Tips for learning to drink wine?
Jan 10th, 2004, 04:57 PM
#41
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And ChatNoir, I do know what you mean by pinched expressions. I have had some Chiantis that are so smooth that even my wife liked them, and she'll tell you she doesn't like reds. But then I've brought home a more expensive Chianti Classico (I am almost embarrassed to admit) that I couldn't finish. I think it's a matter of finding the one's you like, but I wouldn't drink it either if I wasn't enjoying it.
Jan 10th, 2004, 05:04 PM
#42
Sweet wines are for dessert.
play safe with a white dry for fish, a more robust red for meat, an earthy white for pork but things have changed the rules broken, even in France reds are slightly chilled, but these are young wines. You never destroy the bouquet of an expensive one by chilling it
play safe with a white dry for fish, a more robust red for meat, an earthy white for pork but things have changed the rules broken, even in France reds are slightly chilled, but these are young wines. You never destroy the bouquet of an expensive one by chilling it
Jan 10th, 2004, 07:32 PM
#43
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One more thing to keep in mind. You might be able to buy the same chianti at home you had in that little trattoria in Tuscany, or the same bordeaux you had at the brasserie in Paris, but I can guarantee you it just won't taste the same. It's the mystery of wine -- much of the taste will be totally dependent upon where you are when you drink it.
Jan 10th, 2004, 07:55 PM
#44
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I disagree that the house wines are served only in carafes. The vaste majority of house wines that I order for two in Europe are in bottles and are generally brought to the table unopened for me to read the label and approve - as if I'd know. These are not expensive restaurants.
The only time I recall wine in a carafe was in two different crepe restaurants in Montparnasse.
The only time I recall wine in a carafe was in two different crepe restaurants in Montparnasse.
Jan 11th, 2004, 12:54 AM
#45
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I've had house wines served both in carafes and straight from the bottle. IME, in the UK it usually tends to come in bottles, whereas in Greece it's nearly always a carafe or jug and other countries seem to vary according to the restaurant.
Jan 11th, 2004, 02:45 AM
#46
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Anna1013 This website may help www.tasting-wine.com/
Jan 11th, 2004, 09:33 AM
#47
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Anna -- what state do you live in? Are there any wineries near by? It's been interesting to see how more places are now producing wines, and some are amazingly good. Thomas Jefferson thought the area around Charlottesville, VA would be good for wine, and it took over 200 years, but turns out he's right. There are also good wines produced in New York state, in North Carolina, and of course on teh West Coast, California, Oregon and Washington. If you're near to any of these areas, take a weekend trip to taste wines. My 25 year old daughter came with us last Spring to a tasting at Horton winery in VA, and learned a ton in one day...including that she likes red wine better than white now! There were "vertical" tastings, where you got to taste the difference between the "same" wine produced different years -- i.e., Cabernet Franc from 1992, 93, 94, 95, 96, 97, 98, 99, etc. Also a barrel tasting, where you see what it tastes like at a couple of stages before it's ready for bottling.
Another good way to get a good read on multiple wines is to find a restaurant that matches wine by the glass with each course of your meal. It usually is a bit more expensive than ordering one bottle to have with the whole meal, but it's really cool to see how certain types of wine really do taste better with certain kinds of foods.
Have fun...don't worry if you "don't like" something other people are raving about...what's important is that you learn what you really do like, and that the same wine can taste different depending on what you're eating with it!
Another good way to get a good read on multiple wines is to find a restaurant that matches wine by the glass with each course of your meal. It usually is a bit more expensive than ordering one bottle to have with the whole meal, but it's really cool to see how certain types of wine really do taste better with certain kinds of foods.
Have fun...don't worry if you "don't like" something other people are raving about...what's important is that you learn what you really do like, and that the same wine can taste different depending on what you're eating with it!
Jan 11th, 2004, 10:08 AM
#48
Re house wine comments, I did not mean it came only in carafes but that is what I have experienced...
