A couple of questions about tipping... <BR> <BR>I've read most restaurants, cafes, etc. include a 15% service charge on the bill, and only a small tip of perhaps 1% or 2% is necessary. Is this true? <BR> <BR>Also, our hotel includes breakfast. Is a smal tip customary under that situation, perhaps 2FF per person/per day (there's five of us)? Perhaps just at the end of the stay? <BR> <BR>Thanks in advance.

Karen <BR>Everyone feels differently about this. <BR>Regarding the hotel breakfast, I would <BR>give the servers something at the end of the stay. Think what you ould be appropriate at home in your own currency, and just translate it into francs. Depends on how long you're staying at the hotel of course, and if they just direct you to a buffet, or actually serve you. I would perhaps consider 40F from your group per day, depending on the hotel, and on the servers and what they do for you. You could also of course choose not to tip them at all, they are used to that. <BR>Ditto the restaurant issue. In a simple place, you can leave nothing at all. <BR>It is customary to leave a few coins at a moderate place if the service has been good. A few coins, perhaps the equivalent of less than $1. You will find that many French diners do choose to leave nothing at all. I only worry about calculating something if it is a fine restaurant or if the service has been extraordinary; otherwise I just leave a little spare change.

Karen: My thoughts are mixed. If I am having coffee in a cafe and not much else, I never tip. Generally, if I am in a restaurant and having lunch, I may tip a few francs but never over a couple percent. Dinner we may lean toward 5% extra. <BR> <BR>The guiding principal is how much you utilize the waiter. Yes, he receives 15% off the bat but with 5 people ordering in waves, you may feel like leaving a bit more. Big tipping generally frowned upon. <BR> <BR>I also have found that since waiters are guaranteed 15% and know they will receive little more, there is little incentive to bend over backward. I find dining a frustrating experience sometimes. Be patient, the French have their own timetable for service and eating and your efforts to "speed" things up may result in a bit longer time table. The French are a subtle folk!!

I don't agree with tipping at the end of the stay. I find tipping a nominal amount..especially on day when you first arrive usually reaps better dividends for the whole visit. It also prevents the servers, housekeepers and others who may work the first portion of your trip from getting left out. Let's not fool ourselves. Most hotel people confide that very few people actually tip anyway. NOTE: I found lovely service while in Paris. The waiters we kind to non-French speakers. Rememember that being a waiter is a respected and decently paid job. You want find very many teenagers or college students serving you meals in Paris. Happy trails.

I'm shocked at the previous responses to this posting. We lived in France for a number of years, travelled often with French on business and never ever saw anyone, not one time, tip. The 15% on the tab covers it. Every waiter knows it and expects no more. Want to say to the world that you are culturally illiterate? Leave a tip.

Ask any waiter in Paris if "tip" is included and they will say no. It isn't, but a 15% service charge is included. What is that service charge? It is an amount that goes to the restaurant --perhaps to help pay the servers a decent wage unlike in the States, but it is not considered a tip, and it does not go to the waiter as a percent of the bill. The waiter will make no more from a $400 bill at a table than he will from a $50 bill. The tip is a kind and generous way to reward someone who has taken extra time to smile, make me feel welcome, and put up with indecisions and inability to read much of the menu. It is unfortunate that someone would feel that rewarding such service makes me "culturally illiterate". And you are wrong to think that most waiters at regular restaurants in Paris don't expect something extra from foreigners, especially Americans. They do. Take the time to get to know some of them and you will find that I am right. I know many people in the US who will not tip more than 10% here because that is the way it was 20 years or so ago. Things have changed, and they have changed in Europe as well.

Of course waiters "expect" something from Americans, because many Americans are ignorant of the customs there. The service charge is the tip, and if your waiter makes "mistakes" with his addition on your bill too, (as is often the case)you are really being taken advantage of. Many European service personnel consider Americans to be rich and naive, and will take advantage of what they see as golden opportunties. <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR>

To Pam: You must be a delight to travel with. Everyone is out to get you. We agree with Patrick. Good service should be rewarded whether you are in New York, Paris, or the south pole. Maybe the reason so many people find waiters in Paris and France to be "rude" and unfair is that they approach them with an attitude like Pam's -- they don't deserve anything for doing their job and they are probably out to take advantage of us poor Americans anyway. Maybe if you greeted the waiter with a smile instead of a chip on your shoulder they would treat you much nicer. We have never been treated badly by a Parisian waiter, and although we have always checked the bill carefully we have never seen a mistake in addition --and we travel extensively in Paris both on business and for pleasure. By the way, all our Parisian business associates tip when they take us to nice restaurants in Paris. <BR>

Pam is not wrong. Waiters in France (and many other European countries) do not expect a tip. Of course they have no objection to being given one. Who has? But they are adequately paid and the 15% which has already been automatically added to your bill, covers this. Quite frankly,Europeans dislike Americans who leave huge tips. It makes it difficult for them to "compete". It is customary in Europe in bars and cafes to leave "the dust". That is, round up to the nearest whole number. In a restaurant, a SMALL tip is appreciated but never expected. A smile and a word of thanks are also welcome. No American should feel that they have to leave a large tip.

