KDenise

Just got back from 17 days in Italy myself (of course, 2 of those were flying to and from). <BR>Do keep in mind that if you are skimming or delving, there is travel time between whatever cities you choose. Of course, if you are concentrating on one region, that cuts down travel time, but hitting the majors means losing half-days from your 'experiencing' time. So, 3 cities is doable, but if you really only have 9 days of actual Italy time, that is 2 1/2 in each place. <BR> <BR>My itinerary was a little too packed, I felt, though I do feel I got a grand overview of each place I visited. Now I have this longggg list of things I will need to plan for my next trip to Italia. <BR> <BR>

qiu

<BR>Sandy, actually you could do both delving and skimming. <BR> <BR>I took a guided tour once, saw 7 US cities in 13 days and swore never to do it again. I saw everything but I saw nothing. <BR> <BR>Now I would see only 1 country per 2 wk trip on my own, free and easy. If I like a town I delve, if I don't I skim. You could say I'm now a "discerning delver". <BR> <BR>

Chris

I'm a skimmer! I figure that it may be my only chance to see/do something, so I'm going to see/do as much as I can. <BR> <BR>My first trip to Paris was a weekend -- about 50 hours from landing to takeoff. Everyone said I was crazy. Insane. It was THE BEST trip I ever took (also the shortest)!!! I never thought I'd be in Paris, and even on the RER from the airport I was thrilled to be there (I never even wanted to go -- figured it was over-rated). And having lived in France for 2 years, I STILL love going into Paris for the day! <BR> <BR>Two days in Venice and I want to go back!! I saw a lot, but I want to go back so I can relax a little there. But had I relaxed, I wouldn't have seen as much. Two days in Florence and I feel like I saw everything I wanted to -- if I had 4 days there I'd go out of my mind (but others can spend a month there and not feel the way I do about it). In Rome, I thought I'd send my coins into the Trevi fountain and move onto something else -- but I found I had to just sit and enjoy the fountain (and watch everyone else toss their coins over their shoulders)! <BR> <BR>One thing I always do is rate the importance of things I want to see. This way if I want to spend 2 hours in the Coloseum instead of 1, I do it in lieu of seeing something else. And don't make something important that you can do "anytime" -- like seeing Egyptian art at the Louvre. If you live close to NYC, you can see similar stuff at the Met, so why spend time looking at it in the Louvre? But do find out if they have something the Met doesn't, and put THAT on your list! <BR> <BR>And just because you skim doesn't mean you won't have time to soak up some atmosphere. Take time for breaks, sit at that outside table, have your coffee and watch the world go by for an hour or so. It'll help you feel less frantic also. <BR> <BR>Skim first, delve later. You never know what will grab you while you're skimming, so allow for a quick delve. <BR> <BR>And as a skimmer, here's a tip -- when you get to your hotel, grab a couple of their city maps and write in where the attractions are (if stores, or something not already marked), the hours they're open (and days!) and the exact address. It really helps -- if you don't have that info already on the map, you'll be trying to find streets, wasting valuable skim time!

dan woodlief

I have done it both ways Sandy. My preference is to see a whole lot but not move around too much in the process, so I will stay in maybe three places and do daytrips if I venture out. I had a hotel in Cancun once for 1 1/2 weeks and only spent about a quarter of my time actually in the city and saw a large chunk of the Yucatan. I have also been to 7 countries in three weeks in Europe. I just returned from a trip to Italy, where I took somewhat of a delve approach because I do plan to return within the next few years. I regret not seeing much of the countryside or smaller towns, but I do plan to return. You really don't have to lose much time in transit if you work hard at planning the travel time. We took the 3-hour train ride from Venice to Florence after dark so we didn't lose daylight in either place. We took the 1 1/2 hour fast train from Florence to Rome. We didn't even depart until 7:40 a.m. and were out sightseeing in Rome by 10:00 (a lot of people don't get out much earlier than this even when they are already there). You can also delve and skim at the same time. You can delve by studying the language, reading about the history and art, and learning about the culture ahead of time. This is really a way of making it a better learning experience all the way around even if you decide to skim on the actual visit. Personally, I would advise skimming a little on this trip if you really don't think you can get back for a long time. With that in mind, Rome and Venice are musts, with Florence being almost a must. Rome requires at least three days, one for the Vatican and a few other sights, one for the ancient sights, and one for just walking around Medieval Rome and other areas. Venice requires three as well; as much as I love to see sights, others are absolutely right when they say Venice as a whole is the best sight there, it is best at a relaxed pace, and you have to walk to most places; even if you never stepped into a museum or church, you would likely love the experience of Venice and not feel any great loss. Florence requires one day if you don't care about art and just want to walk around because it is more compact than the others. Two days are required to see the top sights, three will allow you to see a lot and not rush too much, and four should allow you to see most of it. I would suggest at least 3 full days in Rome, 3 full days in Venice, 2 full days in Florence, and then apportion the rest to places in Tuscany or around Rome or Venice depending on your interests. I will say that even when skimming, I always feel like I got more out of a visit and got to know a place a little better if I at least spent one night and two days.

