greyhaze

I'm sure this topic has been discussed before, but I am new to the board and would like your input. How much do you tip when you're there? I know most places add the 15% VAT on the bill and I usually leave 10% on top of that. At bars I give about 1 euro per round. In the states I usually leave 30-50%. I know this is a little high for some, but I work in the service industry and feel you must give to receive. My 10% tipping philosophy has received mixed reviews over the years, from genuine thankfulness to complete indifference. What are your tipping philosophies while in Europe? Am I tipping too much or too little? My travels are primarily through the Benelux countries and I don't want to look like a cheapskate.

Michael

My French friends leave no tip in restaurants and in France I act as they do. In Hungary the waiters let me know as they presented the bill that the service was not included. So tipping may vary from country to country.

Michael

Look at this post:

http://www.fodors.com/features/nfdis...124_stt_tg_toc

GSteed

Are you going to return to this restaurant or bar? To ensure great bar service; tip when you pay for first round. A savvy barman will note this and do all he can to give you premium service. Next question. Why a percentage of the bill? Why not a fixed fee?

nona1

It does vary from country to country so you need to look at what is right for where you are.
In the UK 10% is standard and we do not tip AT ALL in bars.

ira

Hi grey,

>I know most places add the 15% VAT on the bill ...<

That is the Service Charge.
The VAT is another fee - about 15%.

It is usual to just round up ( e.g. bill is 28E leave 30E) for good service.

nibblette

The VAT is not the same thing as service charge. The VAT is a tax that the restuarant pays to the government.

Often times, but not always, the menu will indicate whether or not the service charge is included. Sometimes, the service charge is also listed on the bill.

If you ask the waiter, ask if service charge is included. Don't ask if tip is included. They will almost always say no to tip included.

I just follow the country's tipping customs. 10% UK if service not included. Round up in Italy to next 5/0 (if 47 euro, we leave 50). Nothing in France. Can't help you with Benelux as haven't been there in a while.

rex

<<The VAT is a tax that the restuarant pays to the government.>>

Semantic pedantry, perhaps... but I believe that the <i>customer</i> <u>pays</u> the tax to the government; the restaurant acts as the uncompensated agent of the government, doing its collections and accounting work for free, as an added &quot;tax&quot; for the privilege of being in business.

Worth remembering... just how ubiquitously government has its hands in the pocket of commerce, on both sides of the transaction... everywhere you look.

But on another note... my creative writing exercise for the day...

I can't help but roll my eyes at the notion of <i>greyhaze</i> leaving a $5.00 tip for a $10 glass of pinot at the bar. Talk about &quot;Sideways&quot;!

Let's see... the guy who invested the capital, tended the vines, and saw that the grapes grew... got about 5 cents. The grape picker got another 2 cents. The vintner got 10. The various suppliers who sell to the winemaker... the bottles, the corks, the labels and the boxes the wine ships in... got about 8 cents.

We're up to 25 cents. The salaries and benefits to all these people, plus the accounting department, lawyers and other overhead expense of winemaking brings it up to about 40 cents. Now taxes bring it up to about $3.00

Shippers and distributors... to get it to the bar add another 30%. The bar owner has utility bills, advertising expenses and rent on the building bringing the cost up to about %6.50 before he adds on his profit margin of $3.00 to arrive at the retail price of $9.50

Sales tax adds another 50 cents, but <i>greyhaze</i> rounds that into his &quot;tip&quot; calculation and adds on the biggest element in the entire tranaction... a fiver since the bartender is a &quot;lowly cog&quot; in the giant &quot;service industry&quot; machine.

The bartender works nights, trying to put himself through school to become an English teacher... because his mother gets 2 cents for picking grapes... and he wants a better life for the children in his neighborhood.

But the money tending bar is too good.

He never finishes his degree.

Somebody else can be an English teacher, I guess.

Best wishes,

Rex

Tulips

Greyhaze; in the Benelux countries you will not see service charge added to the bill, but it is included in the prices. In a restaurant, you would round up, say, leave 30 if the bill is for 28. Generally, for good service I would leave 5% extra. If you order a beer in a bar, you would not normally tip.