Mary <BR>QUITE FRANKLY, Europeans have no need nor desire to "compete" with Americans as you so patronisingly put it. What a strange thing to say! Anyone should be kind enough to tip good service,doesn't have to be a large tip as long as it isn't so small that its seen as an insult. Many are students paying their way through college and tips really bump up their wages, common in all countries of the world. <BR>Amy

I suppose we all carry a bit of our home habits with us when we travel. I wonder how many Europeans who seem offended by the idea of tipping come to the states and bring their custom with them. Do they study current US customs and follow the trend of Americans leaving a minimum of 15% to an average of 20% at good restaurants in the US, or do they "stiff" the waiter because they are used to doing that at home? From talking with many waiters in our tourist town in Florida, more than half of the Europeans visiting here leave nothing for the waiter or just a few coins.

For what it's worth, no Patrick, when I come to America, I don't "stiff" the waiters, because I did my research and found out that it was customary in the States to tip 20% on the basis that tips are a large part of the take-home pay of waiting staff. So I tip 20%. <BR>Personally, I think tipping is degrading. It smacks of the old upstairs/downstairs divide. People should be paid a decent wage for what they do and they shouldn't have to rely on the whims of others to take home a proper wage. The point I am making, is that waiters in Europe are not mainly students Amy. The tip is not a substantial part of their salary. They consider themselves professional in the job they do, just like teachers or plumbers. (Did you tip the airhostess as you got off the plane? No? Why not? Because it's not the custom?) I have seen Americans give tips of such ridiculous size that I sometimes wonder if you think our money is toy money. By all means give tips of this size if it makes you feel better, but the point of this post was for Karen who wondered HOW MUCH WAS NECESSARY. Karen shouldn't feel obliged to spend all her holiday money on tips if she doesn't want to. <BR>To return to the point Patrick brought up of National habits. You are quite happy to tip waiters, bellhops etc, but do you tip the usher in a theatre or cinema? Do you tip the guide who showed you around the museum? Well that's the custom in France. In Spain, it's customary to tip the petrol attendant who fills your car with gas. I could go on. Different countries have different ways of doing things. As they say, when in Rome .......... or Paris...or Berlin ... or Madrid.

Mary, <BR> <BR>How much do you tip the museum guides in Paris? How much to tour guides (for an all day bus tour?) <BR> <BR>Thanks, <BR> <BR>Kathryn

Mary <BR>It's easy to say that people deserve a decent wage and shouldn't rely on the whim of others.If only that were so, unfortunately in reality this doesn't quite happen. If I can afford to tip 15% then I will if I have had good service in cafes/restaurants anywhere where I have sat and enjoyed a drink or food, it's not a whim but an acknowledgement of good service and an appreciation that they could use the extra money. As part of my work I sometimes recieve chocolates ect as a sign of appreciation. I am not insulted by this but see it as a compliment for a job well done. Unfortunately not giving tips will not encourage employers to pay a decent wage. In my experience a small tip such as 1% is given by people as a sign of bad service, they show the waiter they know they should tip but in tipping a tiny amount show their displeasure at the service. <BR>Angela

A lot of people don't understand the difference in wage laws, salaries and benefits in the US vs France, and that's the problem. First, a tip is a service charge, that is exactly what it is by definition, these are not two diff. things. It is just in the US due to more conservative, capitalistic govt, we do not have very generous mandated govt benefits or good minimum wage laws; thus, restaurant owners are legally allowed to pay less than min. wage to waiters under the guise that tips will make up the difference to the legal minimum (how much they are allowed to pay below min. wage is determined by local law, I think, often it can be about half, I believe); if a waiter does NOT make at least min wage combining restaurant wages plus tip, the employer by law must pay them the difference. In fact, the min. wage in France is about 20 pct higher than in the US to begin with, so they are already getting the same or better than min wage plus tip in the US. It is just that France does not leave it to the whims of customers. Logically, it is better to have it paid in wages than tips, as it would be easier to tax accurately, one big flaw in the US system (I don't know where the US restaurant tipping system started, but it advantages the restaurant owners, and the staff who can cheat on taxes more easily). Furthermore, French employees get five weeks paid vacation, more holidays than I think we do in the US, plus national health insurance, etc. In the US, employers are not legally required to give employees any benefits, not a single one that I can think of; they are legally not even required to give them holidays.

Karen, <BR> <BR>10 FF is fine for guides or usherettes.