Tipping: Attn Siobhan... or anyone who can help
Oct 24th, 2004, 04:01 PM
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Tipping: Attn Siobhan... or anyone who can help
I think this has been answered before by Siobhan, but I did a search and can't find it. I'm staying at all all inclusive (Abbeyglen). What, if anything, should I tip for dinner? They say tips are included, but I feel funny not leaving anything for the waitstaff. When responding, please specify if your answer if per person, or for two. Thank very very much.
Oct 24th, 2004, 04:05 PM
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If service is included, there is no need to tip extra unless you want to reward really exceptional service.
if the wait staff does something special or are especially good, you can add a few coins.
if the wait staff does something special or are especially good, you can add a few coins.
Oct 25th, 2004, 07:03 AM
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Hi holl,
>..I feel funny not leaving anything for the waitstaff.<
The service charges are included. They staff is paid.
If you wish to leave a small tip for exceptional service, that is up to you.
>..I feel funny not leaving anything for the waitstaff.<
The service charges are included. They staff is paid.
If you wish to leave a small tip for exceptional service, that is up to you.
Oct 25th, 2004, 04:21 PM
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I have been in Pubs (at the bar) where the Barmaid wouldn't accept a tip. She just kept pushing it back to me.
I rarely dine out evenings (except for 'pub grub'): you don't tip there, either.
'Carvery' lunches are my main meal of the day and one normally doesn't tip at one of those.
So, take a 'free ride;' and enjoy it!
I rarely dine out evenings (except for 'pub grub'): you don't tip there, either.
'Carvery' lunches are my main meal of the day and one normally doesn't tip at one of those.
So, take a 'free ride;' and enjoy it!
Dec 10th, 2004, 12:47 PM
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No offense to TripleSecDelay, but I humbly suggest that following your brain would be a better idea in these situations. "Following your heart" might mean carrying over American assumptions which don't apply in other countries where waitstaff etc are paid a living wage and don't rely on your tips to pay the rent. I have the impression that Americans often feel uncomfortable and "cheap" in not automatically tipping - but in many parts of the world you need to get over that. I, on the other hand, coming from a country where tipping is the exception and not the rule, felt uncomfortable tipping in the US - I felt that was I was somehow helping to strip someone of their human dignity. I had to get over that, of course.
Dec 10th, 2004, 03:19 PM
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Anita, if you knew Neil better you would know he has a BIG heart. He is just trying to share customs around the world. Not everything is like it is in the US. That is why when traveling it is good to know what other countries customs and expectations are.
Happy travels to everyone!
Happy travels to everyone!
Dec 10th, 2004, 03:42 PM
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Foul!! I call Foul!! No fair having a verbal battle over my comments w/o me here.
You guys are all right.
What I meant in my first post here was to let yourself be your guide. Whether it is your heart, your brain, whatever organ you see fit for guidance. The point is that if a person wishes to express their gratitude through gratuity, then so be it. A person would buy them a gift if their tastes were known and if the person had more time. Instead, the end result is an increase of income. Not a bad thing.
Note to Neil: Not sure why you used the words "American" and "Americans".
You guys are all right.
What I meant in my first post here was to let yourself be your guide. Whether it is your heart, your brain, whatever organ you see fit for guidance. The point is that if a person wishes to express their gratitude through gratuity, then so be it. A person would buy them a gift if their tastes were known and if the person had more time. Instead, the end result is an increase of income. Not a bad thing.
Note to Neil: Not sure why you used the words "American" and "Americans".
Dec 13th, 2004, 01:59 AM
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Hi Holldoll,
You know I stay there once in a while and take the dinner included package. I leave a little something for the server. This is just my preference as a former worker in the catering industry. I feel its a tip for the wine service/drinks. I leave coins or a fiver and no more. I usually do this in the Abbeyglen as the service is great and the staff is so friendly and nice....this is coming from a jaded person who hates about phoney happy waitstaff.
If everything is included in most places I leave some change for the wait staff. I always used my change for taxi's home or small items and it was always a help and appreciated when I was a starving waitress many years ago.
You know I stay there once in a while and take the dinner included package. I leave a little something for the server. This is just my preference as a former worker in the catering industry. I feel its a tip for the wine service/drinks. I leave coins or a fiver and no more. I usually do this in the Abbeyglen as the service is great and the staff is so friendly and nice....this is coming from a jaded person who hates about phoney happy waitstaff.
If everything is included in most places I leave some change for the wait staff. I always used my change for taxi's home or small items and it was always a help and appreciated when I was a starving waitress many years ago.
Dec 13th, 2004, 03:50 AM
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I think that there is a basic difference in tipping between the US and Europe.
In some places tipping is regarded as a bit demeaning and is not expected.
In others, it is a gesture of thanks for outstanding service and is on top of the salary.