lisa

I don't think this question can be answered simply because it depends on your travel style and what you like to see and do. <BR> <BR>I guess I'd call myself a "delver", since I don't like to move around too much and like to get the "feel" of how it would be to live in a place. On the other hand, I don't usually plan my trips with all big sightseeing cities, but try to make a balance of cities and smaller towns. <BR> <BR>As an example, we had planned a trip to Italy this fall (9/11 got in the way) with the same amount of time you have. I had never been to Italy; my husband has been to Rome and Florence. Rather than try to see Rome, Florence and Venice (3 big cities with a large amount of travel between), we split the country into north and south and decided to see the north. We planned a few days at Lake Como, a few days at Cinque Terre, longer visits to Florence and Venice. We figured if we were bored at any of the above, we could add a day trip to Siena or some other town. This gave us a mix of big cities (with their museums, etc) and smaller towns (with more bucolic surroundings and relaxation on the agenda). Of course, I know that since my husband likes Rome, I will probably be able to talk him into going to Italy again sometime in our lifetimes to cover the south.

trying

To each his own. I have only been to Europe 3 times. 2 were more skimming, the 3rd was more delving. I think skimming is underrated. There is a complete and utter (your a farmer, so udder) rush visiting the sites and seeing the sights. You will never be bored, and will come home tired but smiling. It is not a vacation, per say, though. During my more delving-type trip, I felt more rested on return, but the wow factor was a bit diminished. Still enjoyed all the trips. One caveat, I "skimmed" on my own (not on a tour), which forced me to interact with the locals and local environs, making the experience real, and not so much like a tv show. That said, if you skim, you will want to return a month after you get back, so start planning for next year!

linda

Sandy, At a glance some people might think that I tend to skim an area or town. For example, one night stands in the middle of a week or a country. However, my usual plan of action when I am visiting a country, trying to both see and enjoy as much as possible, is to stay 3-4-5 days in an area before moving onto the next region. Because I don't like to spend a long time in the car or on a train between destinations, I will choose a spot between regions for an over night stay. Without the burden of a long commute I have the luxury of a late departure if I am so inclined. My one night stands are not an effort to "see" that area, it is an effort not to feel rushed during my trip and to build in flexibility. Ironically, some of my favorite memories have occurred on my overnights. My overnight in Vezelay, between Paris and Beaune, and my overnight in Cassis, between Cap Ferrat and St. Remy were trip highlights I will always treasure. On your trip I would spend 3 nights each in Venice, Florence, and Rome, planning a stopover for one night in Tuscany. Then, for example, if you want to leave Florence early in the day for an afternoon in Tuscany, it is do-able. The next day you can linger in the morning in a vineyard, or head out early for Rome. It also has a ripple effect. If you are loving Venice, you can linger knowing that you will not need to rush out of Florence. This system works for me. It succeeds in being the stress reliever it is intended to be! <BR> <BR>Have a great trip. <BR> <BR>linda <BR> <BR>

trying

One other comment: I said that skimming is underrated, but that doesn't mean it is the best thing for everyone. Whichever you choose, and however you end up traveling, PLEASE don't come back to this website and be all snooty about it: Too many people suggest that skimming is for shallow people, or that delving is for slow people. Often, travel styles have more to do with available vacation time and money, than anything else.

topper

Topping to push all those ridiculous "Which Country" threads down.

jane

to skim or to delve, that is the question.

