NeoPatrick - I think you're misunderstanding what's going on here. It's not that people would be insulted or mortally offended by being tipped - you're absolutely right, of course they wouldn't, it'd be seen as a windfall.

What people don't accept is the refusal of visitors to accept local customs: <i>"When we are in Ireland, we tip as we do in the States. It works for us, and they never gave the money back!"</i> whilst there remains the assumption that visitors to the US should adopt US norms, i.e "there's only one way to do this and it's the US way".
Well, no there are a number of different systems and each is correct in the country where it is the standard.

"When in Rome..." would seem to be the most apposite of maxims with regard to the subject tipping.

Dr D.

I think that just about wraps things up Dr D.

Okay, I give up. I'm not tipping anywhere outside North America. Except taxis and waitersd. I'll round up.

Dr_DoGood, but what YOU are missing is that customs and feelings change. Maybe it is still not officially a custom to tip in Italy. But many people will report being literally chased halfway down a street in Venice for not leaving a tip! Don't believe that if you don't want to, but waiters in most major tourist cities do EXPECT a tip especially from foreigners. It's just a fact of life. They may not expect them from a local, but they often do expect them and can even turn nasty when they don't get one from a tourist.

And here's another thought. Perhaps when Europeans START tipping like Americans when in the US, then maybe Americans will start tipping like Europeans when in Europe. Trust me, there is a reason thousands of US waiters cringe when they see Europeans seated in their stations. Don't tell me that those "well traveled" Europeans haven't heard it is customary to leave 15 or 20% but yet MANY of them still refuse to tip. A friend who is a server in an upscale major resort area in the US reports that probably half of all European customers he has short tip him, including people who actually thank him for the wonderful service then leave him $1 on a $200 bill.


And another thought is that an American tourist in a Parisian restaurant is really not the same as a local eating there. When a waiter goes out of his way to translate half a menu, discuss the meaning of some terms, chat about other restaurants or attractions near by, and spend four or five times as much time with me as his local clients, I really don't think it's out of line to give him a "reward" for his exceptional and time consuming service when done in a friendly and helpful way. Why on earth would locals object to that tip unless they simply feel that others treating servants better than they do as demeaning them?

I think the real question is not what Americans tip when they are in Ireland, but what locals do. What do the locals tip? Do they tip the bartender, waiter/waitress, bellhop, hotel maid and how much? I want to tip what the locals do. What is typical?

James, that has been covered in the thread.

Some of the subsequent discussion is concerned with telling people like me why we are wrong not to do things the American way.

I copied from above HumptyNumpty whom I assume is from Ireland. Is this the norm?
Bars : leave the pence change
Meals : Again round up, good service 10 - 15%
Taxis round up to nearest note.
Golf caddies : I would - whatever you want.
Cleaning ladies : usually no.

Largely right, except that we don't normally tip bar staff.

I find it odd that a country without a tiping culture would say that for meals you should tip 10-15 pct. That isn't "rounding up", which to me would be the very next euro. 10-15 pct is a proper tip.

So which is it, "rounding up" or a regular tip in Ireland at restaurants? The question is, is there a service charge on the bill or not. I don't want to hear about it going to mgt or not, that isn't addressing the issue which is that in countries with a service charge, the waitstaff is paid more and has better benefits. If I recall, although it's been a while since I was in Ireland, there aren't laws there about this, so some bills was have service included and say so and others will not.

I can make my own sense of what Humpty says about rounding up: work to convenient whole units, because the tip is not as carefully reckoned as it seems to be in the minds of at least some Americans. If a meal comes to €92, round up to €100; if a meal comes to €95, add another fiver and hand over €105. Don't mess about with precise calculations or with coins. [That level of tipping reflects good service. I could go up or down from those levels, and I could even decline to tip - it does not generate confrontation.]

Where Irish restaurants impose service charges, it generally does go to staff, although I sometimes hear grumbles that management-level staff get much bigger cuts than those who serve tables or slave in the kitchen. It seems that very few of the places I like apply service charges; perhaps that is part of why I like them.

"Service included" is not part of our lexicon. Where it is charged, it is itemised on the bill.

Humptynumpty from Scotland where tipping is something one does when giving advice as to how the salmon are running.

The 10-15% is simply for the odd times when things have been so good you want to give more, not obliged to just want to. Probably do it once or twice a year.