In the US, you are actually paying for the service in the way that you would pay somebody for repairing your car or cleaning your windows. If the standard "charge" for the person's services is e.g. 15% of the bill, then giving less would be rather like underpaying the window cleaner.
It would help us Europeans if this were actually spelled out somewhere on the menu. Of course American restaurants could give their staff a living wage....
In some places tipping is regarded as a bit demeaning and is not expected.
In others, it is a gesture of thanks for outstanding service and is on top of the salary.
In the US, you are actually paying for the service in the way that you would pay somebody for repairing your car or cleaning your windows. If the standard "charge" for the person's services is e.g. 15% of the bill, then giving less would be rather like underpaying the window cleaner.
It would help us Europeans if this were actually spelled out somewhere on the menu. Of course American restaurants could give their staff a living wage....
Dec 13th, 2004, 10:40 AM
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Tipping is indeed different in the States and many people seem to find it an extra expense for phoney happy waitstaff. Given my choice of the two extremes, I would choose that over the honest, pissed off waitstaff, but for the most part, waitstaff seem to be somewhere in between.
If indeed restaurants raised their pay scale to a "living wage" then we must realize that the menu prices would rise. Labor is a major part of business cost, but lessened in the restaurant industry because of tipping. I look at tipping as a good thing. Many companies give performance bonuses to strong employees. I look at tipping as an opportunity to be directly involved in that. 15% is the standard and if the service is somewhere around average, I will tip that much. If it is poor, I will tip less. If it is exceptional, I will tip more. I generally probably average more than 15% because I tend not to return to places where the service is poor. If restaurants just raised their prices 15% to give that raise, by guess is that the quality of service would drop somewhat and we would be paying the same amount to get lesser service.
It's just the way we do it in the States. I think that generally, restaurant service in the States is pretty good, or at least attentive. It would probably see a decline if tipping went away.
Bill
If indeed restaurants raised their pay scale to a "living wage" then we must realize that the menu prices would rise. Labor is a major part of business cost, but lessened in the restaurant industry because of tipping. I look at tipping as a good thing. Many companies give performance bonuses to strong employees. I look at tipping as an opportunity to be directly involved in that. 15% is the standard and if the service is somewhere around average, I will tip that much. If it is poor, I will tip less. If it is exceptional, I will tip more. I generally probably average more than 15% because I tend not to return to places where the service is poor. If restaurants just raised their prices 15% to give that raise, by guess is that the quality of service would drop somewhat and we would be paying the same amount to get lesser service.
It's just the way we do it in the States. I think that generally, restaurant service in the States is pretty good, or at least attentive. It would probably see a decline if tipping went away.
Bill
Dec 13th, 2004, 11:18 AM
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I once took a Danish culture/language course, and the teacher told me that tipping was NOT expected nor wanted. The reasoning was that, if the wait staff were to be seen accepting tips, their wages would thus be lowered by the management. This would be, of course, detrimental to their 'living wage'.
Take the advice of those who say tip with the brain. When in Rome...
Take the advice of those who say tip with the brain. When in Rome...
Dec 13th, 2004, 11:24 AM
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I think one of the reasons that Americans feel forced to tip and Europeans don't is that in Europe the "Service Charge" is included and a "tip" is something extra.
In the US, the "tip" *is* the "Service Charge" and we feel obligated to pay it.
In the US, the "tip" *is* the "Service Charge" and we feel obligated to pay it.
Dec 13th, 2004, 12:14 PM
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TripleSecDelay, the reason I referred to Americans has been pretty well covered by miss_prism. Feeling "funny" about not tipping waitstaff is an issue for Americans more than most other people.
LoveItaly, I really appreciate your comments, but I should tell you that my stomach is bigger than my heart. Maybe that should be the guiding organ?
Bill, service might or might not fall off if staff were paid a living wage, but my point was not to criticise American habits - Americans are entitled to run things any way that suits them.
IMO visitors to the US should of course "do in Rome" and tip the customary 15%, or more if they feel so inclined. My point was that for their part, Americans should reciprocate and avoid introducing American tipping habits into countries which don't need them and which arguably will be better off without them.
You may be right, service in American eateries might fall off if the pay system changed, but that probably hasn't been tested, and I wonder. If everyone expects 15% as of right, if anyone who doesn't tip at least that much is treated as a curmudgeonly tightwad, where's the performance bonus? Having administered performance-based pay systems and seen them deliver as many undesirable as desirable behaviours, I can't help being a doubter.
That aside, the idea that good service can only be delivered under a remuneration-by-tip system must at best be an American perspective, unless you believe that American service is clearly superior to that in countries where staff are paid a wage. Respectfully, while I've encountered many examples of good (if to my taste rather too fast) service in the US, I'm not convinced of that either. A visit to (say) Australia, New Zealand or Japan might raise doubts on that score.
