titles in Austria
Dec 8th, 2007, 10:51 AM
#21
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Thanks all, (oder meine Frauen und Herren), but...my step-mother from Vienna told me when I was a child, before women's lib, that I should marry a doctor, so that I could be Frau Doctor. Now that I myself am one, isn't the title for my own doctorate the same as if I had merely married one?
Dec 8th, 2007, 11:03 AM
#23
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Sorry for my mistake above - I have misread that your husband is a professor but has no doctorate.
>my step-mother from Vienna told me when I was a child, before women's lib, that I should marry a doctor, so that I could be Frau Doctor. Now that I myself am one, isn't the title for my own doctorate the same as if I had merely married one?
In Germany, the title of the husband has not been transferred to the wife for long time now (it was this way though).
In Austria it is a rather recent development - so especially older people can lapse.
>my step-mother from Vienna told me when I was a child, before women's lib, that I should marry a doctor, so that I could be Frau Doctor. Now that I myself am one, isn't the title for my own doctorate the same as if I had merely married one?
In Germany, the title of the husband has not been transferred to the wife for long time now (it was this way though).
In Austria it is a rather recent development - so especially older people can lapse.
.
Dec 9th, 2007, 05:14 AM
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Hi H,
> isn't the title for my own doctorate the same as if I had merely married one?
If you had married Dr X, with your own doctorate, you would be Frau Doktor Doktor X.
By yourself, you are Doktor H.
In the UK, if you were a titled Lady with an academic honorific who had gone into the army, you could be General Doctor Lady H.
If you were to marry Lord Robert Y, you would would be general doctor lady Robert. (Muffy to your friends)
> isn't the title for my own doctorate the same as if I had merely married one?
If you had married Dr X, with your own doctorate, you would be Frau Doktor Doktor X.
By yourself, you are Doktor H.
In the UK, if you were a titled Lady with an academic honorific who had gone into the army, you could be General Doctor Lady H.
If you were to marry Lord Robert Y, you would would be general doctor lady Robert. (Muffy to your friends)
Dec 9th, 2007, 09:02 AM
#30
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"Mr Waring Esquire. BA (Hons)." You really ought to know better. <b> Either </b> Mr <b> OR </b> Esquire. But never both. And there are practically no circumstances in which suffixing BA (Hons) is anything other than naff. Sort of thing headmasters of seedy prep schools do when they're touting for business.
"In the UK, if you were a titled Lady with an academic honorific who had gone into the army, you could be General Doctor Lady H". OK, ira's American, so he can't be expected to know any better.
Doctorates cumulate in British English only under very rare circumstances, and "lady" no longer cumulates by marriage. She might be General Lady Cholmendely if she'd been given a peerage herself. Or she might be General The Countess of Cholmendelyshire if hers was one of those titles that can be inherited through the female line. If Buffy Warner marries Lord Cholmendely, these days she'd be General Warner in the army and Lady Cholmendely when out distributing soup to her husband's destitute tenantry.
The only circumstance I can thing of where doctorates cumulate is for clerics. "The Right Rev Dr Warner Cholmendely" is quite standard.
This isn't fanciful. I actually know someone who's The Very Rev Professor Sir..... But, in spite of more doctorates (mostly honorary) than most people have got books, he's not used the Doctor title since he got his first professorship.
"In the UK, if you were a titled Lady with an academic honorific who had gone into the army, you could be General Doctor Lady H". OK, ira's American, so he can't be expected to know any better.
Doctorates cumulate in British English only under very rare circumstances, and "lady" no longer cumulates by marriage. She might be General Lady Cholmendely if she'd been given a peerage herself. Or she might be General The Countess of Cholmendelyshire if hers was one of those titles that can be inherited through the female line. If Buffy Warner marries Lord Cholmendely, these days she'd be General Warner in the army and Lady Cholmendely when out distributing soup to her husband's destitute tenantry.
The only circumstance I can thing of where doctorates cumulate is for clerics. "The Right Rev Dr Warner Cholmendely" is quite standard.
This isn't fanciful. I actually know someone who's The Very Rev Professor Sir..... But, in spite of more doctorates (mostly honorary) than most people have got books, he's not used the Doctor title since he got his first professorship.
Dec 11th, 2007, 06:16 AM
#32
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You have to be really careful with the Austrians and their titles...my husband is Austrian, and from an academic family...but it basically goes for all austrians regardless.