Never take bits of change from the bar they wear a hole in your trousers. Although, Gran always used to extol the virtue of looking after the pennies.

Set % service charges are simply a rip off in the UK, their menu prices are usually not less than other restaurants and all staff are paid at least the national minimum wage. % service charges are a simple tool for fiddling the menu prices.

If you leave change on a bar in Ireland it will likely go into the "poor box" ie a charitable donations container. Take this from an ex Irish comely barmaid.

Bartenders just don't get tipped. You can however tip table wait staff 50 cents (euro cents that is).

Not being a smartass...I promise. Can someone please explain why it would be offensive to tip in Ireland? I mean, it's not part of the culture, apparently, but I can't think of any reason why an extra little something to recognize good service would be deemed offensive by the Irish. Educate me, please. We're heading to Ireland in May, and I intended on tipping the usual 15% as I do in the U.S. But if there's a really offensive reason not to, I'm glad to abide by Irish custom. However, "just because no one else does it" is not necessarily a good enough reason for me. Thanks!

Tipping large amounts - sometimes tipping anything at all - suggests the power relationship of master/servant, where the masters can make any demands they want. Appearing to show that you are significantly wealthier than the person providing the service is thougnt patronising and in bad taste. There is sometimes a residual dislike of Americans who do this, because in the past American tourists were often significantly wealthier than the local in the countries they visited.

In Ireland, and in many other countries, we prefer a more equal relationship with other people. There are some situations where a tip is appropriate and not uncommon. Giving a barman a tip of 15% for simply serving you the drinks you had requested at a bar would be thought absurd.

gthenewsgirl

It's not so much that it's likely to offend the individual you are tipping (although you might, if you try to tip someone who owns the bar, for example, they might find you quite patronising As chartley says, once you stray out of standard tipping situations you are moving towards a master/servant attitude).

It's more generally offensive to insist that the countries own way of doing things is wrong and your way is better. It would be wrong of me to come to the US and think 'sod tipping, it's better not to, we don't believe in it' and refuse to do what is right in the US. It's just as wrong of you to come to Europe and think 'sod their system, we know better' and refuse to do what is right in our society. It's just plain rude to ride over another country's culture/sytem because you think yours is better. THAT's why it's offensive.

Also you forget that while you treat your servers/cleaners etc like slave labour, ours get at least the minimum wage (which is reasonable), paid holidays, paid sick, etc etc etc. They aren't reduced to desperately scraping round for tips to earn a living.

gthenewsgirl wrote: "Not being a smartass...I promise. Can someone please explain why it would be offensive to tip in Ireland? ..."

Nobody has said that it is offensive to tip in Ireland. This discussion is about appropriate tipping - essentially, satisfying the reasonable hopes or expectations of some categories of worker.

Why not do things the way we Irish do it?

"Tipping large amounts - sometimes tipping anything at all - suggests the power relationship of master/servant, where the masters can make any demands they want."

That might be what it implies to somebody who lives in Ireland, but it is emphatically not what it implies to someone in the US who is used to tipping as a mechanical act with no thought of power whatsoever. The only time there is an act of power involved in the US is when a customer decides not to leave the automatic tip.

The reason tipping in Europe is confusing to me is that there is nothing mechanical about it. You have to give it thought, and the conflicting opinions I hear from Europeans themselves confuse me even more.

Quote <b>Nikki</b>: <i>"That might be what it implies to somebody who lives in Ireland, but it is emphatically not what it implies to someone in the US who is used to tipping as a mechanical act with no thought of power whatsoever."</i>

That may well be so, but the hypothetical person receiving the hypothetical tip in question resides in Ireland. Therefore that's exactly what the implication is regardless of whether or not the tipper is aware of the inference. And due to the presence of this thread - and very many just like it - the tipper most certainly <i>is</i> now aware of it.

Dr D.

But if tipping is purely a mechanical response for Americans, and has no significance to either giver or receive, then why do you do it? Why do you worry that you haven't done it? Why worry about the exact percentage, and if it is based on the amount before tax, and if the receiver then has to pass part of it to other, unseen, hands?

And why do so many of the posters on this forum agonise over budgets and prices and whether they are being scammed when they will happily pass over significant sums of money in meaningless mechanical gestures?