LoveItaly, I really appreciate your comments, but I should tell you that my stomach is bigger than my heart. Maybe that should be the guiding organ?
Bill, service might or might not fall off if staff were paid a living wage, but my point was not to criticise American habits - Americans are entitled to run things any way that suits them.
IMO visitors to the US should of course "do in Rome" and tip the customary 15%, or more if they feel so inclined. My point was that for their part, Americans should reciprocate and avoid introducing American tipping habits into countries which don't need them and which arguably will be better off without them.
You may be right, service in American eateries might fall off if the pay system changed, but that probably hasn't been tested, and I wonder. If everyone expects 15% as of right, if anyone who doesn't tip at least that much is treated as a curmudgeonly tightwad, where's the performance bonus? Having administered performance-based pay systems and seen them deliver as many undesirable as desirable behaviours, I can't help being a doubter.
That aside, the idea that good service can only be delivered under a remuneration-by-tip system must at best be an American perspective, unless you believe that American service is clearly superior to that in countries where staff are paid a wage. Respectfully, while I've encountered many examples of good (if to my taste rather too fast) service in the US, I'm not convinced of that either. A visit to (say) Australia, New Zealand or Japan might raise doubts on that score.
Dec 14th, 2004, 12:44 AM
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OK for Ireland this is the tipping culture:
Taxi none or mayb 1-2 euro for a long trip. i.e. 20-30 euro trip. I never tip taxis in the city centre other thn leave the small change from a 10 or 5 euro note. This is NORMAL. If they are looking for a tip they are messing you about and do not give one to any taxi that asks. If they do they are taling advantacge of you as a tourist. I only heard of this happening once so do not worry.
Restaurants - service is NOT included and the norm is 10-15%. If you are a larger party they will add the tip and state it on the receipt i.e. 6 or more people. Only some very upmarket places add service. If you are unhappy with the service demonstrate with your tip.
A General rule for food servers that if you think you are telling them they are awful by not tipping yo are NOT. They will just think you are a cheapskate. To get your point across leave a smaller tip. They will get it trust me!
You do not tip in Cafe's or coffe shops unless its a bit of change. Many places have a small tip jar in a sandwich whop so you can add to that.
I have never heard of cleaners being tipped in Ireland as I know is the case in the U.S.
Barmen never get tipped. They do not expect it and if they do once again it is unprofessional in my opinion to be "looking" for it. If it happens fine but they should not be chasing tips.
In general Dinner is where the tip spent not all the small things that they do in the U.S.
Taxi none or mayb 1-2 euro for a long trip. i.e. 20-30 euro trip. I never tip taxis in the city centre other thn leave the small change from a 10 or 5 euro note. This is NORMAL. If they are looking for a tip they are messing you about and do not give one to any taxi that asks. If they do they are taling advantacge of you as a tourist. I only heard of this happening once so do not worry.
Restaurants - service is NOT included and the norm is 10-15%. If you are a larger party they will add the tip and state it on the receipt i.e. 6 or more people. Only some very upmarket places add service. If you are unhappy with the service demonstrate with your tip.
A General rule for food servers that if you think you are telling them they are awful by not tipping yo are NOT. They will just think you are a cheapskate. To get your point across leave a smaller tip. They will get it trust me!
You do not tip in Cafe's or coffe shops unless its a bit of change. Many places have a small tip jar in a sandwich whop so you can add to that.
I have never heard of cleaners being tipped in Ireland as I know is the case in the U.S.
Barmen never get tipped. They do not expect it and if they do once again it is unprofessional in my opinion to be "looking" for it. If it happens fine but they should not be chasing tips.
In general Dinner is where the tip spent not all the small things that they do in the U.S.
Dec 14th, 2004, 07:06 AM
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Hi Neil:
I'm actually in agreement with you. When in Rome .....
On the other hand, I'm pretty sure that most people don't tip until AFTER they have had their meal. The term tip (or actually TIPS) is an acronym: To Insure Prompt Service. If you are not getting the prompt service, you shouldn't pay for it. I don't really care if someone who gives me terrible (and actually, it has to be pretty bad for me to go below 15%) service thinks I'm cheap. If they don't care about keeping me as a customer, I don't care much about what they think of me. They will certainly never see me again.
Will tipping them less improve their service? That's doubtful. If everyone tips poor wait staff less though, they won't be able to survive in those positions and hopefully move on to something that they are more suited to, preferably without much human contact. I'm not paying people to be happy, I'm paying them to do a good job and usually that requires being pleasant.
I'm not suggesting that good service and a good attitude can only be delivered in a remuneration by tip method, but it certainly helps. When I show up to work everyday, I feel that part of my job is to leave the troubles at the doorstep and walk through the door with a pleasant attitude. Although I don't get tips for that, I'm pretty sure that it eventually shows up in my pay check, in one way or another. Am I being insincere? I don't think so. Every once in a while there are days that are harder to keep a smile on the face, but those days pass.