MyriamC

As said by Tulips: we don't tip, we just round up. I know from US friends that they feel uncomfortable when they don't tip. You should know though, that waiters get a normal salary here (in Belgium, that is) and don't have to live on tips.

lyb

I just returned from Belgium &amp; Amsterdam and was a little confused about the tipping situation. In France, I knew that it was included, so that was fine, but in Belgium &amp; Amsterdam, I wasn't sure. Then as the waiters/waitresses gave me change, I started to realize that a tip was not expected because if the change came to 5 euros, they gave me a 5 Euro bill. Any waiter in the U.S., would give you back 5 separate dollar bill in hope/expectation of getting a tip. When I didn't get change back in a manner that I could leave part of it as a tip, I wouldn't leave a tip, but if I did get change in such a way that I could give a tip, I then would. I felt bad when I didn't leave a tip, since I have a niece who is in the service industry and know how much she enjoys all the tips that she makes.

greyhaze

I appreciate the serious responses. Apologies for refering to the service added fee as the VAT. I understand the difference. Rex, I do appreciate your economic breakdowm of a grape from the soil to the glass, but I drink beer. As far as &quot;dropping a fiver on the lowly cog&quot; barkeep goes, you must have missed the part where I said that I work in the service industry (in large part for tips). I worked my way through college and earned my degree working for tips and continue to work and support myself in that industry. I take offense to being refered to as a &quot;lowly cog&quot;. I do not tip out of pity, but rather out of commraderie. I also earn enough money to be able to travel to Europe at least once a year. I feel that tipping has become a bit more expected in Europe over the past few years and I was looking for others input and experiences. I do agree with everything you wrote about government taxation. Please don't base your tips on the price at the bar in comparison to what the grape picker was paid. That's just an excuse for being cheap.

Travelnut

People who post on this forum come from both sides of the Atlantic. There are two different &quot;tipping&quot; cultures and wage-grades at work here. A European who visits the US should know that tips are expected and act accordingly. An American who visits Europe should know that tips are rarely expected and should act accordingly. Neither culture is wrong, cheap or lavish - adjustments should be made depending on the location and culture. Very simple.

greyhaze

Thank you, travelnut. This is what I was looking for. I know that tipping and wages are different between Europe and America and (as an American) was simply trying to find out what is the norm for Europeans. My comments about being cheap were directed at people I assume were American, but were inappropraite regardless. I apologize if I offended anyone.

MaureenB

When in Europe, I was aware of the tipping customs in each country, and tried to follow them. But, I wasn't aware that I should NOT include the tip on my Visa receipt when using a charge card. I should have left coins or paper money on the table, correct?
So, when I put the tip on the charge receipt, do you think the wait person actually received the tip? It bothers me that some people tell me the establishment would have kept the extra money, and not given it to the waiter. (We were in Austria, CZK, Germany, England, France and Netherland.)

Xenos

Sorry to have given the impression that I was a) cheap and b) American. I'm actually neither and I think Neil_Oz's name gives a clue that he's not American either. The other clue is that we both understand irony

ira

Hi MB,

&gt;So, when I put the tip on the charge receipt, do you think the wait person actually received the tip?&lt;

Sometimes.

IIRC the courts in Europe have held that a charge on a credit card goes to the owner of the establishment and can be used to pay the wages of the staff; money left on the table goes to the server, and may be pooled with the other staff.

MaureenB

Ira, you and I must be on-line at the same time now-- I just saw your response to my other post re: Schengen visa. Thanks for the help. Sorry to hear I probably over-paid the establishments! Live and learn...

Catbert

I can't see why greyhaze would want to ask for the post to be removed. He expressed his opinions and has every right to do so. In my experience, service workers are the best tippers. Because they are simpatico.

You wouldn't tip the car salesperson... the dealer does. It's called commission.

Sarah

Just remember if you are American, tipping well when we are abroad is one of the things that we do right.

I live in Manhattan and some of the instances I have observed from affluent foreigners who have not familiarized themselves with our tipping policy is appauling. Most recently I stepped into a cab in front of, I want to say the Penninsula hotel, but a similar hotel(50's madison) . The departing passenger, a woman (30's) who was carrying designer shopping bags from the selective area of Fifth avenue mid town was trying to give the cab driver a 25cent tip. I am not sure where she was from but she was obviously affluent in her dress and what she was carring and where she was staying. The cab driver insulted, tried to give it back and she insisted with a sweet smile that he take her quarter. She really had know idea it seemed that he was insulted. She had a magnanimous look on her face. I did not realise it was a quarter, I thought she over tipped at that moment. But this woman thought she was in some rural African nation or perhaps that is where the cab driver was headed after her drop off LOl. I have had a million conversations with cabbies since this experience and they all tell me this is nothing unusual, particularly when dealing with European travelers.

Too make a long story short, of course don't tip what is not necessary and I know that was the point of your post. I would just caution you not to fall into the trap of tipping what you can get away with.

This response is not just for you grey haze. I wanted to just relay this experience for anyone else popping on.