Well, this is Switzerland (Geneva area) and maybe it came in carafe because that's what we order ("demi"
? I stay with a friend who lives in Montreux, and believe me we drink a LOT of wine in restaurants. This is how it always arrives our table. It seems typical that we order one bottled water and one carafe of wine for 2-3 people, then more wine when that runs out.
I found the same in Paris where somehow I managed to order for myself!
Well, this is Switzerland (Geneva area) and maybe it came in carafe because that's what we order ("demi"
? I stay with a friend who lives in Montreux, and believe me we drink a LOT of wine in restaurants. This is how it always arrives our table. It seems typical that we order one bottled water and one carafe of wine for 2-3 people, then more wine when that runs out.I found the same in Paris where somehow I managed to order for myself!
Jan 11th, 2004, 01:18 PM
#50
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Earl, nothing fishy at all about screw tops on good wine. The January "Best of the Year" issue of Bon Appetit had a small article on screw tops. It said that well-regarded wineries in New Zealand, South Africa, and Australia have been experimenting for years with them, as an alternative to corks and the dreaded "cork taint." That's the smell that contaminated corks give off. The article said that California wineries have also started introducing the screw top on both reds and whites.
Jan 11th, 2004, 09:16 PM
#51
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Dear wesley,
Congratulations on your telepathic powers. While you were very busy being me (I hope you're pretty), I was on a seriously delayed Delta Flight 155 from VCE to JFK. I had no idea you could post on fodors from 30,000 feet. Modern marvels, how lovely.
I'm sorry I missed all the drama but I'll try and catch up just as soon as I get some well needed rest. In the meantime, don't let the morons get you down, dear, especially Phil-IQ24 aka ChubNuts. It's necessary for ugly to exist so we can better appreciate and cherish true beauty.
Speaking of true beauty, have you tried the 2002 Pallagrello Bianco from Vestini Campagnano? Simply divine, darling. Get your hands on a bottle before they're all gone and let me know what you think. Salute!
Congratulations on your telepathic powers. While you were very busy being me (I hope you're pretty), I was on a seriously delayed Delta Flight 155 from VCE to JFK. I had no idea you could post on fodors from 30,000 feet. Modern marvels, how lovely.
I'm sorry I missed all the drama but I'll try and catch up just as soon as I get some well needed rest. In the meantime, don't let the morons get you down, dear, especially Phil-IQ24 aka ChubNuts. It's necessary for ugly to exist so we can better appreciate and cherish true beauty.
Speaking of true beauty, have you tried the 2002 Pallagrello Bianco from Vestini Campagnano? Simply divine, darling. Get your hands on a bottle before they're all gone and let me know what you think. Salute!
Jan 12th, 2004, 03:32 AM
#52
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Ira,
The other way to look at it is that it would be interesting to see what an 8 -10 year old Brunello with a screw cap would taste like compared to one with a bad cork. A proper cork will not allow air into the bottle; if air gets into the bottle, you will ultimately have a bad bottle of wine.
NYCFS,
Love your posts, ignore the IQ balancers who post on this forum; they are only allowed here for comic relief.
The other way to look at it is that it would be interesting to see what an 8 -10 year old Brunello with a screw cap would taste like compared to one with a bad cork. A proper cork will not allow air into the bottle; if air gets into the bottle, you will ultimately have a bad bottle of wine.
NYCFS,
Love your posts, ignore the IQ balancers who post on this forum; they are only allowed here for comic relief.
Jan 12th, 2004, 03:39 AM
#53
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I would recommend wines from the French region of Alsace. These are a good compromise between the German and French styles. They generally (dangerous generalisation - but mostly true) have lower sweetness than German wines, but more than Burgundy/Loire etc.
They often go really well with food, I would say more so than the slightly sweeter German style.