Dean

Let me ring in for the Delver's of the world. On our first trip to Itlay, we spent 3 nights in Rome, 3 in Modena, 3 in Florence, 5 in Castellina and 3 in Castelnuova Beredegna. The latter two are in the tuscan countryside. Since then we have mostly stayed in locations for a week at a time. Our last trip was with 2 teenagers ane we took a week in the Tuscan countryside with 3 days in Sorrento and 4 in Rome. One thing is perfectly clear. We ahve enjoyed our delves best. <BR> <BR>Italy is a country with a very distinct culture that revolves around food. You start your day at a bar with a caffe and paste (pastries). Many sights are open from 9 am till 1pm and again from 4 till 7 in summer and 3:30 till 6 in winter. So even if you want to pack a lot in, it can be difficult. A meal in any sort of restaurant with table service will run 90 minutes. Our days in Italy typically start at 8 or 9am and end up at midnight with a final gelato. We have learned to slow down and just enjoy the sensual pleasures of just being in Italy. Don't get me wrong, we do go to museums and church's galore (just search for some of my other threads). <BR> <BR>Let's face it, if you skim, you will certainly be returning with a burning desire to go back and see more everywhere you have been. If you delve you will probably come back with the same feeling. We stayed in a tiny village in Marche called Cagli for a week and could easily spend 2 more weeks there again. On our first trip to Venice it took me three days to fall in love with the city. On a skimmers trip, I would have missed out on my now favorite city. <BR> <BR>Lastly, with skimming, you are almost certainly going to be rushing from one attraction to another. And our favorite happenstances in Itlay were mostly unplanned. That happens only if you have enough time to explore. <BR> <BR>To wrap up, you can be a tourist (someone with somewhere to be at a certain time) or a traveler (someone for whom just being there is the object) weather you are skimming or delving. I reccomend picking one spot for a week and then one more spot for the rest of your time and just have fun <BR> <BR>

Sandy

I love this thread, if I may say so myself :~) <BR> <BR>It seems like the majority are in favor of delving, although I think skimmers aren't far behind. A lot of people have hit it, I think, when they say with limited time, and uncertainty of a return, skim. With unlimited travel time and money, delve, when they know a return trip may be in the near future. My itinerary so far is 3 nights Rome, 5 nights in Siena, with a day trip into Florence, and 2 nights in Venice. It is important to me to get a feel for everyday life as well as see the cities; therefore, we will have a car in Siena for day trips throughout Tuscany. I know I am forfeiting the art portion in Florence with only one day, but I really felt a need to see the countryside and everyday life as well. But, reality check, I had to drop some things on the agenda. We're used to a hectic home schedule, so one abroad will be right up our alley! <BR> <BR>Cheryl, a gentleman's farm is...a smaller acreage property than a working farm, with animals as pets instead of for eating. It's flower gardens instead of crops, fancy chickens instead of egg layers, a Scottish Highland steer as a lawn ornament, instead of dinner, llamas and horses, etc. Someone referred to me as a farmer, no, I work full time outside of the house, it's just a hobby. <BR> <BR>But, thanks again everyone for your opinions. It's great to see skimmers and delvers can all get along! Sandy

Dean

Just a suggestion now that you have posted your itinerary. I would not stay in Siena itelf. The parking gettting in and out of town will subtract many an hour of your day. Try somewhere around San Gimignano and you will be closer to Florence and yet still not very far from Montalcino, Montepulciano and other great sights in souther Tuscany. See my posting Toscana Suggestions here if you want my input on what to see. I would definitely visit Siena but not stay there. <BR> <BR>I would also try to extend Venice to 3 days. Weather you train or car to Venice it is a long drive and you will spend most of a day getting to your hotel. If you train, you can get a vaporetto right outside the train station. If you drive and drop your rental off at Piazalle Roma, you will need to leave your car in a garage and then drop the keys off at teh rental office if you arrive after hours. If so, best to leave you luggage with one of you and then dispose of the car. Trying to drag luggage from the garages to the Vaporetto stop is hard. <BR> <BR>A tip on the Vaporetto. There are 2 directions for every vaporetto. At the larger stations, there are two barges floating, one for each direction. There is a sign hanging showing the direction your vaporetto is heading. Get the line that hits closest to your hotel. After you have checked in, then go and take wither the 82 or the 1 vaporetto for a grand tour of Venice. A three day pass makes taking the Vaporetti so easy but it is probably more expensive than single tickets. <BR> <BR>Better yet, take a water taxi. Much more exciting but also much more incredible a way to see the city for the first time! <BR> <BR>Be sure to try Fiaschetteria for dinner, do Mori and Achiugette for snacks and winesby the glass, Nico for gelato!

