
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Paris in sept 2007, we ate at an Indian restaurant on rue Montorgueil, very close to rue D'aboukir(sp?) called Punjab. We have 5 different dishes like, Curried lamb and beef in sauce,chicken and lamb tandori on sticks and chicken tandori in a sauce. Plus, safron rice, wonderful potatoes,mixed veggis,flat bread and
A full carafe of a nice white wine for 37.59 Euro. This restaurant was a nice place with clean white linen tablecloths and nice glassware. We couldn't believe how great the food was for so little money. Here in Dallas we have some great Indian restaurants and for that meal it would have been well over $100.00. Also, the little streets between Blvd St Germain-- Rue de Ecoles-- Blvd St Michel--Rue de Cardinal are full of great restaurants that serve Greek,Italian,Lebanese,French and other foods for as little as 6 euro per person. I think plate for plate, at the same level of restaurant.... We find a better value for our money in Paris then we do in large American tourist cities. Germany is even a better value.
A full carafe of a nice white wine for 37.59 Euro. This restaurant was a nice place with clean white linen tablecloths and nice glassware. We couldn't believe how great the food was for so little money. Here in Dallas we have some great Indian restaurants and for that meal it would have been well over $100.00. Also, the little streets between Blvd St Germain-- Rue de Ecoles-- Blvd St Michel--Rue de Cardinal are full of great restaurants that serve Greek,Italian,Lebanese,French and other foods for as little as 6 euro per person. I think plate for plate, at the same level of restaurant.... We find a better value for our money in Paris then we do in large American tourist cities. Germany is even a better value.
Feb 4th, 2008, 03:42 AM
#29
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Next time you go to Italy, try to get away from the big cities and "tourist favorite" towns. Since you avoided the English menu places etc. you were in some heavily tourist oriented areas. We spend 2 months each year in Abruzzo and have a number of excellent tratorias as well as better restaurants where we are regulars. Prices for two range from E 8.00 to E30.00. Panino to a full dinner, including wine. My point is, the lesser known regions have a much more realistic,based on the local economy spending ability, attitude toward food prices.......and in my opinion, authenticity.
Feb 4th, 2008, 03:45 AM
#30
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Oh, now in NYC the "restuarant owners new ploy" is wine by the glass at $20.00 30.00. Sure there is a selection of various vineyards/regions......but I really resent the excessive mark-ups. Watch out this trend might leak out into the Midwest......
Feb 4th, 2008, 04:18 AM
#31
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Minneapolis is NOT a major world class tourist city! You cannot compare it to Rome or Venice, it is ridiculous to do so. If you want to make a fair comparison, compare NYC and Rome, or Minneapolis and a non touristy Italian city. I totally agree that Rome is expensive, even to those of us who are paid in euro, but you are not comparing like with like.
Feb 4th, 2008, 05:02 AM
#32
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STOP!
Major city comparison--Some of you seem not to have read on to the follow-up where I said I did not find this to be a problem 2 years ago when we visited Paris and the dollar was stronger. I am tying this into the dollar.
My personal feeling, and you may disagree, is that if people want to put in their 2 cents worth they should read all the thread.
Crummy pasta--Apparently we struck out on pasta. Recommended places (from travel forums, guidebooks & our apartment's owner) we tried, it certainly wasn't worth the money we paid.
Cherrybomb-- You are referring to Maude's. Not a fair comparison since everyone I've talked to around here think the place is pricey. Nice, but pricey.
Major city comparison--Some of you seem not to have read on to the follow-up where I said I did not find this to be a problem 2 years ago when we visited Paris and the dollar was stronger. I am tying this into the dollar.
My personal feeling, and you may disagree, is that if people want to put in their 2 cents worth they should read all the thread.
Crummy pasta--Apparently we struck out on pasta. Recommended places (from travel forums, guidebooks & our apartment's owner) we tried, it certainly wasn't worth the money we paid.
Cherrybomb-- You are referring to Maude's. Not a fair comparison since everyone I've talked to around here think the place is pricey. Nice, but pricey.
Feb 4th, 2008, 05:07 AM
#33
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One more thing. I clearly said that my intent had been to add this to the thread about "IS Eureope Really THAT Much More Expensive". But, that threaad had gone through so many detours that it was no longer a relevant post. This question was posted by someone new to Europe who was asking about costs. And, I am sure lots of 1st time travelers will read it.
Where do first time travelers go in Europe? Paris, London, Rome, Venice, Amsterdam perhaps. Those people need to know the realities.
Where do first time travelers go in Europe? Paris, London, Rome, Venice, Amsterdam perhaps. Those people need to know the realities.
Feb 4th, 2008, 05:15 AM
#34
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Also, I am now clearly remembering something I read in Rick Steve's book on Rome. He said frequently in Rome you can pay for something not particularly good, but if you are willing to jump up to what he and I consider occasional splurge prices, food will be excellent. We weren't willing to splurge on $75-100 meals for 2 people. I know most who post here do not see any problem with spending this kind of money for every meal. I do.