I have some hilarious stories. I have gotten my husband out of the title thang...but then sometimes he forgets that he really must use his titles..doktor doktor! in Austria. For example, he has tried to book restaurants in Vienna without his title- and apparantly there are no tables free - but when introducing the doktor doktor - a table magically appears. Some time when I have time - I'll write about the title problems we had in relation to our wedding - unbelieveable. Remember, the Austrians take it so seriously that they often apply for a new passport when they get their new title.
I have some hilarious stories. I have gotten my husband out of the title thang...but then sometimes he forgets that he really must use his titles..doktor doktor! in Austria. For example, he has tried to book restaurants in Vienna without his title- and apparantly there are no tables free - but when introducing the doktor doktor - a table magically appears. Some time when I have time - I'll write about the title problems we had in relation to our wedding - unbelieveable. Remember, the Austrians take it so seriously that they often apply for a new passport when they get their new title.
Dec 11th, 2007, 07:17 AM
#34
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>And yet, they banned all the "von's".
I would say it makes sense.
If you have a doctorate it is (well, mostly) your own merit.
If you have a "von" in the name, usually it is not.
I would say it makes sense.
If you have a doctorate it is (well, mostly) your own merit.
If you have a "von" in the name, usually it is not.
Dec 11th, 2007, 02:18 PM
#35
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flanneruk:
RE " If Buffy Warner marries Lord Cholmendely, these days she'd be General Warner in the army..."
Huh? I can't prove you're wrong but this sure sounds counter-intuitive.
How can a woman be denied her married name and forced to use her maiden name...in title- and status-conscious Britain, of all places?
BTW: maybe all posters could agree to use the familiar spelling Cholmondeley, as in Marquis of....
US readers take note:
It's pronounced "Chumley", I believe.
RE " If Buffy Warner marries Lord Cholmendely, these days she'd be General Warner in the army..."
Huh? I can't prove you're wrong but this sure sounds counter-intuitive.
How can a woman be denied her married name and forced to use her maiden name...in title- and status-conscious Britain, of all places?
BTW: maybe all posters could agree to use the familiar spelling Cholmondeley, as in Marquis of....
US readers take note:
It's pronounced "Chumley", I believe.
Dec 11th, 2007, 06:11 PM
#36
I love this topic as we are headed to Austria this summer! We are visiting some of my DH's relatives and now I know to be more formal in the initial introductions. (just to seem proper of course!) 
Of course, maybe I will need to use the Doctor Doctor for reservations in dining...just kidding.
Of course, maybe I will need to use the Doctor Doctor for reservations in dining...
just kidding.
Dec 12th, 2007, 06:17 AM
#39
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Thank you for the correction, F.
>If Buffy Warner marries Lord Cholmendely, these days she'd be General Warner in the army and Lady Cholmendely when out distributing soup ..<
If Lord C were named Bubba, would she not be Lady Bubba, to distinguish her from the other wives of the various Lords C?
Hi L,
>when introducing the doktor doktor - a table magically appears.
My Lady Wife always makes reservations for Prof Dr and herself.
>If Buffy Warner marries Lord Cholmendely, these days she'd be General Warner in the army and Lady Cholmendely when out distributing soup ..<
If Lord C were named Bubba, would she not be Lady Bubba, to distinguish her from the other wives of the various Lords C?
Hi L,
>when introducing the doktor doktor - a table magically appears.
My Lady Wife always makes reservations for Prof Dr and herself.
Dec 19th, 2007, 10:41 AM
#40
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'Fräulein (not Fraulein) is definitely considered old-fashioned and an absolute no-no in Germany because there is no equivalent for unmarried men. Why stress whether a woman is married or not? Every woman is titled "Frau".'
I *wondered* how the German language had handled Women's Lib! In US English, of course, Women's Lib in the 1970's brought the generic "Ms" into the language to replace "Miss" and "Mrs." I'd never had a chance to find out how the German language handled the same cultural change.
Alle Damen sind anscheinend "Frauen" heuzutage, Ja?
I *wondered* how the German language had handled Women's Lib! In US English, of course, Women's Lib in the 1970's brought the generic "Ms" into the language to replace "Miss" and "Mrs." I'd never had a chance to find out how the German language handled the same cultural change.
Alle Damen sind anscheinend "Frauen" heuzutage, Ja?