Good service is NOT about speed (despite the acronym). It is also not about constantly being in your face asking how things are and convincing you to have some chicken wings with that order. It's about being available when you are need. I wouldn't suggest that American service is better than others, though in my very limited experience, it may be more consistent across price ranges of restaurants. I tremble at the thought of making such a rash generalization, so I will stop at that. Still, the worst cross section of service I have ever seen seems to be London bar tenders. They don't get tips and as a group, have been the least pleasant people I have seen in the industry. I've hit a pretty good number of pubs in London and they just don't seem to want me there. Maybe it's me. Perhaps I inspire rudeness in others, especially London bartenders.
In the end, most people like to work with others that have a pleasant attitude and because of that, end up being more productive. I work in an industry where productivity is very carefully measured and it is amazing how it has gone up as working conditions have improved and the attitude around the buildings has improved with it. This can not be (and isn’t) a coincidence.
Again, restaurants would certainly increase their prices to cover the cost of increasing the wage to a flat scale. The increase would probably be, oh say, ummm, 15%. I would rather make that choice myself. This is certainly just my opinion and if American restaurants want to go the other way and ask that patrons quit tipping, they can do that. Then again, there was recently a story on one of our evening news shows speaking to the question of tipping and the ever increasing presence of tip jars at places like Starbucks where they are supposedly paid a living wage and offered reasonably good benefits for part time help. The benefits thing is, by the way, VERY rare in the States. This is a debate that has no answer and I’m fairly certain that the notion of tip free restaurants will not be tested in my life time.
Oh, the definition of a living wage could probably be debated also. Some in the States seem to think that it means they are entitled to a motor vehicle with off road capabilities that they will never consider using (it might scratch the finish), a TV with a screen as large as any wall in their house .... but I digress.
I'm actually in agreement with you. When in Rome .....
On the other hand, I'm pretty sure that most people don't tip until AFTER they have had their meal. The term tip (or actually TIPS) is an acronym: To Insure Prompt Service. If you are not getting the prompt service, you shouldn't pay for it. I don't really care if someone who gives me terrible (and actually, it has to be pretty bad for me to go below 15%) service thinks I'm cheap. If they don't care about keeping me as a customer, I don't care much about what they think of me. They will certainly never see me again.
Will tipping them less improve their service? That's doubtful. If everyone tips poor wait staff less though, they won't be able to survive in those positions and hopefully move on to something that they are more suited to, preferably without much human contact. I'm not paying people to be happy, I'm paying them to do a good job and usually that requires being pleasant.
I'm not suggesting that good service and a good attitude can only be delivered in a remuneration by tip method, but it certainly helps. When I show up to work everyday, I feel that part of my job is to leave the troubles at the doorstep and walk through the door with a pleasant attitude. Although I don't get tips for that, I'm pretty sure that it eventually shows up in my pay check, in one way or another. Am I being insincere? I don't think so. Every once in a while there are days that are harder to keep a smile on the face, but those days pass.
Good service is NOT about speed (despite the acronym). It is also not about constantly being in your face asking how things are and convincing you to have some chicken wings with that order. It's about being available when you are need. I wouldn't suggest that American service is better than others, though in my very limited experience, it may be more consistent across price ranges of restaurants. I tremble at the thought of making such a rash generalization, so I will stop at that. Still, the worst cross section of service I have ever seen seems to be London bar tenders. They don't get tips and as a group, have been the least pleasant people I have seen in the industry. I've hit a pretty good number of pubs in London and they just don't seem to want me there. Maybe it's me. Perhaps I inspire rudeness in others, especially London bartenders.
In the end, most people like to work with others that have a pleasant attitude and because of that, end up being more productive. I work in an industry where productivity is very carefully measured and it is amazing how it has gone up as working conditions have improved and the attitude around the buildings has improved with it. This can not be (and isn’t) a coincidence.
Again, restaurants would certainly increase their prices to cover the cost of increasing the wage to a flat scale. The increase would probably be, oh say, ummm, 15%. I would rather make that choice myself. This is certainly just my opinion and if American restaurants want to go the other way and ask that patrons quit tipping, they can do that. Then again, there was recently a story on one of our evening news shows speaking to the question of tipping and the ever increasing presence of tip jars at places like Starbucks where they are supposedly paid a living wage and offered reasonably good benefits for part time help. The benefits thing is, by the way, VERY rare in the States. This is a debate that has no answer and I’m fairly certain that the notion of tip free restaurants will not be tested in my life time.
Oh, the definition of a living wage could probably be debated also. Some in the States seem to think that it means they are entitled to a motor vehicle with off road capabilities that they will never consider using (it might scratch the finish), a TV with a screen as large as any wall in their house .... but I digress.