Feb 4th, 2008, 05:19 AM
#35
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Menus from places we have eaten at during our visits 3 years ago -
pound for dollar these are very similar prices to the standard of food we expeience in the UK
HOWEVER, add 10ish % tax and 20% tip in the States.
I know this discussion could run for ever but this is our experience.
www.piscesofchatham.com/
www.sharpiesgrill.com/menupdfs/Dinner.pdf
pound for dollar these are very similar prices to the standard of food we expeience in the UK
HOWEVER, add 10ish % tax and 20% tip in the States.
I know this discussion could run for ever but this is our experience.
www.piscesofchatham.com/
www.sharpiesgrill.com/menupdfs/Dinner.pdf
Feb 4th, 2008, 05:24 AM
#36
I think the mistake being made here is comparing anything "there" to hometown middle America.
I've been traveling to Europe since 1993, at least 2 times, if not more, a year. Back then, when the dollar was doing very well against the Irish punt, things like Coca Cola, Haagen Dazs bars and Levi's were significantly more expensive "there" in Ireland than here in Boston. That's just economics. But I could eat extremely well less expensively if I ate an Irish breakfast or at a pub or small local establishment. And I believe that still holds true today.
I also challenge you to compare where you eat at home to where I eat just outside of Boston. I'm willing to wager you'd experience similar economic shock. What about when you go to New York, LA or San Francisco, you don't feel it there too?
If you can't enjoy traveling without getting so hung up in the economics, maybe it's time to stay home.
I've been traveling to Europe since 1993, at least 2 times, if not more, a year. Back then, when the dollar was doing very well against the Irish punt, things like Coca Cola, Haagen Dazs bars and Levi's were significantly more expensive "there" in Ireland than here in Boston. That's just economics. But I could eat extremely well less expensively if I ate an Irish breakfast or at a pub or small local establishment. And I believe that still holds true today.
I also challenge you to compare where you eat at home to where I eat just outside of Boston. I'm willing to wager you'd experience similar economic shock. What about when you go to New York, LA or San Francisco, you don't feel it there too?
If you can't enjoy traveling without getting so hung up in the economics, maybe it's time to stay home.
Feb 4th, 2008, 05:25 AM
#37
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I agree that its more expensive however I own the table all night if...I dine in the evening over a several course meal (seldom). I usually eat my main meal in the afternoon and have tapas or small bites at the bar at nine or so. The 3*'s are my one treat per trip and I milk it for three hours!
Feb 4th, 2008, 05:25 AM
#38
The last time I was in Rome we ate at a small local restaurant near Trajan's Column. No Menu - we were the only non Italians there. Five Excellent courses each plus a litre of Wine and water. €38 for both.
I don't understand the Coke Lite issue. Whay should an American soft drink be cheap everywhere. It is like saying " I ordered a bottle of Italian wine in New York and it cost $25. In Italy it would have cost me <10.
I have no experience of US prices, and am in no position to judge, but surely one must compare like with like.
I don't understand the Coke Lite issue. Whay should an American soft drink be cheap everywhere. It is like saying " I ordered a bottle of Italian wine in New York and it cost $25. In Italy it would have cost me <10.
I have no experience of US prices, and am in no position to judge, but surely one must compare like with like.
Feb 4th, 2008, 05:33 AM
#39
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You can find cheap good food, cheap bad food, expensive good food and and expensive bad food in ANY city. I just returned from Barcelona and we ate both cheaply and moderately. I wouldn't call it expensive. Are the prices higher than lst year or the year before that, yeah a bit due to the exchange rate. But living in NYC area ( Hoboken to be exact) I actually still find most places in Europe less expensive with the exception of London maybe. It's all relative and what your are used to. I'm used to paying 16 bucks for a martini so when I pay 8 Euro for one it's still less than usual.
Feb 4th, 2008, 05:35 AM
#40
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Just checked my credit card from our summer trip to Italy. We flew back through NYC. Okay - didn't go to Rome, but went to Milan which I can't imagine is MUCH cheaper than Rome. This is purely anectdotal, purely personal experience - but:
Dinner for 4 at nice restaurant in Milan, including wine, appertif, 3 of 4 ate fish - $204 (don't know what this was in Euros-this is the amount that came through on my AmX). Dinner 2 weeks later in NYC - Ristorante La Pescatore in the East Village (local, NOT top of the line) - including a bottle of the Nobile we had enjoyed so much in Italy: $294 (this included tip).
Sorry Julies - I see no comparison at all between a lunchtime Indian buffet in the midwest (did I read Minneapolis?) and restaurant prices in Rome.
Dinner for 4 at nice restaurant in Milan, including wine, appertif, 3 of 4 ate fish - $204 (don't know what this was in Euros-this is the amount that came through on my AmX). Dinner 2 weeks later in NYC - Ristorante La Pescatore in the East Village (local, NOT top of the line) - including a bottle of the Nobile we had enjoyed so much in Italy: $294 (this included tip).
Sorry Julies - I see no comparison at all between a lunchtime Indian buffet in the midwest (did I read Minneapolis?) and restaurant prices in Rome.
