In a previous wonderful message about food in Italy, the poster mentioned tipping in Italy and how until recently, it wasn't done. Do I assume that if it is not included on the bill, I don't tip? I can't remember what I have done in other European cities.

This subject has been covered ad nauseum in previous threads, with opinion varying. It may depend on the level of restaurant, but the prevailing thought seems to be that if it's already included in the bill you do not have to tip, but always can for rhapsodius service. It should clearly state how much is added - oft 15%. If it's NOT included in the bill yes you tip but the rare resto will not include it. I've been to resaurants with many Europeans and never seen any tip, above the the 'service' charge already included. In fact when i try to leave a few coins i've often been upbraided. Some folks like to throw their money around though and it they have i have no problems with that. Some waiters it seem may 'work' tourists for tips.

Fodors has a section devoted to the subject:

http://fodors.com/features/nfdisplay...stt_tg_toc.cfm

BTW, the menu posted outside will tell you if service is included.

The little 2-room elementary school I went to when a young lad had no indoor plumbing, only the outhouses - one for the boys and one for the girls. Every so often, a group of us mischievous boys would tip over the girls outhouse ...sometimes with a girl inside. After having gotten into a lot of trouble, I stopped tipping.

However, I do leave a gratuity, even in Italy, but not as much as I do in the USA.

--Marv

js smith - thanks for the link

infotrack - so you're the one!

On a recent visit to Italy, the waiter at a Piazza Navona restaurant was quite late with my wife's entre. Part of the problem was our fault as we weren't clear what course that the entre was to be served.

The waiter apologized sincerely and eventually brought out the entre, albeit late. He then brought out 2 limoncello shots, on the house.

The entire experience was a lesson in Italian dining, and I left the waiter a decent tip. The waiter insisted that he didn't deserve a tip, and asked me to take it back. I couldn't take it back, and I probably didn't explain well enough that I was tipping him for the effort and for a good dining experience, even though a mistake was made.