Gewurztraminer is a real love it or hate it kind of variety with really 'obvious' flavours (and as such sometimes sneered at by wine buffs) - but a good introduction to wine all the same (and I would say better than mass produced Liebfraumilch anyday)
Germany does make some very fine Rieslings of course and if you get the chance to try a mature German riesling I would certainly recommend it. (Not much help to you but Majestic (a British wine retailer) offers 1985 Urziger Wurzgarten Spatlese for about $8 a bottle - which has always gone down well).
On the screwcap question. We are starting to see many New Zeanlond Sauvignon Blancs over here fitted with Stelvin (screwcap) closures. These do avoid the 5% spoilage rate present with traditional corks - but I am not sure about using them for extended aging (I'll defer to any experts on this one). They do seem to do a good job for yound, primary fruit driven wines like Kiwi Sauv though.
They often go really well with food, I would say more so than the slightly sweeter German style.
Gewurztraminer is a real love it or hate it kind of variety with really 'obvious' flavours (and as such sometimes sneered at by wine buffs) - but a good introduction to wine all the same (and I would say better than mass produced Liebfraumilch anyday)
Germany does make some very fine Rieslings of course and if you get the chance to try a mature German riesling I would certainly recommend it. (Not much help to you but Majestic (a British wine retailer) offers 1985 Urziger Wurzgarten Spatlese for about $8 a bottle - which has always gone down well).
On the screwcap question. We are starting to see many New Zeanlond Sauvignon Blancs over here fitted with Stelvin (screwcap) closures. These do avoid the 5% spoilage rate present with traditional corks - but I am not sure about using them for extended aging (I'll defer to any experts on this one). They do seem to do a good job for yound, primary fruit driven wines like Kiwi Sauv though.
Jan 12th, 2004, 04:27 AM
#54
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If wineries go to screw tops, what will I do with all of the corkscrews that I started collecting??
My "house red" has a sythetic cork and I can handle that a lot easier than I can handle screwtops.
My "house red" has a sythetic cork and I can handle that a lot easier than I can handle screwtops.
Jan 12th, 2004, 06:00 AM
#55
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Oh_so_bucko wrote,
>...it would be interesting to see what an 8 -10 year old Brunello with a screw cap would taste like compared to one with a bad cork. <
True, true. How often does one get a bottle of wine with a bad cork? I estimate that I have found about 5 in the last 40 years. Each time I have returned the bottle for a full refund.
>...it would be interesting to see what an 8 -10 year old Brunello with a screw cap would taste like compared to one with a bad cork. <
True, true. How often does one get a bottle of wine with a bad cork? I estimate that I have found about 5 in the last 40 years. Each time I have returned the bottle for a full refund.
Jan 12th, 2004, 06:04 AM
#56
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To follow up on Steve's remarks re Gewurztraminer, the Rosemount people (Australia) have a nice Gewurztraminer/Riesling blend that is moderately dry with a very good citrus (mainly grapefruit) finish. Goes very well with fish and seafood. Under $10.00.
Jan 12th, 2004, 06:16 AM
#57
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I keep a small (1000-bottle, more or less) cellar - about half in second and third growth Bordeaux from reasonably good years with the other half being a bit of just about everything else. My experience with corked bottles is about what I understand to be the industry average - about one bottle in 20 (5%).
Synthetic corks are a good start, but after pouring what amounts to hundreds, if not thousands, of dollars worth of what should have been great wine down the drain over many years, screwcaps can't get here soon enough for me. The romance is in the wine, not in some old bit of tree bark stuffed into the top of the bottle.
Synthetic corks are a good start, but after pouring what amounts to hundreds, if not thousands, of dollars worth of what should have been great wine down the drain over many years, screwcaps can't get here soon enough for me. The romance is in the wine, not in some old bit of tree bark stuffed into the top of the bottle.
Jan 12th, 2004, 06:43 AM
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Hi Anna,
It is clear to see from the great answers you are getting that everyone has their own opinion as to what is their favourite wine.
None are wrong but they may not necessarily be your favourite.
The fun in learning about wine is in the tasting and trying different types do just that, try different wines ask the waiters in restaurants what they recommend and remember the good and forget the bad.