linda

Sandy, Thank you for sharing what you think will be your itinerary with us. I would have been excited for you however you planned your trip. I bet and hope you go back! <BR> <BR>linda

John

This is a nice, civil, useful thread. Congratulations to all contributors, and kudos to Sandy for coining an apt expression for the turmoil lots of us go through. <BR> <BR>Personally, we started off more as skimmers but became incresingly delvish as we got older and more exposed to various travel options. It remains a very personal choice, though, and there's no right or wrong answer. Depends to some degree on what you want out of a trip - sights and museums, maybe, versus country walks and siestas. Both are equally valid, but tend to be mutually exclusive in a limited time. <BR> <BR>We increasingly try to plan for two-fers, i.e., where you can have a couple of experiences simultaneously, for example by going to a professional conference in a city you'd like to visit, or clothing or holiday shopping in Europe instead of the mall (you have to do it anyway, so why not make it fun?) This way, you not only can play the tourist, but you are "forced" into greater interaction with your environment than just watching it go by outside the train or car window. <BR> <BR>Along these lines, I had a thought for Sandy - have you thought about "agritourismo" and/or home exchange? Especially in Italy, there are lots of resources for this sort of travel, where you might be able to compare notes with fellow gentlemen farmers (we call them "hobby farmers" hereabouts), or, in the case of home exchange, you might feel your crops and critters are in better hands. There are undoubtedly "agritourismo" resources in the parts of Italy you're visiting, convenient for day trips <I>into</I> the cities, not out of them, and a side benefit is that this is usually a far less expensive way to travel, too.

Bill

I vote "skim". Like the original poster, I can only get away for a week or 10 days at a time. We would rather see a variety of places in a country rather than stay in one city and delve. On the other hand, I could never do the wirlwind tour where you only spend a single night in each place (though a single night makes sense divide up a long drive). I find two nights in each location works nicely. In Southwestern Ireland, we stayed in four different farmhouse B&Bs for two nights each. Perfect! Last summer's trip started and ended in Munich, with a circuit through the Italian Alps - four places for two nights each one place for one. Amsterdam a few years ago was good for 5 nights, but we did extensive day trips outside of the city, and stayed in Iceland for two nights coming home.

Cheryl Z.

<BR>Sandy, thanks for answering my question. I have a similar "farm" - a shetland pony, goats, geese and ducks, and other critters in the past - all companions, not for food, too. So I understand your not being able to get away much. <BR>At any rate, enjoy your skimming and delving!

Holly

I think it's very difficult to strike a balance. I had the good fortune of studying and working in Italy for a few years before returning to Europe with a friend who had never been. Despite my protests, we covered WAY too much ground in 3 weeks, and she told me halfway through the trip (maybe even sooner) that she wished we had planned less and delved more. On the other hand, she got a taste of 3 different countries and has returned to explore her favorites in more depth.

kam

We are certainly delvers! I've found that the trips where we skimmed, everything tends to blur together. We have a great interest in history and so must see it all on any given trip.

sandy c

hi sandy, <BR> <BR>from one sandy to another, don't skim. I have been to paris now for a week 3 times in the last 6 years. I still have not covered all the ground i want to with that city...twice in london. <BR> <BR>try this suggestion..pick one big city like rome and use that as your base for 11 days. plan 2 or 3 day trips into the countryside. trips that you get up early in the morning and leave out early and come back that evening. or plan one or two overnights. this way you can fly in and out of the same city, have one hotel reservation and contract out or use fast trains for the day trips. <BR> <BR>in paris, with the museum strike we substituted 2 days trips and spent both in the french countryside and it was wonderful. we had enough time to see most of the important sites of paris and then was exposed to the wonderful and charming countryside. <BR> <BR>i know now that because of those day trips i would love to do a 3 or 4 week trip around france. <BR> <BR>my first trip, a 16 day excursion around great britian was exciting and disappointing at the same time. exciting because of all the great sites and people i saw and met, but at the same time major disappointment because i never got a chance to really get a feel for each area. we would get there, see it, and leave all within the space of a day or two. my biggest disappointment was only spending 5 of the 16 days in scotland. next year i will be taking 30 days off and going on a britrail pass around scotland. <BR> <BR>so, to me with only 10 days i can't see you really enjoying the 3 or 4 areas unless you do it as day trips out of one major area. <BR> <BR>hope this helps, <BR> <BR>sandy c <BR>