It's great fun learning.
For practice before you go select several varieties from your local supplier and try them out.
If you cant remember them, then perhaps you had too much...lol
Good suggestion Klondike, get your friends around, but from experience my friends would drink anything I gave them so beware.
Good luck
It is clear to see from the great answers you are getting that everyone has their own opinion as to what is their favourite wine.
None are wrong but they may not necessarily be your favourite.
The fun in learning about wine is in the tasting and trying different types do just that, try different wines ask the waiters in restaurants what they recommend and remember the good and forget the bad.
It's great fun learning.
For practice before you go select several varieties from your local supplier and try them out.
If you cant remember them, then perhaps you had too much...lol
Good suggestion Klondike, get your friends around, but from experience my friends would drink anything I gave them so beware.
Good luck
Jan 12th, 2004, 07:12 AM
#59
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Ira,
Good point, I haven't experienced many bad corks either although I have found more than you. Perhaps, I drink a little too much.
Question, where did you find a wine merchant who would refund a bottle 10 - 15 years after you purchased it? Do you save your receipts? Do they refund what you paid for it or what it would cost to replace it today?
I realize that foresaking corks will mean a sacrifice of style when opening the bottle at table with a bottle opener or turn of the cap but the knowledge that the wine inside will be as good as it could be, all variables considered, makes it worthwhile.
If you want an example from personally observable experience that air does not penetrate the cork and affect aging, consider a bottle of sparkling wine. Through the initial fermentation, these bottles are sealed with pop bottle type caps (in USA) and only sealed with corks when shipped. The positive pressure within the bottle prevents air from getting in no matter how good the cork; yet, the wine inside still matures.
To see how this is true, buy a couple of bottles of Dom Perignon. Drink one now and make extensive tasting notes. Lay one down in your wine cellar for ten years, then open and enjoy and compare with your tastings notes. See? The cork really doesn't impact the quality of the wine; it's time that does that.
Good point, I haven't experienced many bad corks either although I have found more than you. Perhaps, I drink a little too much.
Question, where did you find a wine merchant who would refund a bottle 10 - 15 years after you purchased it? Do you save your receipts? Do they refund what you paid for it or what it would cost to replace it today?
I realize that foresaking corks will mean a sacrifice of style when opening the bottle at table with a bottle opener or turn of the cap but the knowledge that the wine inside will be as good as it could be, all variables considered, makes it worthwhile.
If you want an example from personally observable experience that air does not penetrate the cork and affect aging, consider a bottle of sparkling wine. Through the initial fermentation, these bottles are sealed with pop bottle type caps (in USA) and only sealed with corks when shipped. The positive pressure within the bottle prevents air from getting in no matter how good the cork; yet, the wine inside still matures.
To see how this is true, buy a couple of bottles of Dom Perignon. Drink one now and make extensive tasting notes. Lay one down in your wine cellar for ten years, then open and enjoy and compare with your tastings notes. See? The cork really doesn't impact the quality of the wine; it's time that does that.
Jan 13th, 2004, 02:01 PM
#60
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"I hope you're pretty"
Very funny, NYCFS. Thank you for the Pallagrello suggestion. I googled it and Italian Wine Merchants came up at the top. I called and had them put aside the "Le Ortole" version, especially after hearing its description. I took a bottle to a dinner party last evening and you were the "buzz." I should say you and the Pallagrello. What a beautiful drinking experience. Everyone raved and wanted to know how I had heard about it. Fodors really can be a great place. Mille grazie e buon anno!
Very funny, NYCFS. Thank you for the Pallagrello suggestion. I googled it and Italian Wine Merchants came up at the top. I called and had them put aside the "Le Ortole" version, especially after hearing its description. I took a bottle to a dinner party last evening and you were the "buzz." I should say you and the Pallagrello. What a beautiful drinking experience. Everyone raved and wanted to know how I had heard about it. Fodors really can be a great place. Mille grazie e buon anno!
